Poll: I need an honest recommendation!

[Rellik]

Ok. I know there have been many threads about this(if not all) but I am serious about buying my vidcard in 2-3 weeks.

I can´t stand the performance I have now, so please advise.

If you have benchmarks or opinions, please share them. It would be great if only those posted that have a similar system.

Current:
P3 700E (can do 933/966/1ghz)
128MB Crucial Cas 2(will add 256MBwith card)
OS: w2k DX 7
Vidcard: Voodoo3 2000 PCI

I have a very good monitor(samsung 700p plus) and the 2D at 1024/16Bit of the Voodoo is the minimum I accept. I would go with matrox if they would have a product to speak of.

My choices are:

ELSA GLADIAC 32MB GTS
ATI RADEON 64MB DDR

both retail.

Thank you for respones...:Q

 

[Youareaweaklink]

That one is easy...........

Radeon!

(I know the new W2K drivers are still officially BETA, but they are fast and stable)

2d of the Geforce does not compare to the Radeon's.

 

[Taz4158]

No brainer: Radeon.

 

[vlieps]

There is nothing to think about - Radeon (or Voodoo 5). Have You seen the 2D quality of those NVidias cards - awful...

 

[Laz]

I'm running a PIII700 @ 868 with 128 infinion @ cas2 at work with a Samsung 19" (Diamondtron screen). I was running a Geforce DDR in it and replaced it with a Radeon 64meg. I'm quite happy with it, but unfortunatly I don't game on it, so I can't give you any numbers and I run Win ME and not W2K. The 2d is nice and I have tested games on it but never benched them. If image quality is important go with Radeon, if you want raw speed stick with the Geforce and check for driver support in W2K. I replaced my home system with a Radeon first (Geforce was in it) and was so impressed I bought one for the Office.

 

[lsd]

The ELSA gladac has the best 2D for gf2's so you can forget about subpar graphics and you can get it for 1/2 the price of a 64mb radeon (which the gf2 beats in most tests including 32bit). You can get a 64mb GF2 pro for almost the same price of a 64mb radeon.
Oh and the Gladiac has offical win2k drivers unlike some other videocard which can't provide offical non-buggy drivers for a year-old OS.

 

[UsandThem]

I would to with the Radeon.

To quote Tom from www.tomshardware.com


"First of all I'd like to note that Radeon's benchmark results at 16-bit color look worse than they are, simply because numbers can't give you a feel for game play. I understand if some of you might complain about Radeon's 16-bit performance, but the 16-bit scores of Radeon are only an issue if you happen to play at 1280x1024x16 or 1600x1200x16, because Radeon's scores are definitely good enough in all the lower 16-bit color resolutions. In those two resolutions GeForce 2 GTS is clearly and utterly beating the Radeon. This doesn't come as a surprise, becausethe NVIDIA chip does not suffer from memory bandwidth limitation as much in 16-bit color as it suffers in 32-bit color, making it able to reach at least 70% of its claimed fill rate. Radeon's HyperZ is also not too effective in 16-bit color, which is why Radeon's scores are almost identical in 16-bit color as in 32-bit color.

Things are a lot different when you look at the results in 32-bit color. You might be missing the scores at 1152x864 and 1280x1024, but believe me, as soon as the resolution skips 1024x768 Radeon is ahead of the rest, thanks to its HyperZ feature. The same is valid for FSAA. Let's be honest, why should somebody who is so much into image quality that he is using FSAA use anything worse than 32-bit color?

I personally like the Radeon, which is mainly due to the elegant 'HyperZ'-feature with the stupid name. ATi has shown that the memory bandwidth issue can be tackled in a different way than with pure brute force. It's like a light and fast sports car with a much better fuel consumption thanks to smart technology.

Radeon is indeed up there with the top crop when it comes to 32-bit performance and the chip comes with a wealth of new 3D features. Additionally you get the best integrated video, DVD and HDTV solution that money can buy right now. What is NVIDIA supposed to say? 16-bit color is more important than 32-bit color? I don't think so, since it was NVIDIA who told us how important 32-bit color is back in 1999 when 3dfx's Voodoo3 was unable to support that.

I am pretty sure that Radeon's performance will further improve once the drivers have matured a bit. I certainly look forward to the luxurious 'All-In-One' Radeon that's supposed to be released in early fall of this year. The SDR Radeon might mix up NVIDIA's GeForce 2 MX sales as well, because it is meant to offer performance that's close to DDR Radeon for a rather low price.

As I already said, I like the Radeon. I like it because I prefer intelligent technology to brute force. That's why I also prefer a Porsche 911 Turbo to a Dodge Viper."



I still remember when I got my first Geforce DDR card. Drivers were good for it, but nvIDiaIOTS made the cards power consumption out of AGP spec and it would not work with two brand new motherboards. Of course they didn't correct this until the Geforce2 cards. They left the owners of the Geforce SDR and Geforce DDR high and dry.

People who bash the drivers for the Radeon, don't own or even tried the card.

I am running a BETA version of W2K drivers right now and they are great. I am using the AIW version as well, so there is more stuff to my card than the 64MB version.

 

[lsd]

Radeon beating the GF2 in 32bit?
Take another look Benchmarks include q3,mdk and UT. Now if/when the HSR drivers come out, the opengl performance of the gf2 is going to have a laughable lead over the radeon.

 

[han888]

vote for radeon here! geforce 2D is trouble, i can said that because i ever owed 3 geforce card (v6600,v7700,v7100 ) before!

 

[Rellik]

First of, thx for your posts. But now something serious:
I don´t want that NVidia vs ATI bashing starting here. I want
facts and numbers. please could someone tell me what framerates they are getting in what resolution, etc..

I am no fan of FSAA so this is not important. Also, where did lsd get the idea about pricing- I cannot buy this card online,
so I NEED TO BUY IT FROM A LOCAL STORE. here are the prices:

Elsa Gladiac GTS Retail: 273 $
ATI Radeon 64 MB DDR BULK: 305 $
so no halfprice there..
oh, and the pro is not available from ELSA, so the alternatives have weaker 2d.
And the pros cost between: 365 and 500 $

 

[bluemax]

<< Elsa Gladiac GTS Retail: 273 $
ATI Radeon 64 MB DDR BULK: 305 $ >>



Wooo... That's a tough decision. Those are US dollars? You can find those much cheaper in the Suy/Sell section on here, but out of those two it's a tough call.

*ELSA is well known for providing 2D graphics at least as good as ATI's Radeon, so 2D is not a comparison issue here. OTHER nVidia makers are shoddy at 1024x768 and up. :|
(With the exception of Visiontek, I believe, who is less expensive and gets their cards from ELSA, so they share the same awesome 2D.)

*Radeon has a hidden surface removal engine which optimizes performance... the two you're comparing are almost equal for speed in 32-bit colour. The ELSA has the edge for 16-bit colour.

*Rumours are flying that nVidia is experimenting with HSR on the Geforces, giving the GTS another potential ace.

*Radeon has Video In Video Out, if you want to attach a VCR for watching/recording video... I'd like to do this, but I can't afford that card.

A tough call... If you can't take it back after opening it and testing it, I'd go the safer route with the Elsa Gladiac. You won't be disappointed by its quality and has a bit better game and OS compatibility, as well as a bit better sepeed. If you want better features, like VIVO and bump-mapping, go with the Radeon.

IMHO.

 

[KrazyGreeK]

A good review of Radeon and GTS.

Just keep in mind, that radeon drivers are going to be kicking very shortly. Theres a unified driver set coming out for them. There suppose to do what DET3 drivers did for Nvidia.


ASWELL, this a review of there 32meg ver, not 64.

 

[Rellik]

Bluemax, yes those are US Dollars. Buying from the online
forum is NOT AN OPTION. I live in Europe and the import tax and shipping would make this not a wise move. It also takes WAY too long.

The one i´m getting for 305 Bucks is the 64MB bulk version. NOT the VIVO. THE VIVO RETAIL IS 410 Bucks...

 

[JackG]

Hey,KrazyGreek, can you tell us a bit about your 32DDR on your celeron, benchmarks,etc? I'm thinking of trying one on a celeron500@562.
Thanks!

 

[Dark4ng3l]

Hmmm thats a 64mb radeon against a 32mb GeForce2? Take the damn radeon.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Rellik, I took the Radeon 32MB DDR over the GeForce 2. From Buy.com I was able to get the Radeon for $147 incl. S&amp;H. If I had the $30 off coupon, I could have gotten it for $132. An OEM Geforce 2 goes for about $160.

The ELSA GLADIAC 32MB GTS (Retail) goes for about $250 on-line. Your shop selling it for $273 is not a bad price then. (Hey, they have to make some money, right? After all they are not a dot.com.) The retail Radeon 64MB goes for about the same price ($250). All $$ are US $$.

Being in the U.S., I cannot answer your concerns about ordering on-line. Perhaps S&amp;H eats up any advantage of on-line ordering. I do not know.

The Radeon is slower in 16 bit by a long shot. It also loses to the GeForce 2 GTS (with the new Detonator 3 drivers) in 32 bit, but not by much. The Radeon also has some performance lost when used in Win2K.
The Radeon you want to buy has no VIVO, costs more, etc. So why would you buy it?

Look, I am a fan of ATI, but only because they win on the price/performance-features curve here in the U.S. If your price curve is different, then go with the GTS.

As to CPU scaling, Dark4ng3l, Anand has an article showing that a 433 MHz Celeron using 640x480x32 achieved 62 fps. My 300A o/c to 450 gets 64 fps at that resolution.

 

[Noriaki]

Personally I would go with the Gladiac. I had a 64MB Vivo Radeon and hated it. The drivers sucked horribly for it....I had problems with 2 of my favourite games and Win2000 performance is sub par. I suppose it's possible they've fixed this but they still haven't fixed my TV-Wonder's Win2k drivers so I don't have much confidence in their driver support.

I'd go with Elsa.

 

[BFG10K]

I vote for the Radeon. If 2D is important you can't go wrong with it, especially since it's almost as good Matrox's.

LSD:
Now if/when the HSR drivers come out, the opengl performance of the gf2 is going to have a laughable lead over the radeon.

At the expense of image quality, no doubt.

 

[Taz4158]

<< Now if/when the HSR drivers come out, the opengl performance of the gf2 is going to have a laughable lead over the radeon >>



LSD: Another deluded response from you. Each day your name here makes more sense.

 

[Sugadaddy]

I'd go for the gladiac. 2D on the Elsa cards is very good (best of all nvidia cards), and honestly I think people are paranoid about nvidia's 2D quality. All these people are saying 2d SUCKS, IT'S HORRIBLE. Have you even tried a gts before saying that?

I have creative GTS running 1154x768x32 @100hz and the 2D is perfect IMO. It does get a little fuzzy over that res, but I think my monitor doesn't really help...

The GTS is cheaper in your case, and you're getting a retail card instead of an OEM. The performance will be very close, and the GTS will have a slight edge. As for the 64MB instead of 32MB of memory, it doesn't make any difference in today's games and won't for a good time to come. I can't speak about drivers because I've never owned a Radeon, but I don't think they're better than Nvidia on this aspect.

 

[Rellik]

Sugadaddy and lifeguard, thx for your responses. Now this thread is making progress. To clear a few things up:

Those prices I told you about are the current ones in my city. They
will probably move down a little by the time I will buy(last week in january) However, I want to ask you guys again: Are there any users
of either card(ELSA or RADEON 64) that have a Intel 700-933 system
with w2k? And did you try one of the following games:

- Colin McRea Rally 2.0 demo(supports T&amp;L, EMBM, CUBIC EM)
- Q3 engine games like FAKK 2 , ST: Voyager or Alice
- Sacrifice(which needs a 64MB card for full details i.e. you cannot
turn all eye candy on with 32. Hell, i have 16MB and I am forced to go medium)
- UT

And to the Radeon users: How much have the new drivers improved performance? The initial reviews had really low numbers compared to a gts and I was wondering if they improved by more then 10 percent(20 would be great)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I sold my 64MB Prophet2 to use a Radeon VIVO (retail).
One thing I'll tell you about the OEM is that it's clocked 10% slower and has 6ns RAM on it it rather than the 5.5ns.
The image quality of the Radeon is EXCELLENT.
It is slower than the GTS was, but not at UT. (UT runs a lot smoother)
I don't benchmark so I can't tell you differences in driver revisions.

 

[RobsTV]

For those in the US, the Elsa Gladiac GeForce2 GTS card has now dropped to around $150 (Full Retail) at many online venders (or less with coupon). The last couple days you could have got one for $125-$130 including delivery from Staples. 2d quality is just as good as ATI and 3dfx with the Elsa and Visiontek cards, which is perfect. Visiontek supplies Elsa, not the other way around. Also, Visiontek is Made In The USA.