Poll: Menachem Begin....Anwar Sadat....Who misses these men of peace?

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
81
Anwar Sadat was a former leader of Egypt...rode in on the coattails of the great Gamal Abdahl Nasser...

Turned leader in '70 and attacked Israel in '73 on Yom Kippur...won back part of the Sinai I believe...

Later that decade, he brokered a peace with the Knesset and was assassinated for it.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
81
Interesting...Palestine-Israel threads get 50+ replies but at the same time, no one knows enough about key figures in the background of the conflict to have a discussion...

<==
 

Tiger

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,312
0
0
You've got that right.
Just about every Arab neighbor of Israel's has negotiated a peace with them. Notable exceptions being Syria (hot bed of terrorists) and Lebanon (who's in charge there anyhow?)
It's too bad people forget that Begin and Sadat we're mortal enemies at one time and still found a way to peacefully co-exist.
The Arabs and Israeli's need someone of their courage to stand up and end this crap.
The only problem is they'd end up dead, probably from some suicide bomber.

 

junkyardDawg

Senior member
Oct 11, 2001
300
0
0
i think the memory of what happened to Sadat is the main reason Arafat will never make peace with Israel
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
81


<< You've got that right.
Just about every Arab neighbor of Israel's has negotiated a peace with them. Notable exceptions being Syria (hot bed of terrorists) and Lebanon (who's in charge there anyhow?)
It's too bad people forget that Begin and Sadat we're mortal enemies at one time and still found a way to peacefully co-exist.
The Arabs and Israeli's need someone of their courage to stand up and end this crap.
The only problem is they'd end up dead, probably from some suicide bomber.
>>


...and Iraq of course who shares no border w/them
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,730
16
81


<<

<< You've got that right.
Just about every Arab neighbor of Israel's has negotiated a peace with them. Notable exceptions being Syria (hot bed of terrorists) and Lebanon (who's in charge there anyhow?)
It's too bad people forget that Begin and Sadat we're mortal enemies at one time and still found a way to peacefully co-exist.
The Arabs and Israeli's need someone of their courage to stand up and end this crap.
The only problem is they'd end up dead, probably from some suicide bomber.
>>


...and Iraq of course who shares no border w/them
>>



Actually of their arab neighbors, only Egypt and Jordan have treaties.
 

cmdavid

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
4,114
0
0
Anwar Sadat is the president of Egyp whom signed the treaty w/ the US (Jimmy Carter) known as the Camp David Agreement.. he was later assassinated by a terrorist group that was against this treaty (edit: along w/ the treaty w/ israel) ....he made this treaty w/out the consent of most of the country, but knew it would be good for the country... as a matter of fact, the leader of the terrorist group that had him assassinated is now Osama Bin Laden's right hand man.. you may know who I'm talking about, he's Osama's doctor from Egypt, he was in a few of the pictures next to Bin Laden. ( searched on google but couldnt find one w/ him in it). I cant remember his name off the top of my head, but he was arrested and put in jail for awhile in Egypt, then i dont know if he was released or if he escaped, but everybody seemed to have forgotten about him until he joined up w/ bin laden....
and yes he is missed by his country, but God knows that Hosni Mubarak is in a very tough situation, but I think hes doing a decent job..

edit: found an article on the doctor, brains behind osama bin laden
 

IJump

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2001
4,640
11
76
You want some history, look at the latest copy (I think it is the latest, maybe the one before the latest). It will take you back to the crusades..... interesting reading........

I was disappointed that it left off where it did.....
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,730
16
81


<< Anwar Sadat is the president of Egyp whom signed the treaty w/ the US (Jimmy Carter) known as the Camp David Agreement.. he was later assassinated by a terrorist group that was against this treaty (edit: along w/ the treaty w/ israel) ....he made this treaty w/out the consent of most of the country, but knew it would be good for the country... as a matter of fact, the leader of the terrorist group that had him assassinated is now Osama Bin Laden's right hand man.. you may know who I'm talking about, he's Osama's doctor from Egypt, he was in a few of the pictures next to Bin Laden. ( searched on google but couldnt find one w/ him in it). I cant remember his name off the top of my head, but he was arrested and put in jail for awhile in Egypt, then i dont know if he was released or if he escaped, but everybody seemed to have forgotten about him until he joined up w/ bin laden....
and yes he is missed by his country, but God knows that Hosni Mubarak is in a very tough situation, but I think hes doing a decent job..
>>



I believe you are referring to Ayman Al-Zawahiri

here is a pic of him and Bin Laden together.
 

cmdavid

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
4,114
0
0


<<

<< Anwar Sadat is the president of Egyp whom signed the treaty w/ the US (Jimmy Carter) known as the Camp David Agreement.. he was later assassinated by a terrorist group that was against this treaty (edit: along w/ the treaty w/ israel) ....he made this treaty w/out the consent of most of the country, but knew it would be good for the country... as a matter of fact, the leader of the terrorist group that had him assassinated is now Osama Bin Laden's right hand man.. you may know who I'm talking about, he's Osama's doctor from Egypt, he was in a few of the pictures next to Bin Laden. ( searched on google but couldnt find one w/ him in it). I cant remember his name off the top of my head, but he was arrested and put in jail for awhile in Egypt, then i dont know if he was released or if he escaped, but everybody seemed to have forgotten about him until he joined up w/ bin laden....
and yes he is missed by his country, but God knows that Hosni Mubarak is in a very tough situation, but I think hes doing a decent job..
>>



I believe you are referring to Ayman Al-Zawahiri
>>



yep thanks.. also added a link to a story in my above post...
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Interesting...Palestine-Israel threads get 50+ replies but at the same time, no one knows enough about key figures in the background of the conflict to have a discussion...

I think sad is a more apt description. Ignorance abounds in this place.

Begin and Sadat commited some serious dirty deeds but at least they both had the foresight and personal fortitude to speak the basic truth . . . the fighting will end when everybody is dead or we agree to stop.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
You're looking at history with rose colored glasses. The only times in the history of the Middle East that any sustained period of peace has occurred, is when one single power bloc (always an outside power at that, such as the Romans, Ottomans, etc.) seized the area by military force and ruled it with an iron fist. Yes, the Camp David accords stopped the violence between two parties in the region, but there are hundreds more which are still essentially at war with each other. With the sole exception of Israel, and at times Iraq, the whole of the Arab peninsula is little more advanced than it was 100 years ago. It's just that nowadays, the tribes have flags and call themselves nations.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
You're looking at history with rose colored glasses. The only times in the history of the Middle East that any sustained period of peace has occurred, is when one single power bloc (always an outside power at that, such as the Romans, Ottomans, etc.) seized the area by military force and ruled it with an iron fist.

Hmm, replace Middle East with Europe and you've described much of the last millenium.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126


<< Hmm, replace Middle East with Europe and you've described much of the last millenium. >>



Yeah, with the small difference that Europe went through this little phase called "Enlightenment" about 200 years ago, and the vast majority of the continent adopted a few newfangled ideas such as democracy, human rights, universal suffrage... ya know, all the stuff that the Arab peninsula lacks?
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
I think the Enlightenment was a great achievement for Europe. It's a shame it didn't stick. Maybe they should have tried peyote . . .
And if I'm not mistaken Europe fostered two global wars in the 20th century that resulted in millions of deaths. Democratic societies, universal suffrage, and human rights existed in many places throughout the world before Europe "discovered" them kinda like that whole colonization thing.

Unfortunately, the Middle East is not a particularly good place for those values today. But even Iran and Saudi Arabia have democratic legislatures. Egypt has a Texas style democracy. Most people vote unfortunately they all think alike. Turkey has a secular, democratic government. Jordan has a monarchy with democratic legislature.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Qatar: Power held by amir and royal family. Political parties banned, and no open opposition tolerated.

Damn that sux. But an interesting colonial history . . . read Europeans.

Bahrain: No political parties. Senior members of Al Khalifa and other notable families dominate political and economic decision making.

Damn that sux. But an interesting colonial history . . . read Europeans.

Oman: trust me, familiar story

Yemen: The constitution adopted in 1991, which was similar to North Yemen's 1970 constitution, provided for a 301-member elected legislature, called the Council of Deputies . . .In September 1994, at the end of the country's civil war, the Council of Deputies voted to adopt major reforms to the unification constitution. The amended constitution declares Sharia (Islamic law) as the basis of all legislation and describes the economy as market-based. The reforms also abolished the five-member Presidential Council and stipulated that the presidency be decided by universal suffrage, with no one permitted to hold office for more than two terms. Ali Abdullah Saleh has been president since 1990.

Kuwait: Al Sabah family dominates political events, but several prominent merchant families also powerful. Opposition, independent, and Islamist elements becoming stronger in early 1990s. Political parties illegal.

Damn that sux. But an interesting colonial history . . . read Europeans.

Saudi Arabia: Islam was a pervasive social and political force in Saudi Arabia. Because there was no separation of religion and state, the political role of religious scholars, or ulama, was second in importance to that of the ruling Al Saud family. The close association between the ulama, advocating the strict Islamic interpretations of Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab, and the Al Saud originated in the eighteenth century and provided the dynasty with its primary source of legitimacy. The ulama acted as a conservative force in maintaining the traditional social and political values that characterized Saudi Arabia in the early 1990s.

Although Saudi Arabia was established as a country based on a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, the discovery of vast petroleum deposits led to significant changes in the role of religion. Since the 1950s, when oil revenues became abundant, Saudi rulers have sought to reap the economic benefits derived from oil resources while trying to minimize the political and social impact of change. Nevertheless, the transformation of Saudi Arabia from a relatively isolated, predominantly rural country into a wealthy, urbanized nation hosting tens of thousands of foreign workers inevitably produced tensions. From a political perspective, the most significant development was the emergence of a group of middle-class professionals. This important and highly educated group of Saudis generally resented the lack of opportunities for citizen participation in politics. Beginning in the 1960s, they tried to pressure the monarchy into creating an elective representative assembly. Saudi kings resisted demands for political liberalization by strengthening regime ties with the ulama, who tended to distrust the notion of popular government because of the implicit assumption that manmade legislation could be equal to sacred law.








 
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