[POLL] Multi Monitor Related

[Cookie Monster]

The situation currently is that Im the type of PC user who when working on a report/project will have alot of minimized windows on the task bar + lots of applications open/running. This usually means that there are about 15+ various apps (Altera/modelsim/word/excel/firefox/protel and what not) minimized on the taskbar while 2~3 apps are open up in the main window. (This is a habit that gets worse as my PC gets faster!)

Even with my machine, 4GB is not enough and vista stutters when it tries to free the cached memory when Im working on 3D modelling/simulation/some math calculations what not. So im probably going to grab 4 more GBs of ram when I get my break in the coming week.

Now ive been considering to go for a multi monitor setup, or a single large monitor. My colleagues say multi monitors is the best when it comes to the kind of work I do. But I want opinions about this. I was contemplating on getting 2xDell 2209W or a single Dell 2709W. What do you guys think?

And if I go multi monitor setup, which company has the better support? I dont have much experience using multi monitors before, so when it comes to driver support my knowledge is quite thin. Since in the coming weeks, Ill be replacing my HD4850 with either an HD4890 or a GTX275 depending on which provides better multi monitor support.

All feedbacks are appreciated.

edit - Actually an update after doing some more research.

Here are the things I found:
-nVIEW does not work in Vista which is a shame.
-Screens flicker due to power saving modes on ATi and nVIDIA cards. (Can users with dual monitor setups confirm this? imagine having an GTX275 idling at full 3d clocks 24/7 :shock
-Solution to the above problem is by keeping the memory/core speeds constant. (Through BIO flash)
-ATi is weak when it comes to various modes for dual monitor setups (like having different resolutions and such)

It would be awesome if there are more user feedback on this aspect of dual monitors. I dont have much time to wrestle with driver issues and dual monitor problems so I need to understand the kind of pros/cons and issues related to dual monitors very well before i pull the trigger.

My trigger finger is getting really itchy.

 

[Schmide]

You need to add a option for equal. I've used both and I think they're kind of equal.

 

[Tab3076]

Do all of the applications have the same priority or are they all equal? If you have at least one that is always open I'd get two and leave that application always open on one of the monitors and switch the two on the other display.

 

[Blazer7]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
... in the coming weeks, Ill be replacing my HD4850 with either an HD4890 or a GTX275 depending on which provides better multi monitor support.

Here's an interesting article about the upcoming 275. Nvidia hoodwinks reviewers again with mythical GT275s

Yes I know it's Charlie again but it makes you wonder.

I think it would be prudent to wait a bit longer before replacing your VGA. Just my 2c.

 

[lavaheadache]

I would have voted but there is no option for 3 way.

 

[WildW]

I used to multi-monitor at home but more recently I've got a 22" widescreen and find I don't have need to do it anymore, at home at least. Technically I have two monitors, but the second just gets used to play DVDs so it's more like a TV than a 2nd screen for working.

Once your main monitor gets past being small I find that you have trouble placing the screens so that they're both usable. With a 22" screen in front of me, the other screen has to be too far away to really work on - I end up just dragging whatever window I'm using to the main screen, which isn't much better than just minimizing.

My coding machine at work has two 17" LCDs side by side - those are close enough together to comfortably work with either, but I'd give them up for a single big screen.

 

[Burrich]

At work we had the same situation a couple years ago. 24" monitor or 2 19" monitors. We went with the 24" (when they were $1000). Honestly, I wish we'd went 2 19" monitors. The work I do requires me to have a couple (or 4, or more) windows open. If you're working with 2 primary windows and you want to have them both up then you're required to tile them vertically. It definitely works, but each window fits so nice in a 19" monitor (and it's especially quick to just maximize within the screen you're on), that using two monitors would make both look quite nice.

If you're doing a lot of stuff, I'm a sucker for dual monitors. Single monitor solutions are nice for more home use where you're single application centric.

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: WildW
I used to multi-monitor at home but more recently I've got a 22" widescreen and find I don't have need to do it anymore, at home at least. Technically I have two monitors, but the second just gets used to play DVDs so it's more like a TV than a 2nd screen for working.

Once your main monitor gets past being small I find that you have trouble placing the screens so that they're both usable. With a 22" screen in front of me, the other screen has to be too far away to really work on - I end up just dragging whatever window I'm using to the main screen, which isn't much better than just minimizing.

My coding machine at work has two 17" LCDs side by side - those are close enough together to comfortably work with either, but I'd give them up for a single big screen.

how is this not useable? Sorry about the quality but it's just a quick phone pick

 

[imported_wired247]

As a graduate student who works a lot on the computer, often I have something like 1 excel file and 1 word file open. Or one PDF and one word file. Or ___________ and _________________. In short, 2 monitors has increased my productivity quite a bit when doing actual work. For casual browsing / computer use, it makes no difference to me. But having 2 fullscreen windows open simultaneously is perfect for doing real work.

I've done it with ati/nvidia and it's really Windows that makes the difference at the end of the day. It seems to work fine either way. There are some quirky things about it, for instance Powerpoint can act a bit weird on dual monitors but there are settings you can tweak that will fix it.

My advice would be to get a video card with 2 DVI ports. My desktop PC at work is an anemic Pentium 4 3GHz with ati x600 / 256mb of video ram, 1 DVI and 1 VGA port. The VGA port definitely puts out a lower quality image: I have 2 identical monitors and the one hooked up to DVI is quite a bit better looking and less glitchy.

 

[aigomorla]

SLI if you do use it, wont scale on the second monitor, and it only works dual monitor sli on the newer drivers. Even then your limited on that second monitor.

Xfire does scale on the second monitor.

To put things short, you cant game on the second monitor on sli while you can on xfire.

thats if you ever think about dual card setups in the future.

 

[Lonyo]

Dual is glorious, especially for increasing productivity (based on personal experience and I think some user studies which also show this).
Personally I would go with an NV card, because from past experience (some of which may not be valid with Vista etc), they have more options/support when it comes to multi monitor setups.
My 7800GT was great for my duals, my HD4850 doesn't do anything wrong when it comes to the basics, but NV offered more (grids, with XP spanned 3D, buttons to quickly move windows from one monitor to another etc etc etc - little things that aren't essential but make the experience nicer). But AMD offered better value for money when I upgraded so I went that route.

 

[MrK6]

I've been using a 30" monitor for a couple months now and it's probably the best thing I've ever bought for my computer. The desktop real estate is fantastic. For example, I can have over 20 task bar buttons going across, so there's no sweat in window management when I'm writing a paper or doing other work. I always shied away from dual monitors because of the divider and the loss of vertical height. However, if you do go dual monitor I'd recommend going with an ATI set-up, their drivers are better for it.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
SLI if you do use it, wont scale on the second monitor, and it only works dual monitor sli on the newer drivers. Even then your limited on that second monitor.

Xfire does scale on the second monitor.

To put things short, you cant game on the second monitor on sli while you can on xfire.

thats if you ever think about dual card setups in the future.

You can use more than two displays with SLI with the 180 series drivers, you just need displays 3+ to be hooked up to a 3rd card that is not part of the SLI set.

Example from my setup

Do you have any links for the spanning on Crossfire, Aigormorla? I didn't think either vendor supported spans with WDDM at all.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: wired247
As a graduate student who works a lot on the computer, often I have something like 1 excel file and 1 word file open. Or one PDF and one word file. Or ___________ and _________________. In short, 2 monitors has increased my productivity quite a bit when doing actual work. For casual browsing / computer use, it makes no difference to me. But having 2 fullscreen windows open simultaneously is perfect for doing real work.

I can relate to this. When I was wiritng a design report not to long ago, I had quite a few /PDF/excel/docs opened and found having one monitor was limiting my productivity, so im leaning toward dual monitors at this point in time.

Originally posted by: aigomorla
SLI if you do use it, wont scale on the second monitor, and it only works dual monitor sli on the newer drivers. Even then your limited on that second monitor.

Xfire does scale on the second monitor.

To put things short, you cant game on the second monitor on sli while you can on xfire.

thats if you ever think about dual card setups in the future.

I dont think Ill be needing SLi, or Xfire. Im not much of a gamer, and not enough time to play atm and probably in the nearby future, but I doubt the games of my interest e.g diablo3 would require multi GPU setups anyway.

Originally posted by: Burrich
If you're doing a lot of stuff, I'm a sucker for dual monitors. Single monitor solutions are nice for more home use where you're single application centric.

Yes, I am a multi applicataion centric

Ive had the general impression that Multi monitors run better on NV hardware, but this was back in the XP days. Im not so sure about vista.

Pretty much my main goal of this possible upgrade is to increase my productivity.

Thanks the feedback guys Keep them coming

 

[Wreckage]

I solved this problem by running 2 computers (although my desk supports 2 keyboards/mice).

 

[dawza]

IMO, multi monitors will be more effective and economical. I work regularly with several spanned spreadsheets containing data, PDFs for references, documents for notes/writing, and a browser window or two. It is much, much easier to keep track of things with > 2 monitors.

There are also times when an application (i.e. PowerPoint) can only have a single instance opened, in which case, I need to run a second instance in a VM if I want to compare two sets of data side-by-side. Having separate monitors for each has obvious organizational advantages- you will probably find yourself adding HDDs and memory in proportion to the number of monitors/VMs you run.

Given the limitations of horizontal desk space, as well as in the interest of minimizing head movement, I strongly suggest you go for non-widescreen panels, preferably all of the same panel type, with identical or very close pixel pitch, and certainly all with the same vertical resolution. This prevents odd things from happening when you tile windows across screens, and allows you to go triple/quad with ease. 20" 1600x1200 4:3 are ideal for this, as you can run them in multiple, use them in tandem with a 1920x1200 24", or rotate them into portrait to match up with 2560x1600.

As far as NV vs. ATI, I have no experience with ATI, but have built several workstations with NV cards without issue. If using Vista, just make sure both cards can run using the same driver. For example, at the lab I have three 16x12 screens- two are hooked up to a 7800GT (PCIe x16) and the third to a 6200 (PCI). I could support a fourth via VGA, but that would just be showing off

Finally, I consider UltraMon to be a necessity when going multi-mon. You will know why once you try it out.

 

[LokutusofBorg]

I am a programmer, and am always running about a dozen programs at once while working. I started using dual monitors some time ago and I will never (happily) go back to a single monitor, no matter how large. Having the monitors be the same size and resolution is important, as different sizes gets annoying fast.

At work I have dual 16x10 monitors, and at home I have dual 19x12. Ignore the advice to go 4:3 unless you're going with three monitors. Dual widescreen is the shiznat.

I've never used Ultramon as it costs money and I'm cheap, but I found Winsplit Revolution several months ago and cannot believe I ever got by without it.

Oh, and I've only ever used nVidia cards, but they've never given me problems running dual monitors. I make sure to get dual DVI cards though. Running an LCD on a VGA connection is tragic, IMO.

 

[WildW]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
how is this not useable? Sorry about the quality but it's just a quick phone pick

Can't deny that's pretty =)

It really depends what you're doing. . . if the second screen is just some reference material it can be very useful, but I find it very uncomfortable to actually work on a screen that isn't directly in front of me looking straight ahead over the keyboard. It just feels weird.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks for the replie fellow AT peeps.

Im leaning toward the multi monitor option since it seems like this is the best route for my situation. Basically if I do go this path, its going to be 2 x Dell 2209W.

Originally posted by: dawza
Finally, I consider UltraMon to be a necessity when going multi-mon. You will know why once you try it out.

What exactly is ultra mon? something like winsplit revolution?

 

[dawza]

Ultramon is a multi-monitor management utility. The author offers free, fully functional 30-day trials.

Wiki link here

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks for the inputs. I think my mind is made up now, so the next paycheck ill be getting, theres a high % of me getting dual monitors. TIl then, I gotta decide which card I want since both GTX275/HD4890 seem pretty even, although the latter @ 1GHz is in GTX285 territory.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Actually an update after doing some more research.

Here are the things I found:
-nVIEW does not work in Vista which is a shame.
-Screens flicker due to power saving modes on ATi and nVIDIA cards. (Can users with dual monitor setups confirm this? imagine having an GTX275 idling at full 3d clocks 24/7 :shock
-Solution to the above problem is by keeping the memory/core speeds constant. (Through BIO flash)
-ATi is weak when it comes to various modes for dual monitor setups (like having different resolutions and such)

It would be awesome if there are more user feedback on this aspect of dual monitors. I dont have much time to wrestle with driver issues and dual monitor problems so I need to understand the kind of pros/cons and issues related to dual monitors very well before i pull the trigger.

My trigger finger is getting really itchy.

 

[n7]

I've been using dual displays for quite a few years now, with a bunch of different nV & ATi cards.

I've not really found any real issues with multi-monitor support with either company other than a few issues with nV drivers not supporting portrait mode, but IIRC, they were usually beta drivers.

I've never had problems with ATI cards not supporting the resolutions i wanted, but i've used only 1280x1024, 1600x1200, 1200x1600, & 2560x1600 combination.

Never seen screen flicker, but i think Vista runs cards @ 3D all the time, or at least it that's what Rivatuner says for all my nV cards.

You will absolutely need to get Ultramon IMO.
I could not live without it.

Obviously you should be getting dual displays, not just one, though TBH, i consider 3360x1050 kinda limited (too little vertical viewing area), which is why i run 3760x1600.

 

[Cookie Monster]

So basically, your GTX280 has been running at its full 3d clocks never since you've been using dual monitors? So basically one has to compromise power play features in order to gain an increase in productivity and power consumption/heat.

And if I was to use ultramon, all the display configurations are done through that 3rd party software or do I need to fiddle around with both the nV control panel/ultramon?

Thanks for the feedback btw.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
So basically, your GTX280 has been running at its full 3d clocks never since you've been using dual monitors? So basically one has to compromise power play features in order to gain an increase in productivity and power consumption/heat.

And if I was to use ultramon, all the display configurations are done through that 3rd party software or do I need to fiddle around with both the nV control panel/ultramon?

Thanks for the feedback btw.

Shouldn't be a problem, sometimes when a new card model comes out, it takes a few driver revisions before they get the power management working right (wrt to the GTX 275 issue you mentioned). My GTX 260s throttle down fine in Vista.

With regard to Nview, Ultramon provides most of the same functionality on Vista. Spans are no longer supported for any graphics vendor with WDDM in Vista and Win7.