Poll on abortion in case of 12 year old girl

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: Speedy3D!

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

Not really. Abortion is a gray area, hence the constant and vigorous debate about it.

how is it a gray area? either you kill your child or let it live. either way the mother has reall messed up her children and deserves to be beaten.

You see absolutely no difference between a little girl who was sold into prostitution and raped, and some woman who wants to use abortion like it is birth control?

 

[nageov3t]

is it viable outside the womb? if so, than it would be murder.

otherwise, I have no problems with abortions.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: loki8481
is it viable outside the womb? if so, than it would be murder.

otherwise, I have no problems with abortions.

What do you mean by viable?

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: loki8481
is it viable outside the womb? if so, than it would be murder.

otherwise, I have no problems with abortions.

What do you mean by viable?

most people would say "able to live in a normally oxygenated environment without the aid of machines"

 

[glorifiedg790]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: Speedy3D!

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

Not really. Abortion is a gray area, hence the constant and vigorous debate about it.

how is it a gray area? either you kill your child or let it live. either way the mother has reall messed up her children and deserves to be beaten.

You see absolutely no difference between a little girl who was sold into prostitution and raped, and some woman who wants to use abortion like it is birth control?

hmmm why would you say that? I was saying its not a gray area. Either you kill the child or you dont, what is so confusing about that. What I said is true regardless of rape.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

Exactly.

Even in cases of death for mother I side on baby right to live. Simple numbers game at that point. Mom has maybe 30 productive years ahead while baby has much more.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: Speedy3D!

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

Not really. Abortion is a gray area, hence the constant and vigorous debate about it.

how is it a gray area? either you kill your child or let it live. either way the mother has reall messed up her children and deserves to be beaten.

You see absolutely no difference between a little girl who was sold into prostitution and raped, and some woman who wants to use abortion like it is birth control?

No the end result is the same. Innocent = mudered.

What difference does it make if babys murdered for reasons conveinance or an emotional appeal for the babymomma? How can it be right in one and not the other?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Somebody very bad needs to happen to the mother. I can't quite think of a suitable punishment for that kind of tradegy though

I'm expecting dmcowen's "red state!" comments at any minute now. :roll:

To answer the question. Yes, an abortion would be warranted at her age.

Well you beat me to the Red State comment, that aside I disagree partly with your "solution".

Seriously unless the 12 yr old faces danger from the "fetus" at some point why abort it?

The choice should be up to the one pregnant including in this case a 12 yr old.

There are many families that would gladly adopt the child if the 12 yr old's family is not capable of supporting the baby.

Obviously in this case that is the case since the Mother is clearly not even suitable enough to be a Mother herself.

It's a sad situation but the decision should be for the one carrying the fetus.

Notice I said fetus not person.

That's where the Radical Fundamentalists get nuts, they give the same rights to a fetus that is not even thinking yet as we do up until the Schiavo case happened where the adult is back to a fetus state.

If she decides she does not want to go through with carrying full term all others should respect her decision, period.

Who the hell do people think they are making a decision for someone else's body???

Especially men.

so you wouldnt mind if you were terminated as a fetus?

strange. you wouldnt be alive if you were aborted.

Fetus's can think its just we don't remember any of it.

I know if I new of abortion when I was in the womb I would want my chance at life.
Since the girls is 12 and the Mother a monster she should give it up for adoption.

Look at what you wrote. I bolded it so it would stare at you.

If you can't remember then what difference does it make???

 

[glorifiedg790]

The difference is a whole life gone. Never existed. You would not think. You would be dead. I see you are trying to say that if you can't think then you won't care if you were aborted. Let me ask you...now that you CAN think would you have liked to be aborted?

 

[StageLeft]

I'm sorry I can't reply directly to some responses, but abortion is only a gray area because our society, which hates accepting things it's done as final and too-late-too-change has made it that way. Lots of people have children they don't want. They get pregnant, and for some reason or another don't get an abortion (couldn't afford it or whatever, who cares...). Then the kid comes out and they throw it in a garbage bin. We don't allow them to kill those kids, and it's illegal. So in these cases, regardless of why or how the mother got pregnant, we put the life of the child ahead of the mother. It's not "her choice" to kill it, because it isn't hers. Yes, she made it, but it isn't her or her's to dictate the future of in this case.

The difference between a fetus and a born child is merely that there is a layer of stomach fat, abdominal muscle, and uterus separating that pre-born child from the outside world. A 39 week old baby, pre-birth, is just as much of a baby as it will be at 39 weeks and 1 day, the day it's born. That fleshy barrier is really rather meaningless in terms of dictating its worth as a human being or not. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous. All but the most savagely pro-choice people would agree with that, which is why no abortions are allowed up to that point (I don't think late-term are).

So now that we're in agreement with the past two paragraphs, the entire "abortion gray area" is merely "At what point is this mess of cells a life, or sentient or whatever?" The fact is that it's a life immediately, according to biolgical science. Of course it's not sentient for quite some time--no smarter than a lone heart or bicep muscle or piece of wood. So presumably most people who condone abortion at some stage hold to the sentient lifeform standard. That's fine. Now the problem I have is: if it's not ok for a woman to abort a kid based on her whim under normal circumstances, how is it ok if she was raped? Are you "killing" it in the first case, but in the second it's justifiable? Or is it not kiling it in the second, in which case why your problem with the first?

9 months, then 12 hours cranking out a kid, then forget it. That's all a mother has to do. If you hold to the idea that this is a real life, how is that comparitively minimal discomfort worth terminating an otherwise functional human being?

I'd like to hear from people who say it's the woman's choice in the area of wanton smoking and alcoholism while pregnant. Is that ok? Surely most would disagree. Why? It's her body isn't it? The fact is no, it's not. When you're pregnant you are responsible for your body and your child's. Once it comes out you can go right ahead and throw it at a hospital front desk and drive home if you like.

 

[glorifiedg790]

I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

living kills even more

 

[glorifiedg790]

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

living kills even more

thats compared to 6 billion people. not to mention you just supported what I said. Yes living does kill apparently. What you said is so twisted. Yes living people murder. They also murder their children. So basically you are saying why live? its pointless....you should be dead.

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

living kills even more

thats compared to 6 billion people. not to mention you just supported what I said. Yes living does kill apparently. What you said is so twisted. Yes living people murder. They also murder their children. So basically you are saying why live? its pointless....you should be dead.

more than 90% of fertilized eggs eventually die on their own. we should put a stop to that too

 

[glorifiedg790]

What??????

 

[Buickbeast]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I'd like to hear from people who say it's the woman's choice in the area of wanton smoking and alcoholism while pregnant. Is that ok? Surely most would disagree. Why? It's her body isn't it? The fact is no, it's not. When you're pregnant you are responsible for your body and your child's. Once it comes out you can go right ahead and throw it at a hospital front desk and drive home if you like.

Right now, it is the woman's choice. I don't see any cops' arresting pregnant smokers, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

If they're smoking crack!

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: datalink7

hat's where the Radical Fundamentalists get nuts

I know personally no less than 6 Atheist's who are Pro-Life. In fact, that is more Atheist's who are Pro-Life than I know Atheist's who are Pro-Choice.

Don't assume it is only religious fundamentalists that are Pro-Life.

Thank you for pointing out that pro-life doesn't always = theist. Atheists for Life even have a website.
Of course you'll never find such people interviewed in the media, etc. Can't break the perception that all pro-lifers are Bible-thumping fundamentalist radicals, after all! Some people just find it easier to take on strawmen rather than engage in real debate.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

Exactly. At least someone's thinking clearly.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

living kills even more

Amen

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
I don't care its a religious site, its a true statistic. what could have been your best friend

living kills even more

thats compared to 6 billion people. not to mention you just supported what I said. Yes living does kill apparently. What you said is so twisted. Yes living people murder. They also murder their children. So basically you are saying why live? its pointless....you should be dead.

more than 90% of fertilized eggs eventually die on their own. we should put a stop to that too

Oh the noesssss

Please SAVE THE CELLS !!!

 

[aka1nas]

I don't usually post in P&N, but in this case I would like to bring up that it is very likely unsafe for a girl that young to be having a baby and there is increased chance that the baby would be born with birth defects and/or the mother's life would be endangered.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

No, because what if she fully hasn't matured enough for her body to be able to take on 9 months of hard work? IMO if the women's life is threatened by a child, an abortion is what SHOULD happen. As much "pro life" I am (that is as applied toward myself. I would NEVER want my wife to get an abortion if an accident happened. What other people do though is not my concern) in that I think abortion is wrong, I think there is something fundamentally wrong forcing a woman to carry a child that will threaten her life.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

No, because what if she fully hasn't matured enough for her body to be able to take on 9 months of hard work? IMO if the women's life is threatened by a child, an abortion is what SHOULD happen. As much "pro life" I am (that is as applied toward myself. I would NEVER want my wife to get an abortion if an accident happened. What other people do though is not my concern) in that I think abortion is wrong, I think there is something fundamentally wrong forcing a woman to carry a child that will threaten her life.

Originally posted by: aka1nas
I don't usually post in P&N, but in this case I would like to bring up that it is very likely unsafe for a girl that young to be having a baby and there is increased chance that the baby would be born with birth defects and/or the mother's life would be endangered.

Depends, many 12 yr olds don't look like 12 yr olds used to look like back say 30 yrs ago.

High fructose corn syrup which is in everything is causing early development.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Get the thing adopted. Either abortion is right or it is not. This moral relativity is rather silly "OH, i don't agree with it...unless she was raped!" Who give a half sh*t why she's pregnant. Either it's not killing somebody, in which case it's fine, or it is, in which case deal with it and give it away if you don't like it.

No, because what if she fully hasn't matured enough for her body to be able to take on 9 months of hard work? IMO if the women's life is threatened by a child, an abortion is what SHOULD happen. As much "pro life" I am (that is as applied toward myself. I would NEVER want my wife to get an abortion if an accident happened. What other people do though is not my concern) in that I think abortion is wrong, I think there is something fundamentally wrong forcing a woman to carry a child that will threaten her life.

Well it's all relative really. I know it's "not so great" for the mother, but I haven't seen stats on it, and I doubt most people here have. The fact is that there is risk with any pregnancy. Anybody out of the age of 20-30 or so has risk, whether they're older or younger than that. Again, IF you are of the mindset that aborting is terminating a life, it would be silly to proclaim that losing that life is worth doing to mitigate risk to the mother (unless it's like damn likely the mother and kid will both die). Either it's killing the kid or it's not.