Poll:Should prostitution be legal in the US?

[Encryptic]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

You have your right to an opinion, but frankly my experience with the "Moral Majority" on ATOT seems to be that they tar everything with the same brush (i.e. everything illegal is automatically bad, no questions asked). I call them narrow-minded because they seem to be incapable of respecting any opinion that doesn't fall in line with their opinion. I'm not asking you to tear down the moral foundations that you're clinging so desperately to, but instead to listen to what other people have to say, whether you like what they say or not.

If you don't have anything intelligent to add to a discussion besides "It's a tool of the Devil", then DON'T BOTHER POSTING. This isn't a battle to see who's got a soul as clean and pure as the driven snow, it's supposed to be an intelligent debate.

::sigh::

 

[Fausto]

"intelligent debate"??? Here???


Does....not...compute.....

 

[Red]

Originally posted by: waylman

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

actually, you're the ignorant one. According to you, prostitution is dirty and low. According to me, it is not. This is a moral argument. Morality should not be decided by the government. If someone wants to be a prostitute, let them. They should not be punished for this.

I guess some of us are governed by morality and religion a little more than others. I suppose you don't believe in an after-life either? I want to start a business where I sell handguns to pre-schoolers, because that is what I want to do..... I shouldn't be punished because it's the preschooler who is going to be doing the act, right?

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

I guess some of us are governed by morality and religion a little more than others. I suppose you don't believe in an after-life either? I want to start a business where I sell handguns to pre-schoolers, because that is what I want to do..... I shouldn't be punished because it's the preschooler who is going to be doing the act, right?

Way to troll.

 

[Red]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

it is dirty and low because thats what you've been raised to think. We all havent been raised with our heads up our own asses.

No, it's called raised with Christianity. I am sorry you were not raised with it, if you would like some more information I can help you.

 

[Encryptic]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
"intelligent debate"??? Here???


Does....not...compute.....

Yeah, I'm probably wasting my breath with that line but this pisses me off when people cannot accept that there is an opinion that differs from theirs and hold up "moral standards" as the penultimate argument against something.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

Normally it would be difficult to prove such a thing is false, but fortunately Nevada is here to back up my point.

The Nevada courts are not clogged with suits against johns or prostitutes for anything like you described. I could count the number of cases last year directly related to an act of legalized prostitution on both hands, and if you take out cases relating to the john getting too rough I could count them on one hand. Disease is a non-issue because state law mandates prostitutes be tested for STDs monthly and that all johns wear a condom. On top of all of that, arrests for illegal prostitution are lower in Nevada per capita than most states.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: waylman

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

actually, you're the ignorant one. According to you, prostitution is dirty and low. According to me, it is not. This is a moral argument. Morality should not be decided by the government. If someone wants to be a prostitute, let them. They should not be punished for this.

I guess some of us are governed by morality and religion a little more than others. I suppose you don't believe in an after-life either? I want to start a business where I sell handguns to pre-schoolers, because that is what I want to do..... I shouldn't be punished because it's the preschooler who is going to be doing the act, right?

right cuz pre schoolers are the same as free thinking adults.

 

[Hubris]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Yeah, but prostitution is going to happen anyway no matter what you do. People will always want sex and other people will always need money and be willing to do almost anything about it. If it were legal and regulated, you'd be able to keep the spread of STDs in check to an extent and you'd also take away the pimp's power to abuse the women who work for him or his ability to keep them on a "leash" via drug addiction. Everyone wins.

There! That's exactly what I think is messed up about this whole equation. I think prostitution would capitalize on people's desperation when they need money, taking advantage of the poor, if you will. If someone doesn't want to sell their body as a cum receptacle, yet it's that or welfare, it would make it really hard to choose not to do that.

This is less of a conversation about legalizing prostitution for women who find it a legitimate profession and desire to do it, than it is a conversation about legalizing prostitution for women who have almost no other options. The majority of women in this profession will always be the ones who are desperate. :|

Do you think garbage men want to do what they do? That if they had their druthers, they'd be picking up other people's trash? How about janitors? A lot of lower socio-economic jobs are done by people who have no other recourse/training/education for more demanding jobs. The only difference between prostitution and these other jobs is that selling 'sex' is seen as dirty and the others are not. But who is to determine what's dirty? There will always be desperate people; do you think there's any dirth of prostitutes now, when it's illegal? If it were legal, it would provide some sort of shileding for women, be it regulation for STDs, legal recourse if they're screwed (no pun intended) out of money, shielding from pimps who beat and take a HUGE percentage of their money, and a safe environment to work in. I think these outweigh the disadvantages. You profess to be thinking about the women here, but if the industry was regulated and safeguards were enacted, then it would be a much less dangerous job to have. Yes, you might get women who didn't want to do the job, but I kind of doubt that someone who isn't desperate enough to be a prostitute when it's illegal would all of a sudden decide it's all right if it's legal.

Grown, consenting adults should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies. If that means selling it so that you can eat, well then you should be able to do that. Prostitution will continue, regardless of whether it's legal or not; the only difference is the welfare of the women who are doing it. Legalization would provide them with some kind of structure and hopefully a measure of safety.

Unfortunately, the archaic and unrealistic hangups this country has with sex will not make this feasible anytime in the near or far future.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

it is dirty and low because thats what you've been raised to think. We all havent been raised with our heads up our own asses.

No, it's called raised with Christianity. I am sorry you were not raised with it, if you would like some more information I can help you.

christianity ...........like i said some of us werent raised with our heads up our own asses.

 

[waylman]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: waylman

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

actually, you're the ignorant one. According to you, prostitution is dirty and low. According to me, it is not. This is a moral argument. Morality should not be decided by the government. If someone wants to be a prostitute, let them. They should not be punished for this.

I guess some of us are governed by morality and religion a little more than others. I suppose you don't believe in an after-life either? I want to start a business where I sell handguns to pre-schoolers, because that is what I want to do..... I shouldn't be punished because it's the preschooler who is going to be doing the act, right?

Oh Jesus H. Christ. If you start preaching to me, I swear to God, I'm going to scream.

 

[chasem]

How come when something like this: legalize prostitution/marijuana, you always hear people say, "i dont want whores on my corner" or they get the impression that you are trying to get a joint in every young americans hand. that is simply not how it would be. stop the knee-jerk reactions

 

[ElFenix]

hows it working for nevada?

 

[waylman]

Originally posted by: chasem
How come when something like this: legalize prostitution/marijuana, you always hear people say, "i dont want whores on my corner" or they get the impression that you are trying to get a joint in every young americans hand. that is simply not how it would be. stop the knee-jerk reactions

Because they have been brainwashed by the government and their religion to think this way.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald


I really don't think that's true, whatever your moral stance is. Legalizing it would almost inevitably have an impact on disease. However, since we're living in the real world, there are problems that would come with legalization too. The question on the table really is, are the problems worse with prostitution illegal or would they be worse with it legal? I tend to focus in on the individuals involved and I think it would be worse legally. Argument really doesn't change any opinions here because it's a question of the lesser evil and people have different perspectives.

i don't think the moral mandate you allude to would outweigh the effects of extensive regulation, even on the individuals performing the service.

By the moral mandate I allude to, do you mean when I said "are the problems worse with prostitution legal or illegal"? I'm honestly not making a moral argument because I know that doesn't fly in ATOT. My argument has to do with the exploitation of women versus the control of disease.[/quote]

That was in referrence to your original position which indicated that you believed legalizing prosititution would draw additional desperate women into the profession.

The thing is, there's already plenty of opportunity for prostitutes. So what's stopping these presently desperate women from becoming prostitutes now? It could be the legal penalties, but I doubt it (there's not nearly as stringent as say dealing illegal narcotics). Nonetheless, I agree with your assertion that legalizing would draw this borderline population in and that's because legalization is in effect a moral mandate by the gov't that removes stigma from the activity. Is that not what you were arguing?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Encryptic
If it were legalized, I would require that they be checked regularly for STDS, must be affiliated with a licensed brothel, etc. Just treat it like any other business, essentially. Taxes, licenses, inspections, the works. It would certainly help to eliminate some crime related to prostitution and the revenue earned from taxing brothels could be applied to cleaning up red-light districts or other public works projects, as someone else said before.

Hmm, I like that. Since it's a foregone conclusion that prostitution will never be stamped out this would seem like the logical thing to do. Less hookers murdered in back alleys, less free mingling of drugs with sex, better personal security.

An old friend used to do it out of her house occasionally to support herself and her child. While I still find it distasteful and sad, it at least helped her weather a bad financial crisis until she could find steady work again. Personally I'd think that I'd take ANY paltry little job before stooping to what she did, but then again I was never in her shoes. Regardless her state of mind with sex, well, she was screwed up in that sense to begin with. No additional harm done.

 

[Red]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt


That is hardly the worlds oldest profession. Such a deceptive description. It's dirty. It's low. It's not a society that I want my children growing up in.

Too late.

Name one society in which protitution is not widespread. Just one.

No government, no matter how oppressive, has ever been able to stop it. And the only places in which disease and exploitation has been minimized are those places it has been legalized and taken out of the back alleys.

Besides, who are you to tell a person they can't do what they want with their own body? What's next, regulating what food they can eat?

They can do with their body what they want. This country is all about defense of personal freedom that does not intrude on other people's freedoms. Well, I don't want that kind of crap being put into my kids heads. Why do you think we have censors in the media? Why not get rid of them then? Why do we have rules in society at ALL? Why do we even HAVE a government?

I think we have government to protect our rights. And for some of us our rights include paying for sex and having sex for money. the media doesnt need to be censored because if someone doesnt want to watch something they dont have to, goto the library and pick up a damn book. Raise your kids to know what is right and what is wrong and it doesnt really matter how many whores are in the streets or what is on the television. The people in amsterdam are a helluva lot more cultered, classy and genuine than any americans I';ve met and they have no holds barred porn on tv, practically legalized drugs and sex. Americans that complain about stuff like this need to stop being such cry baby faggots and grow up. IF you dont like something dont do it, watch it, look at it, eat it, smell it, smoke it, poke it whatever...........just dont go tellin me i cant do what i want because it bothers you.

You must be an anarchist. "Let me do what I want and as long as I don't bother you, don't worry about."

and your point is?

You don't live in an anarchist world. We wouldn't have laws or language or anything. Your logic of "let me do what I want" will never happen.

I could be mistaken but I thought minimal government interference was the basis on which this country was founded and since then , sick and twisted individuals such as your self have been dedicated to sucking all freedoms away. I'm not an anrachist I'm more into a true hands off except when necessary government.

And in God we trust, right? The country obviously had a much more stringent Christian founding than where it lays now. I think eventually prostitution will be legal, as things become much more lenient now.

 

[Dudd]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: RedhotjrmYou must be an anarchist. "Let me do what I want and as long as I don't bother you, don't worry about."

and your point is?

You don't live in an anarchist world. We wouldn't have laws or language or anything. Your logic of "let me do what I want" will never happen.

Your original statement leaves the door open to plenty of laws. Murder, rape, theft, robbery, etc. IMO, that's the world I want to live in.

 

[Encryptic]

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You see, there are ATOT'ers here that believe their level of intelligence, morality, and even right-or-wrongness depends upon a person's level of open-mindedness. That is ignorant. Prostitution is dirty and low, and legalizing it will not prevent the spread of disease or crime.

The regulated prostitution will have a high cost... sluts will file claims against their vassals who don't pay and people will sue for disease, yada yada...

This is just an ignorant topic.

it is dirty and low because thats what you've been raised to think. We all havent been raised with our heads up our own asses.

No, it's called raised with Christianity. I am sorry you were not raised with it, if you would like some more information I can help you.

Christians also murdered infidels, raped women, and speared babies during the Crusades to take back the Holy Land. Were you raised to believe that was OK and morally right? They were just a bunch of towelheads who believe in a false god anyway, I guess.

 

[Hubris]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt


That is hardly the worlds oldest profession. Such a deceptive description. It's dirty. It's low. It's not a society that I want my children growing up in.

Too late.

Name one society in which protitution is not widespread. Just one.

No government, no matter how oppressive, has ever been able to stop it. And the only places in which disease and exploitation has been minimized are those places it has been legalized and taken out of the back alleys.

Besides, who are you to tell a person they can't do what they want with their own body? What's next, regulating what food they can eat?

They can do with their body what they want. This country is all about defense of personal freedom that does not intrude on other people's freedoms. Well, I don't want that kind of crap being put into my kids heads. Why do you think we have censors in the media? Why not get rid of them then? Why do we have rules in society at ALL? Why do we even HAVE a government?

It's YOUR job to put things in your kids head, not the gov'ts to keep thing out of them. Do you think that kids won't learn about prostitution, legal or not? They'll learn; we all do, one way or another. The only way to keep kids completely innocent is to keep them so sheltered they're crippled when they have to finally deal with the real world. Teach your children what YOU consider to be right and wrong, but let them make their own decisions about it. 'Sides, IF prostitution was legalized, it's not like they'd be letting anyone under 18 into the brothels. Porn's legalized, isn't it? And yet your kids can't access it (theoretically anyway). I'm thinking it would be much harder for kids to get access to prostitution than it would be porn.

There's a huge difference between rules and censorship. Rules protect people from harm and danger; censorship attempts to regulate thought and morality. That is unacceptable to me. If I don't want my children to watch something, I'LL make sure they don't do it. I don't need the gov't telling me what my kids can and cannot do. But when it comes to murder/rape/theft etc., then I'll take a hand from the cops. But the raising of children should be left to the parents, even though a ton of them are doing a piss poor job these days. My mother raised me correctly, so even though I saw Eddie Murphy's Raw and Delirious when I was like 10, I don't go around cursing and making gay jokes. Why? because I was taught that it is unacceptable by the person whose job it was to do that; my mother. I'm sick of parents whining for the gov't to do their jobs for them. YOU chose to have children, YOU raise them.

 

[gigapet]

You don't live in an anarchist world. We wouldn't have laws or language or anything. Your logic of "let me do what I want" will never happen.

I could be mistaken but I thought minimal government interference was the basis on which this country was founded and since then , sick and twisted individuals such as your self have been dedicated to sucking all freedoms away. I'm not an anrachist I'm more into a true hands off except when necessary government.[/quote]

And in God we trust, right? The country obviously had a much more stringent Christian founding than where it lays now. I think eventually prostitution will be legal, as things become much more lenient now.[/quote]


god not jesus. next...............

edit: god does not equal the bible or the same thing for everyone its general.......... open for interpretation but you wouldnt know about that

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Hubris
Do you think garbage men want to do what they do? That if they had their druthers, they'd be picking up other people's trash? How about janitors? A lot of lower socio-economic jobs are done by people who have no other recourse/training/education for more demanding jobs. The only difference between prostitution and these other jobs is that selling 'sex' is seen as dirty and the others are not. But who is to determine what's dirty? There will always be desperate people; do you think there's any dirth of prostitutes now, when it's illegal? If it were legal, it would provide some sort of shileding for women, be it regulation for STDs, legal recourse if they're screwed (no pun intended) out of money, shielding from pimps who beat and take a HUGE percentage of their money, and a safe environment to work in. I think these outweigh the disadvantages. You profess to be thinking about the women here, but if the industry was regulated and safeguards were enacted, then it would be a much less dangerous job to have. Yes, you might get women who didn't want to do the job, but I kind of doubt that someone who isn't desperate enough to be a prostitute when it's illegal would all of a sudden decide it's all right if it's legal.

Grown, consenting adults should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies. If that means selling it so that you can eat, well then you should be able to do that. Prostitution will continue, regardless of whether it's legal or not; the only difference is the welfare of the women who are doing it. Legalization would provide them with some kind of structure and hopefully a measure of safety.

Unfortunately, the archaic and unrealistic hangups this country has with sex will not make this feasible anytime in the near or far future.

Again, I find your comparison between prostitution and garbage collectors to be less valid than a comparison between prostitution and slavery. The government, as I said, has ruled that you cannot be forced to sell yourself into slavery to pay your debts. I believe, along that precedent, that you should not have to sell your body either.

There is a difference between a "demeaning" job like garbage collecting and a "demeaning" job like prostitution. Throughout all of history, sex has been tied to the idea of love in one way or another. I think that may be evidence enough to vouch for the fact that sex generally has a strong emotional element. A specific sex act may not, but someone's sexuality in general does. Prostitution affects that strongly, unlike garbage collecting, which is a profession more detached from a fundamental element of oneself.

I can't argue that legalization of prostitution would provide more safety for women. Full enforcement of current laws (impossible, I know) would do that too. I just find the women who would be drawn into the profession if it were legalized to outweigh the women who are currently in the profession. It's a very hard call to make, and a difference in opinion there is very understandable and reasonable.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: gigapet
god not jesus. next...............

edit: god does not equal the same thing for everyone its general..........

yeah. you fvcking suck at teh quoting.

 

[royaldank]

n/m

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald

That was in referrence to your original position which indicated that you believed legalizing prosititution would draw additional desperate women into the profession.

The thing is, there's already plenty of opportunity for prostitutes. So what's stopping these presently desperate women from becoming prostitutes now? It could be the legal penalties, but I doubt it (there's not nearly as stringent as say dealing illegal narcotics). Nonetheless, I agree with your assertion that legalizing would draw this borderline population in and that's because legalization is in effect a moral mandate by the gov't that removes stigma from the activity. Is that not what you were arguing?

How does my original position invoke morality, other than the fact that women who have a morality that opposes prostitution yet are desperate might be in a hopeless enough position to consider themselves forced to abandon their morality? No matter how screwed up some people's moral codes are, I don't think they should have to act against them in most circumstances.

I don't believe I was making (and I certainly didn't intend to make) an argument based on a moral premise. I don't think that legalization is a moral mandate by the government - it could as easily be looked at as a law to prevent exploitation.

[edit] Thanks for the discussion guys. I've gotta get back to packing my stuff up to move. TTYL