Poll Shows Majority of Americans Believe Abortion ?Almost Always Bad? for Women

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Come again? This time, try forming a complete sentence rather than merging several fragments together because I really have no idea what you just said.

Go back to school. The sentence if fine. It's your comprehesion skills that are falling short.

I never left school. However, it's been a while since I took an English class, so maybe you can diagram the sentence for me. Here it is again in case you forgot:

No, but if you are too dense to comprehend the problem, otherwise, being the actual rape victimit wouldn't hurt your ability to understand it.

Originally posted by: Sunner
It sure sounds very objective :roll:
Anyone who doesn't see the bias in that is a complete and utter moron.

Like I said, the two women I know who have had abortions are both doing fine, neither liked it, but neither is suicidal.

Like other religious fanatics you refuse to see the difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.
I don't think abortion is a good thing, but I do support the right of others to make their own decisions, unlike you and and your fellow fanatics who wish to force their beliefs on others.

Silly me, trying to convince others to logically examine their actions. I guess personal responsibility is a meaningless concept in this day and age. After all, just because I killed your dog doesn't mean the law should prosecute me, as that would be PETA forcing their views on me. That rhetoric is tired, obviously flawed, and readily dispelled by third graders everywhere.

Originally posted by: aidanjm
As a dour & sexless, fundamentalist male Xian adult, Riprorin's understandings of the decision making process of a confused, pregnant 14 year old is likely to be slim. That was GeekBabe's point.

Why does the decision-making process factor in to the legality or logic behind allowing or banning abortion? It's hard for me to not beat someone within an inch of their life if they kill my brother while driving drunk, but the law requires me to restrain myself.

Originally posted by: aidanjm
By the way, abortion can't reasonably be characterised as murder, because the fetus does not have the status of personhood. The fetus is a thing, it is not a human being. The fetus has the potential to eventually become a human being (if the developmental process is not aborted).

It is human, though not legally a person. You should be more aware of the criteria used in making such distinctions if you're going to throw that language around. I'm not sure how you can say it's human but not a human being, as that's an obviously contradictory statement.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Abortion in this country especially will never go away. Do you really think that by outlawing it you will make it stop? What we need to do is zero in on sexual education amongst teens and we need comprehensive courses on safe sex, diseases, abstinence, etc. We need to throw everything at these kids and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Abortion in this country especially will never go away. Do you really think that by outlawing it you will make it stop? What we need to do is zero in on sexual education amongst teens and we need comprehensive courses on safe sex, diseases, abstinence, etc. We need to throw everything at these kids and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

Grand theft in this country especially will never go away. Do you really think that by outlawing it you will make it stop? What we need to do is zero in on financial education amongst teens and we need comprehensive courses on management of funds, identity theft, thriftiness, etc. We need to throw everything at these kids and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Abortion in this country especially will never go away. Do you really think that by outlawing it you will make it stop? What we need to do is zero in on sexual education amongst teens and we need comprehensive courses on safe sex, diseases, abstinence, etc. We need to throw everything at these kids and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

Grand theft in this country especially will never go away. Do you really think that by outlawing it you will make it stop? What we need to do is zero in on financial education amongst teens and we need comprehensive courses on management of funds, identity theft, thriftiness, etc. We need to throw everything at these kids and then let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

Well by your reasoning, are you against masturbation? Is that not the murdering of thousands of potential lives. Where do you draw the line? That is precisely the problem with abortion, nobody knows quite where to draw the line, we have people that are either all against it, against it in some cases, and not against it at all.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Well by your reasoning, are you against masturbation? Is that not the murdering of thousands of potential lives. Where do you draw the line? That is precisely the problem with abortion, nobody knows quite where to draw the line, we have people that are either all against it, against it in some cases, and not against it at all.

My reasoning didn't enter into my post at all. Instead, I just obviated the ridiculousness of your reasoning.

The statements you make in this post are ridiculous to the point of hardly being worthy of address. However, it's more entertaining than studying transport phenomena, so I will anyway. The line can be clearly and distinctly drawn at the formation of a distinct human life. At this point, the cell(s) are no longer part of your body but form a new body, complete with its own set of DNA. The fact that its DNA is now distinct from either of its parents clearly dictates that it is a distinct entity.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Well by your reasoning, are you against masturbation? Is that not the murdering of thousands of potential lives. Where do you draw the line? That is precisely the problem with abortion, nobody knows quite where to draw the line, we have people that are either all against it, against it in some cases, and not against it at all.

My reasoning didn't enter into my post at all. Instead, I just obviated the ridiculousness of your reasoning.

The statements you make in this post are ridiculous to the point of hardly being worthy of address. However, it's more entertaining than studying transport phenomena, so I will anyway. The line can be clearly and distinctly drawn at the formation of a distinct human life. At this point, the cell(s) are no longer part of your body but form a new body, complete with its own set of DNA. The fact that its DNA is now distinct from either of its parents clearly dictates that it is a distinct entity.

Me thinks you should change your name to psychowizard, that suits you a lot better. Your radical views, yes i said RADICAL, because I distinctly remember you stating that you would rather live in a terrorist dictatorship where abortion was outlawed as opposed to the US gov't right now, represent that of a misguided and close-minded religious zealot.

 

[Sunner]

Silly me, trying to convince others to logically examine their actions. I guess personal responsibility is a meaningless concept in this day and age. After all, just because I killed your dog doesn't mean the law should prosecute me, as that would be PETA forcing their views on me. That rhetoric is tired, obviously flawed, and readily dispelled by third graders everywhere.

Stop putting words in my mouth.
I never said people shouldn't considder their actions, accidental pregnancies are indeed a very bad thing, and doubt there are many men or women who would disagree about that.
You complete unability to look at it through someone else's eyes is what makes you a fundie, not your view in and of itself.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Well by your reasoning, are you against masturbation? Is that not the murdering of thousands of potential lives. Where do you draw the line? That is precisely the problem with abortion, nobody knows quite where to draw the line, we have people that are either all against it, against it in some cases, and not against it at all.

My reasoning didn't enter into my post at all. Instead, I just obviated the ridiculousness of your reasoning.

The statements you make in this post are ridiculous to the point of hardly being worthy of address. However, it's more entertaining than studying transport phenomena, so I will anyway. The line can be clearly and distinctly drawn at the formation of a distinct human life. At this point, the cell(s) are no longer part of your body but form a new body, complete with its own set of DNA. The fact that its DNA is now distinct from either of its parents clearly dictates that it is a distinct entity.

Me thinks you should change your name to psychowizard, that suits you a lot better. Your radical views, yes i said RADICAL, because I distinctly remember you stating that you would rather live in a terrorist dictatorship where abortion was outlawed as opposed to the US gov't right now, represent that of a misguided and close-minded religious zealot.

It would be a lot more civil here if the forum rules were enforced.

It's too bad that some here have to resort to personal attack when the folly of their arguments are revealed.

 

[BarneyFife]

Do any of the right wing zealots support free health care to children? Essentially I see this "I'm against abortion but after the baby is born, screw him. I'm not going to give my tax money to some little bastard that can't pay his own health insurance, and if he's starving let the bastard die, I'm against welfare" Pretty screwed up views in life.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Do any of the right wing zealots support free health care to children? Essentially I see this "I'm against abortion but after the baby is born, screw him. I'm not going to give my tax money to some little bastard that can't pay his own health insurance, and if he's starving let the bastard die, I'm against welfare" Pretty screwed up views in life.

This is exactly the problem with the so called "moral" right. They support an immoral and completely baseless war which has called hundreds of thousands of people, yet cry when abortion is mentioned. They have their own twisted POV like everyone else does, and are no more moral or righteous than the next man.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
?I have always held that the abortion decision is not one that is made lightly or easily,it stands to reason that such a serious matter would come with some emotional after effects... but so would carrying a pregnancy to term.?


Are you looking for some kind of ?pass? for not taking your decision to murder an innocent child lightly?

What of the women with 5 screaming children whose husband has craped out on his responsibility. Should she have the ?right to choose? not to spend the remainder of her days working thru an event that did not pan out for her? Would murder be an option in her case? Of course not, God forbid!

Come on here, I completely understand the difficulties that we all face.

Murder is the coward?s way out.

I've been pregnant, I've also struggled alone,rearing children without any sort of practical or fiscal assistance so I've got a fair idea of what that's like, what are your credentials in the child bearing
arena?

I don't presume to know all the reasons people chose to abort, what I do feel is that the vast majority of people don't make this decision lightly or easily.I do not feel it is my place to attempt to dictate to others how they should handle an untimely pregnancy.This decision is,imho best left to the woman and her physican.


Btw, I've also got an autistic 17 yr old and not once has a single right to lifer ever offered any sort of goods or services to make his life any easier. In fact,they're usually the most vocal in opposing any sorts of additional funding for special education,medicare,SSI assistance and group home/case management services.It seems to me that life is only "special" and "sacred" till the mother gets off the delivery room table.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

couldn't agree more with geekbabe. Of course psychowizard is going to say "the innocent fetus here has no rights, what about it's right to live?". Well that's precisely the problem, I view a fetus as not a fully developed person and thus I do not consider abortion to be murder. Others feel differently, and I just don't see any compromising on this issue.

 

[MrPALCO]

Obviously, I have never been pregnant. I am a father. However, that in no way disqualifies or gives me unique qualification to speak on whether murder is right or wrong.



You may not believe it is your place to ?dictate? on the handling of a pregnancy, but I do. I say that abortion is murder and that you must not use murder as an option for problem solving.


Raising a special needs child is no doubt, a difficult thing. I applaud you for you effort. Our friends and neighbors need to see real ?dirty hands? heroes in their midst, and you are one.

With regard to ?right to lifers? not reaching out to offer you a hand. When is it the job of a ?right to lifer? to help someone whom, I will assume, has rejected them and their God? Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?


Fact is, the people of God have a record of real ?down in the trenches? assistance to pregnant women that no group on earth will ever be able to match. We do it with our own money and we greatly resist the efforts of others to take our money via the tool of confiscatory taxes.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
When is it the job of a ?right to lifer? to help someone whom, I will assume, has rejected them and their God?

I wonder what Jesus would have to say about this?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
Obviously, I have never been pregnant. I am a father. However, that in no way disqualifies or gives me unique qualification to speak on whether murder is right or wrong.



You may not believe it is your place to ?dictate? on the handling of a pregnancy, but I do. I say that abortion is murder and that you must not use murder as an option for problem solving.


Raising a special needs child is no doubt, a difficult thing. I applaud you for you effort. Our friends and neighbors need to see real ?dirty hands? heroes in their midst, and you are one.

With regard to ?right to lifers? not reaching out to offer you a hand. When is it the job of a ?right to lifer? to help someone whom, I will assume, has rejected them and their God? Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?


Fact is, the people of God have a record of real ?down in the trenches? assistance to pregnant women that no group on earth will ever be able to match. We do it with our own money and we greatly resist the efforts of others to take our money via the tool of confiscatory taxes.

So you've pretty much proved her point that you guys don't care about kids after they are born. Congratulations. I'm sure Jesus will applaud your efforts.

 

[MrPALCO]

Here is the rest of the paragraph, her209. I hope it helps to put what I wrote in perspective.

"Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?"

Just trying to be helpful.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
Here is the rest of the paragraph, her209. I helps to put what I wrote in perspective.

"Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?"

Just trying to be helpful.

I don't see how that sentence helps your stance any.

 

[MrPALCO]

"I don't see how that sentence helps your stance any. " -- her209

Forgive me, her209, I don't want to be unclear about my view.

Abortion is a murder and a sin.

Any questions?

 

[Whaspe]

"Because the embryo is not human it can be aborted; because it is human we want to use it for research."
-Kristina Kercher Keneally

This paradox will always exist. I for one am against abortion. Anytime a man and woman decide to have sex with each other they must be willing to accept full responsibility for any repercussions (child or desease). That said, I believe everyone has the right to free choice and whether or not their choice is good or bad, it is still their choice. Noone should be forced into having an abortion and noone should be forced into not having one. The basis of Christianity is that all are born sinners and that there is no difference between those who have had an abortion and those who attack others in forums.
"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:4-10
God allowed Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit in the Garden just as he allows us to make mistakes today. We were not created to be yes men/women, but through choice and His grace we may chose to acknowledge and worship Him. As Christ's ambassador's it is not our place to condemn, but to show mercy, be open to those who like ourselves, are sinners.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Poll Shows Majority of Americans Believe Abortion ?Almost Always Bad? for Women

Chicago, IL ? A nationwide scientific poll conducted by the polling firm Wirthlin Worldwide shows that a significant majority of Americans believe that abortion is ?almost always bad? for women--even when they know a woman who has had an abortion.

The poll of 1001 respondents, conducted for Americans United for Life, a public interest bioethics law firm, asked three questions:

1. Just generally, do you believe that abortion is almost always a good thing for a woman or almost always a bad thing for a woman?

Base ? 1001 respondents
Almost always a good thing ? 230 (or 23%)
Almost always a bad thing ? 609 (or 61%)
Don?t know/refused ? 162 (or 16%)

2. Do you personally know someone who has had an abortion?

Base - 1001 respondents
Yes ? 640 (or 64%)
No ? 335 (or 33%)
Don?t know/refused ? 27 (or 3%)

3. From your observation, was that generally a positive or negative experience?

Base ? 640 respondents (those who responded ?Yes? to question 2)
Positive experience ? 256 (or 40%)
Negative experience ? 352 (or 55%)
Don?t know/refused ? 31 (or 5%)

?This poll shows that Americans are increasingly aware that legalized abortion harms women,? said Dorinda Bordlee, Esq., Senior Legislative Counsel for Americans United for Life.

?Over thirty years of abortion has wreaked havoc on women's physical and psychological heath, and has served to facilitate the sexual exploitation of women. This poll shows that Americans are facing the reality that the violence of abortion leads to disaster for women, our children, and our culture. Abortion has not turned out to be the great liberator we were told it would be.?

Link

BWAHAHAHAHA
Big load of dung!
Ofcourse it's a negative experience, it's not like people like it. Even though you might think so, they're not just doing it for the fun of it.

If you're so much against abortions, why don't you get big on teachings kids about condoms.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
Any questions?

I'm still waiting on clarifications from this paragraph, especially the bolded sentence.

With regard to ?right to lifers? not reaching out to offer you a hand. When is it the job of a ?right to lifer? to help someone whom, I will assume, has rejected them and their God? Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?

My question still stands.

I wonder what Jesus would have to say about this?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
?I have always held that the abortion decision is not one that is made lightly or easily,it stands to reason that such a serious matter would come with some emotional after effects... but so would carrying a pregnancy to term.?


Are you looking for some kind of ?pass? for not taking your decision to murder an innocent child lightly?

What of the women with 5 screaming children whose husband has craped out on his responsibility. Should she have the ?right to choose? not to spend the remainder of her days working thru an event that did not pan out for her? Would murder be an option in her case? Of course not, God forbid!

Come on here, I completely understand the difficulties that we all face.

Murder is the coward?s way out.

I've been pregnant, I've also struggled alone,rearing children without any sort of practical or fiscal assistance so I've got a fair idea of what that's like, what are your credentials in the child bearing
arena?

I don't presume to know all the reasons people chose to abort, what I do feel is that the vast majority of people don't make this decision lightly or easily.I do not feel it is my place to attempt to dictate to others how they should handle an untimely pregnancy.This decision is,imho best left to the woman and her physican.


Btw, I've also got an autistic 17 yr old and not once has a single right to lifer ever offered any sort of goods or services to make his life any easier. In fact,they're usually the most vocal in opposing any sorts of additional funding for special education,medicare,SSI assistance and group home/case management services.It seems to me that life is only "special" and "sacred" till the mother gets off the delivery room table.

Do you belong to a good local church?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
"I don't see how that sentence helps your stance any. " -- her209

Forgive me, her209, I don't want to be unclear about my view.

Abortion is a murder and a sin.

Any questions?

that doesn't address his question at all.

 

[rickn]

technically, as it stands now, abortion is not murder. Murder is unlawful, abortion is not unlawful, therefore in the eyes of the law it is not murder. Is there any scriptures in the bible that talks about abortion, and I mean specificually mention that word? Religious folks throw it around like everyday bible news, but I don't recall them ever reciting or reprinting scripture that condemns abortion.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: MrPALCO
Obviously, I have never been pregnant. I am a father. However, that in no way disqualifies or gives me unique qualification to speak on whether murder is right or wrong.



You may not believe it is your place to ?dictate? on the handling of a pregnancy, but I do. I say that abortion is murder and that you must not use murder as an option for problem solving.


Raising a special needs child is no doubt, a difficult thing. I applaud you for you effort. Our friends and neighbors need to see real ?dirty hands? heroes in their midst, and you are one.

With regard to ?right to lifers? not reaching out to offer you a hand. When is it the job of a ?right to lifer? to help someone whom, I will assume, has rejected them and their God? Perhaps your position toward ?right to lifers? has erected a wall that separates you from certain help?


Fact is, the people of God have a record of real ?down in the trenches? assistance to pregnant women that no group on earth will ever be able to match. We do it with our own money and we greatly resist the efforts of others to take our money via the tool of confiscatory taxes.

Being a "real life hero" isn't going to do a thing to help pay for care for my son once I'm dead Mr Palco.


I've been paying taxes too since my first job at age 13,wanting to know that my adult son, disabled thru no fault of his or my doing will have care provided to him is not an unreasonable thing to expect.