Poll: US Cyber command launches offensive on Russia, does not brief Trump. Did they do the right thing?

[HomerJS]

Back in Trump's first year I speculated the military probably placed a "Trump" buffer" in the nuclear football. The system is designed for the order give by a POTUS to launch be carried out quickly. I said back then Trump could not be trusted with the codes because he would give them to enemies like Russia. I said this amounted to a soft coup. It made me uneasy but far better then the alternative giving Trump sensitive information valuable to enemies potentially damaging the the US.

Everyone here knows but some will not admit Trump has chosen the side of Putin over the United States. He said so in Helsinki. Putin gave Trump help to win the 2016 election. He also said so in Helsinki. All of out intel agencies confirmed so there is no doubt.

Because no direction has come from the White House as to countering the Russia interference individual agencies have taken it upon themselves to protect the country. Less effective absent leadership from the top but better then nothing. Cyber command has taken aggressive steps to infiltrate powerful malware into the Russian power grid. Also in order to protect their actions they decided not to tell Trump. NYT comes out with the story and his Orangeness is pissed, not at Russia but at our agencies. Trump approved new authorities which allowd cyber command to take this action without Presidential approval. We all knowTrump does not read his intelligence reports so you can bet he was unaware this was allowed.

Question, did our agencies do the right thing taking aggressive action against Russia while keeping Trump in the dark?

I chose the Red State article because it succinctly sums up what happened although they incorrectly try to blame Democrats.
https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...ef-trump-details-russian-power-grid-operation

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm pretty sure they told him in some briefing material he doesn't read, anyway.

 

[pcgeek11]

I don't think either of those two choices is correct.

Probably somewhere in the middle. More likely informed with no details.

 

[trenchfoot]

One of the first things Trump tried to do after taking office was to lift the sanctions on Russia.

That right there set off all the alarm bells I needed to hear to know that that guy was compromised in a nasty kind of way by Putin and those oligarch buddies of his who have markers on Trump.

Needless to say, Trump's consistent followup support of Putin and against our own intel agencies that were warning him about Putin but went unheeded just makes things that much more clear how Trump is a threat to the nation because he owes his ass to a foreign adversary.

edit -spl

 

[ivwshane]

As much as I hate trump, the precedent this sets is very bad.

If I had faith that the elected officials in Congress would have good oversight over our intelligence agencies, maybe, it might be acceptable but even still I'd have serious reservations about this behavior.

The fact that the various intelligence agencies think they know best by keeping things from the president is very concerning.

Personally, I'd keep trump informed and if he responded by say, informing the Russians or stopping such counterintelligence, then I'd leak it to the public and impeach the traitor.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yea this what America voted for. Republican controlled presidency and congresses made this happen.

From the article:

Secondly, if it is known that a President’s underlings feel free to make consequential decisions without consulting him, he appears weak. And as much as that fills liberal hearts with glee, it hurts America.

Seems they confuse Glee with dread.

Anyways, this is great and what 'Murica voted for

 

[Victorian Gray]

The richest, best armed banana republic in the world. Oorah!

 

[interchange]

I think I have to vote with America on this one. Without such actions we don't have election integrity which means our free system of government would be a sham. I believe the founding fathers intended to empower Americans to ensure their freedom endured above all else, trying to give them power to stop a tyrannical government.

 

[dank69]

As much as I hate trump, the precedent this sets is very bad.

If I had faith that the elected officials in Congress would have good oversight over our intelligence agencies, maybe, it might be acceptable but even still I'd have serious reservations about this behavior.

The fact that the various intelligence agencies think they know best by keeping things from the president is very concerning.

Personally, I'd keep trump informed and if he responded by say, informing the Russians or stopping such counterintelligence, then I'd leak it to the public and impeach the traitor.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of protecting the American public from their own bad decisions. We voted to turn power over to Putin. Give the people what they want. Better Russian than Democrat.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No they didn’t we already have Congress ceding their power to the President, been happening since 9/11 so #bothsides!
We do not need the Military making their own decisions and the President effectively ceding His power to them.

 

[HomerJS]

I don't think either of those two choices is correct.

Probably somewhere in the middle. More likely informed with no details.

If it was your job launching a counter offensive on Russia to protect the US would you tell Trump? Base you answer on his behavior in the past.

 

[HomerJS]

As much as I hate trump, the precedent this sets is very bad.

If I had faith that the elected officials in Congress would have good oversight over our intelligence agencies, maybe, it might be acceptable but even still I'd have serious reservations about this behavior.

The fact that the various intelligence agencies think they know best by keeping things from the president is very concerning.

Personally, I'd keep trump informed and if he responded by say, informing the Russians or stopping such counterintelligence, then I'd leak it to the public and impeach the traitor.

Trump meets with Putin and kicks everyone out of the room except the translators. How would we know he told Putin?

Is it better for our agencies just to lie to Trump assuming he will tell Putin?

I agree it sets a very bad precedent but isn't is better then trusting Trump? In this case Trump signed over authority to cyber command. I guarantee Trump didn't read the details of what he signed.

 

[sdifox]

As long as it was cleared by Congress's national security committee.

 

[hal2kilo]

Thank you, patriots, for protecting us from the traitor in chief.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

Simplest way to get around tell the Don is to just make a really long briefing with big words and give it to him just before fox and friends. you are 100% clear to do anything and say..."we briefed him".

But on the poll side, i do think that if this is true it's unfortunate and dangerous. We have these long standing systems in place to make sure there are check across the board to all level of government. circumventing them is not a good thing.

 

[dainthomas]

Fantastic. No congressional oversight of him, and no civilian control of military due to his idiocy. Things couldn't be going better. Yay winning!

 

[HomerJS]

Some people prefer this over any Democrat. Librul tears I guess.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Simplest way to get around tell the Don is to just make a really long briefing with big words and give it to him just before fox and friends. you are 100% clear to do anything and say..."we briefed him".

But on the poll side, i do think that if this is true it's unfortunate and dangerous. We have these long standing systems in place to make sure there are check across the board to all level of government. circumventing them is not a good thing.

I was thinking the same thing. Assuming I was in control of the program I’d make the briefing as long as possible, printed in Black & White, no color, no photos, no video, no condensed foot notes, lots of big boring words.
It’s the Presidents responsibility to read and understand or ask for guidance if needed.
I’m not saying make it impossible to read, I’m saying prepare it like virtually every other briefing in history.

 

[UNCjigga]

As much as I hate trump, the precedent this sets is very bad.

If I had faith that the elected officials in Congress would have good oversight over our intelligence agencies, maybe, it might be acceptable but even still I'd have serious reservations about this behavior.

The fact that the various intelligence agencies think they know best by keeping things from the president is very concerning.

Personally, I'd keep trump informed and if he responded by say, informing the Russians or stopping such counterintelligence, then I'd leak it to the public and impeach the traitor.

I think there is a fair bit of media spin around this story designed to make Trump appear weak (of course he is.) Reality—this was by design of the White House to leave Trump out of the loop.

Tucked away in one of the more recent spending bills was elevated status and authorization allowing US Cyber Command to conduct electronic attacks without the prior approval of the President (just cleared through DoD.) This was by design of the White House, apparently (who knows how “aware” Trump is of anything his staff is doing though?)

Article from last year:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/politics/cyber-command-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Key language from the NDAA from August 2018: https://www.afcea.org/content/key-cyber-provisions-ndaa

“Although past NDAA legislation has included some provisions on DOD’s cyber role, this year’s bill specifies that the Secretary of Defense has the authority to conduct military cyber activities or operations in cyberspace—including clandestine activities—to defend the United States and its allies.

The NDAA 2019 allows the United States to employ “all instruments of national power,” including offensive cyber capabilities. This includes response to foreign powers targeting U.S. interests, causing casualties of U.S. citizens or significantly disrupting the functionality of the U.S. democratic—including attacks against critical infrastructure. It also includes threats to the command and control of the U.S. forces, the freedom of maneuver of the military, the industrial base or other infrastructure that U.S. forces rely on to defend the country, and its interests.

If Russia, China, North Korea or Iran are conducting “an active, systematic and ongoing campaign” of cyber attacks, including attempts to influence American elections and democratic processes, the National Command Authority (NCA)—the commander-in-chief, [or] the Secretary of Defense and other highest-level commanding officers—may authorize the Secretary, through the commander of the U.S. Cyber Command “to take appropriate and proportional action to disrupt, defeat and deter such attacks,” by conducting cyber and information operations as well as traditional military activities, according to the NDAA 2019.”

If I’m reading this right, it sounds like Pat Shanahan or other DoD big wigs have the authority to launch [counter]attacks without Trump’s express approval.

 

[alien42]

If I’m reading this right, it sounds like Pat Shanahan or other DoD big wigs have the authority to launch [counter]attacks without Trump’s express approval.

that is correct under last years National Defense Authorization Act.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-cybe...nal-countermeasures-statutory-authorities-and

 

[dainthomas]

that is correct under last years National Defense Authorization Act.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-cybe...nal-countermeasures-statutory-authorities-and

Hopefully that gets reversed when we have a literate president again. I'd rather have the president have some sort of awareness of major cyber operations.

 

[zinfamous]

US Cyber Command did the correct thing in engaging without the president's approval, which is a terrible thing to admit, but it is inarguably true that this is where we are right now.

POTUS can not currently be trusted to defend the US against Russian interests. He very publicly admitted this, in front of the world, on two occasions now.

He is a thoroughly compromised asset for Valdimir Putin's Russia and all of his friends, as they and their allies in Saudi Arabia hold the entire debt of the Trump and Kushner families. This is probably the biggest threat to international security since fascism last ran hell through Western Europe in the 20s and 30s.

 

[UNCjigga]

If I’m reading this right, it sounds like Pat Shanahan or other DoD big wigs have the authority to launch [counter]attacks without Trump’s express approval.

And just like that, the pussy-in-chief is now saying Pat Shanahan will not go through the confirmation process to be SecDef.

Edit: Somehow an incident from 2010 is suddenly making the rounds:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ife-domestic-violence-altercation/1470811001/

Anyone who thinks this is not related to the NYT story on cyberattacks against Russia is a moron. Trump just essentially fired a Defense Secretary to appease Putin.

Alarm bells ringing yet, conservatives???

 

[ivwshane]

There are too many people who quoted me to respond individually so this reply goes to everyone.

First; there are other options besides not telling the president something and not counter attacking our enemies.

As another poster said, they could go to the intelligence committee in Congress and brief them with their concerns about the issue and the president and have their actions approved.

They could resign in protest and make public statements.

At the end of the day though, there are two remedies and one can happen quicker than the other.

You either impeach trump or you vote him out but you can go around the president, that is not how our government works.

 

[HomerJS]

There are too many people who quoted me to respond individually so this reply goes to everyone.

First; there are other options besides not telling the president something and not counter attacking our enemies.

As another poster said, they could go to the intelligence committee in Congress and brief them with their concerns about the issue and the president and have their actions approved.

They could resign in protest and make public statements.

At the end of the day though, there are two remedies and one can happen quicker than the other.

You either impeach trump or you vote him out but you can go around the president, that is not how our government works.

Impeaching with a Senate that will never vote him out is virtually pointless. Meanwhile we leave ourselves vulnerable in the 2020 elections