Poll: Were we within days of a major attack from Iran? Justification for assassination of Suleimani

[ch33zw1z]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

Meh

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[TheVrolok]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

Trump has a history of incessant lying.

Pompeo has already admitted they don't know where or when attacks were coming.

Why rational reason could you possibly have to give Trump the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Meghan54]

I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Why? What has he shown anyone that justified his actions? Anything? Only thing I've heard repeated over and over is this imminent attack.....that we didn't know where, when, or if it was about to happen....just that there were gonna be attacks somewhere on earth. Which, I guess, is probably right if you count somewhere a Somali is going to try to attack a ship.....or someone in Syria is going to shoot at a Kurd......

Juxtapose that to damned near every administration prior to Trump's. Almost every case of military intervention has had public justifications presented to the U.S. public. Not weasel words like "Soon there'll be an imminent attack somewhere, some place, some time.....we don't know for sure when, where or how, but it was coming, I promise!!!"

And please tell me, why would killing the leader prevent the imminent attack from taking place? Seems to reasonable people that the assassination would have guaranteed the attack to be carried out.....but that doesn't seem to be the case. Guess we showed them, right? LOL!

 

[HomerJS]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

Trump made the claim an embassy was about to be blown up. Not one member of Congress has confirmed this. We have had members specifically deny this (allowed from classified briefing since Trump said in public). In case you didn't see it, Republican Mike Lee's assessment. Let's roll the tape.

We all know Trump lies on a regular basis about all things big and small. I would say lies more then he tells the truth. Still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Bitek]

So, if it was an immediate threat, then why:

1. Was Trump walking around maralogo golf club bragging about "big action on Iran coming soon" days before the attack?

2. Why would we strike a general? He's not the operational guy. Where are the strikes on the terror cells? Where are the munitions seizures? Why haven't we actually stopped the team?

3. Why is this just coming out now, a week after the assassination? This wasn't even in the briefing to Congress. Did he just forget?

Alternatively, it could be that he's lying. They aren't even good ones...

Shocking, I know.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeh, it was perfectly fine to murder the personal emissary of the Ayatollah Khamenei while he was on a diplomatic mission in Iraq. And kill half a dozen high ranking Iraqi officials who were with him. Because imminent threats & shit. Because he was a bad guy. Fuck them people. If the Iraqis, our strategic partners, don't like it, fuck them too. Hail Trump! He alone can fix it! Strong Leader! He made Iran stand down!

And never forget- the server... they say Ukraine has it.

If this is a consular ship then where is the ambassador?

Kill him because he is a bad guy and due to a decade long vendetta? Not worth the escalation.

Kill him because he is directly responsible for killing Americans? Arguable.

Killing him because we have intelligence that he was actively planning an attack on our embassy? Justified.

Pompeo needs to provide proof of the imminent threat he and others cited.

 

[Bitek]

If this is a consular ship then where is the ambassador?

Kill him because he is a bad guy and due to a decade long vendetta? Not worth the escalation.

Kill him because he is directly responsible for killing Americans? Arguable.

Killing him because we have intelligence that he was actively planning an attack on our embassy? Justified.

Pompeo needs to provide proof of the imminent threat he and others cited.

You literally listed the sequence of failed justifications this admin has put out.
Maybe third time is a charm... Maybe WMDs are next if this doesn't pan out over the last week.

Quit trying to blame this all on Pompeo tho. He's not POTUS, he's not the CIC, he's not even the SecDef.

This was Trump's call, he's made clear he's the boss, he's the one claiming "he took the shot."

 

[HomerJS]

This is ultimately what I was afraid of. Someone who is a serial liar has no credibility.

It's all fun and games when he lies about crowd size but now we have something serious. I can't believe a word he says.

 

[ivwshane]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

So you’ll ignore:

Multiple Congress peoples claim that the admin provided no evidence of an eminent threat?

That multiple people from this administration, including trump, have given different reasons for justifying the assassination including: eminent threat on or embassy(s), he was planning an attack on our troops. Of which no member of congress has confirmed were told to them in the briefing?

The fact that killing a top general would not stop any such plan from being carried out?

The fact that Pompeo himself has given different reasons for the assassination at different times, changing his story from; he was a bad guy who was planning an attack on our soldiers, to he was a bad guy who was behind many attacks that killed our soldiers?

So you think an administration that has lied repeatedly to congress and the American people, a narcissistic president who has told over 15000 verified lies since becoming president, who has done whatever they can to block congressional oversight, who has been impeached for abuse of power by pressuring foreign powers to commit acts that would affect his main political rival, during an election year while he’s being impeached, that somehow he deserves the benefit of the doubt?

I’m guessing you aren’t very good at math because none of this adds up. None of it!

 

[kage69]

Arrogant & stupid are the words you want.

What I want is for you to either agree, disagree, or ignore my posts altogether. Can't go wrong just speaking for yourself.

But this imperious professor routine of yours, ugh.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You literally listed the sequence of failed justifications this admin has put out.
Maybe third time is a charm... Maybe WMDs are next if this doesn't pan out over the last week.

Quit trying to blame this all on Pompeo tho. He's not POTUS, he's not the CIC, he's not even the SecDef.

This was Trump's call, he's made clear he's the boss, he's the one claiming "he took the shot."

I layed out three, one as justified, one as arguable, one as unjustified.

They’ve presented the unjustified argument.

They’ve dabbled with the arguable one.

They have yet to produce compelling evidence for the justified reason.

Yes, Trump is ultimately accountable, but its also clear that Pompeo heavily persuaded that decision.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I layed out three, one as justified, one as arguable, one as unjustified.

They’ve presented the unjustified argument.

They’ve dabbled with the arguable one.

They have yet to produce compelling evidence for the justified reason.

Yes, Trump is ultimately accountable, but its also clear that Pompeo heavily persuaded that decision.

For most presidencies, no decision the president makes is done in a vacuum. Now with trump that's generally not a 100% surety since he shoots from the hip (directly into his own ass) more often than not, but this one I suspect was not made in a vacuum at all. Given the tweet regarding the WSJ article linked in the other thread, I suspect this was 100% orchestrated by GOP senators to wag the dog, and get impeachment off everyone's brain.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1215644318989418496

Trump’s New National Security Team Made Fast Work of Iran Strike

White House advisers were cohesive and less inclined than their predecessors to push back against the president’s wishes. They also were less likely to consult in advance with others, including congressional leaders and foreign allies.

www.wsj.com

 

[kage69]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

That you feel they deserve the benefit of a doubt tells me you either don't recall the last 20 years, or don't care.

So probably not worth asking you to give an example of Trump making an informed decision, likewise for his admin doing everything it can to not inform Congress over the operation.

Sounds like what it comes down to is just plain old "I hope" Trump is right. I seem to recall conservatives mocking that notion a bit in the not too distant past, how odd.

 

[Jhhnn]

Since I do not have the classified intel in front of me to review myself (and probably never will), I'm going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. As much as people love playing armchair quarterback when it comes to politics around here, we're not able to make informed decisions like the president can. The information to make those decisions that we're gleaming from just watching our biased news outlets of choice is sorely lacking.

So, Trump messed with your mind, huh?

What is our policy wrt Iraq? That they are a sovereign govt & our strategic partners. So let's bomb their state militia & murder the special representative of the Ayatollah in their country while he's there to meet with the PM. Because reasons. Because imminent undefined threats. Because they're lookin' at us funny. Because Pompeo has a personal vendetta against Soleimani. Because the people running our govt are arrogant & stupid. Our troops best pack their shit & clear out so they won't be taking any lead in their asses.

 

[Bitek]

I layed out three, one as justified, one as arguable, one as unjustified.

They’ve presented the unjustified argument.

They’ve dabbled with the arguable one.

They have yet to produce compelling evidence for the justified reason.

Yes, Trump is ultimately accountable, but its also clear that Pompeo heavily persuaded that decision.

@alcoholbob

So, how much different would the argument be for a strike against Saddam, or Kim Jong Un?

Bad guy? Check
Killed Americans? Check
Has weapons? Check

Hell, KJU has nukes, was threatening a "Christmas Present", and is promising a new weapon is ready soon.

Boom. Trump should just assassinate him.

Let's not think about it. Just do it.

Let's just think through the consequences and bullshit some justifications later.
Blame an underling if it goes south.

"Pompeo? Don't really know the guy. Maybe met him in a couple meetings. I don't know anything about it, you'll have to talk to him..."

 

[Jhhnn]

If this is a consular ship then where is the ambassador?

Kill him because he is a bad guy and due to a decade long vendetta? Not worth the escalation.

Kill him because he is directly responsible for killing Americans? Arguable.

Killing him because we have intelligence that he was actively planning an attack on our embassy? Justified.

Pompeo needs to provide proof of the imminent threat he and others cited.

Or, Trump is lying. Like that never happened before. It's great how he gets away with it. He threatened Iran with severe retaliation if they attacked our assets. They attacked our assets. The first words out of his mouth were "All is well. Looks like Iran is standing down." They called his bluff & he folded. I'm glad he did.

 

[cytg111]

Alright crazy libs, Imminent threat : The point is, I think, we dont have the classified intel that sells this narrative. Yes I know its leaking and yes its an extremely partisan time frame and yes... we know that a few Repussians have broken rank and spoken against the intel briefing <— whoch IMO is the biggest indicator that its a sham. Still its not a lot to go on. Trump is an asshole he most der did this for some kind of personal gain. You need the proof though... RIGHT?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Or, Trump is lying. Like that never happened before. It's great how he gets away with it. He threatened Iran with severe retaliation if they attacked our assets. They attacked our assets. The first words out of his mouth were "All is well. Looks like Iran is standing down." They called his bluff & he folded. I'm glad he did.

An alternate explanation is that Iran is not accustomed to an unpredictable American President directly targeting them. Lobbing a few missiles at an empty base let them save face. They’re the ones who signaled quite loudly that “they’re done”. They folded. Probably best before they shoot down any more civilian aircraft.

 

[HomerJS]

Alright crazy libs, Imminent threat : The point is, I think, we dont have the classified intel that sells this narrative. Yes I know its leaking and yes its an extremely partisan time frame and yes... we know that a few Repussians have broken rank and spoken against the intel briefing <— whoch IMO is the biggest indicator that its a sham. Still its not a lot to go on. Trump is an asshole he most der did this for some kind of personal gain. You need the proof though... RIGHT?

We don't have the classified info however since Trump said Iran was going to blow up an embassy, members of Congress have already said this isn't true. Since President Big Mouth made the embassy claim, talking about is NOT a leak.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Past actions, genius.

If there was such an imminent threat Trump needed to goto Congress...cough...cough...Constitution...cough

If he needed to take action immediately he must justify to Congress in 48 hours...cough...cough...law...Constitution...cough.

Trump did neither. When he finally got around to briefing 6 days later it was all vague horseshit (bi-partisan assessment)

Now, tell us again how you respect the Constitution??

Only to declare war, not to protect Americans or our interests *cough* read the Constitution *cough*

 

[Bitek]

An alternate explanation is that Iran is not accustomed to an unpredictable American President directly targeting them. Lobbing a few missiles at an empty base let them save face. They’re the ones who signaled quite loudly that “they’re done”. They folded. Probably best before they shoot down any more civilian aircraft.

OR... Direct confrontation is not their style, never has been, and prefer to work indirectly.

They are not fools. They know they can't withstand a full assault. A different strategy is required.

All you guys rallying behind Trump just cannot speak to this reality, cannot articulate a clear strategy to counteract Iran, and cannot explain how this action has improved our position.

All indications this was a small temporary victory that has put our entire 17yr mission in Iraq in peril and gives them cover to restart their nuclear program.

"Bbbbuht... He whus a turrrist" doesn't cut it

 

[woolfe9998]

So, if it was an immediate threat, then why:

1. Was Trump walking around maralogo golf club bragging about "big action on Iran coming soon" days before the attack?

2. Why would we strike a general? He's not the operational guy. Where are the strikes on the terror cells? Where are the munitions seizures? Why haven't we actually stopped the team?

3. Why is this just coming out now, a week after the assassination? This wasn't even in the briefing to Congress. Did he just forget?

Alternatively, it could be that he's lying. They aren't even good ones...

Shocking, I know.

Yes, killing this general would not stop an "imminent" attack. Accordingly, their rationale makes no sense and is therefore suspicious for that reason alone.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yes, killing this general would not stop an "imminent" attack. Accordingly, their rationale makes no sense and is therefore suspicious for that reason alone.

everybody knows they lie. Its not worth clock cycles.

 

[cytg111]

We don't have the classified info however since Trump said Iran was going to blow up an embassy, members of Congress have already said this isn't true. Since President Big Mouth made the embassy claim, talking about is NOT a leak.

I mean think about it. What is the accusation here? Isnt this 10x, 100x worse than the Ukraine Quid Pro Quo deal? If its true? Trump slamming drones down on some semi random bad dude without warning to anyone outside of Mar a Lago - in exchange for backup at his impeachment trial in the Senate?

 

[cytg111]

Only to declare war, not to protect Americans or our interests *cough* read the Constitution *cough*

Oh my, it would be a shame if that cough was something bad.