Poll: What are your religious/theologic beliefs

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
So if I may seem so bold as to condense. To be metaphysical you, neither believe in a creator god nor do you believe in a soul. This may seem indivisible but many Hindu believe in a soul that reincarnates but do not believe in a creator god. Some are panentheistic and believe that all life is one big soul that has variable penitrance into the physical realm.

You have atheistic beliefs, but contend that ones actions have lasting effects. you believe
But do these effects fade with time, or is there a true "butterfly" effect. Do we produce just ripples in the stream or do we alter its course?

It depends. One has to recognize that humanity is not necessarily one, but is a collective. If a large enough portion of the collective wishes to uphold the past momentum established by one or a few individuals, then yes, an individual's actions can have lasting effects. If the collective wishes to step aside and ignore the actions of one or many, then the effects will fade.

We are an animal. We are driven entirely by chemical activity in the nervous system. We have complicated that a bit with self-awareness, however that ended up coming to be a reality... but the important part is, imho, we have no limit in terms of progress. Our thoughts cannot merge, but many minds can be put to the same task, which in situations can be like a super computer in that multiple units are working on the same problem. There will be deviations, there will be similar results, and as long as the individuals continue to contribute their input so that others can build off what they have thought up in their mind, the entire collective remains capable of learning more and more. One of the first problem-solving issues we arrived at, was how to teach our young when our species was ancient. As time passed on, language came to be, with it came complex thoughts. Etc etc etc.

My point? :hmm:


Our individuals actions can have insanely lasting effects, it all depends on the weight of the actions and how they are perceived by others. Look at education... advanced education is essentially summing up thousands of years worth of musings and creative work on the part of others. Not every little bit gets attributed to the person who contributed, but what they did helped lead the way. Chaos theory, applied in the more simple, local concept of the butterfly effect, can definitely be seen with humans. If one person didn't think of something, others might not have ever had the chance to ponder it and add their own thoughts to the mix. Now, it must also be said that no human is unique in their personality or behavior. We can be made into something a little more unique through environmental contributions (family, schools, social circles, personal experiences, etc) but ultimately the brain structure, chemical activity, and the genetics that led to that, set in place the base personality of an individual.
Anyhow... that means that while 1 person someone started a chain reaction of work on a specific topic, it cannot be argued that nobody would have never thought of the same first thing somewhere else. Now, how long after? Who knows. And the people who would have come across that different person's musings? Unknown. Various concepts and theories could end up looking quite different even when the same original idea was exactly the same, or many years later, the end result could be the exact same. We are predictable and yet greatly unpredictable, because society and who is privy to know about an individual's actions can greatly change the events that will follow. The immediately following effects could be different, and still wind up at the same place.

Take the concept of "history repeats itself." It truly does. We can take certain actions, and the immediately following events can be "unique", yet as time passes, and more actors contribute their own actions, the effects quite often start resembling the effects of something long ago. We see it all the time, on the small scale, or on the global scale. By we, I'd have to argue that depends on who is looking. Not everyone will see the same details, and some people would argue every single event that has ever happened in unique. I argue the opposite, but that's how I perceive the world.

Global consciousness? I don't believe in such a thing. That is not to say we have not behaved in such a way that such a thing could never be perceived, but in a wholly physical sense, I don't think it exists. But our thoughts and actions, if we choose to make them known, can over time spread through the minds of anyone who cares to learn of them. Will anything happen as a result? Maybe, maybe not.

Our progress as a species, and by progress I mean our unification, our technological, medical, and scientific advancements, and our push into territory we've never known (and the effects on society may be completely new as well), is rooted in individuals. Some person who may be a genius in 20 years, may be at a crossroads right now that on one end may result in never achieving that genius status. We can never know for sure what any individual is ultimately capable of, because individual choices and environmental impacts can create vastly different outcomes, at every moment in life. One person's choice 5 years ago could lead to progressively different choices later if they had made a different choice. Or it may not. Each choice will also carry different weight, but it can also be hard to attribute and classify every moment.
One person's success may even depend upon an individual making certain choices, and these two people may never meet.
Isn't that a fun thought?
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Atheist, but of the weak variety. I am of the opinion that there is no God, no soul, and no afterlife. I am of the opinion that these things are fabrications borne of humanity's desire for eternal life and consequent fear of death and that religions of all sorts bear the obvious hallmarks of having been created by humans, for humans.

I say that I am of the weak variety of Atheist because I realize that my opinions are based on the finite knowledge I have collected thus far in my life and could be wrong. I don't think I'm wrong, but I admit the possibility. I separate myself from the agnostic by having an opinion in the direction of atheism, and I separate myself from the strong atheist by not possessing the pseudo-religious certitude displayed by that extreme, which coincidentally is present in nearly all true theists as well.
 

mattpegher

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2006
2,207
0
71
Any Hindus or Buddhists, I find it interesting that with the tech heavy population that we don't have any. I recently have been reading about them and from a metaphysical aspect, I find the theology interesting. Unfortunately many of the terms have unclear definitions or correlates in judeochristian theology.
 

EGGO

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,505
1
0
I voted other. I'm a part of the I Don't Give a Shit religion. Thinking about it is a pointless waste of time, even to go as far as agnostic, or athiest. It might be fun to speculate while laying around, kind of the way I wonder what it would be like to travel to the other side of the universe. In the end though, it's pointless....

Ah, I found another follower of this religion.
 

ahenkel

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2009
5,359
3
81
I voted other. I believe in the church of the Apathetic Agnostic. I don't know and I don't care.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I was raised in a catholic/agnostic mixture. both my parents are from catholic families; my dad goes to church every week and my mom is strictly a weddings/funerals church-goer. between going through my confirmation and attending Jesuit schools, it's probably safe to say that I generally ascribe to roman catholic values in my personal life.

more broadly speaking, though, I believe that there's a power at work in the universe that's greater than myself that I choose to refer to as god. I don't necessarily believe that there's any "proper" way to worship god and that everyone who believes differently from me will suffer eternal damnation.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Very interesting, could you elaborate.
Thanks

In a nutshell: I believe in an all-powerful God. I believe his will is beyond human comprehension unless he decided to explicitly tell us, and I see no evidence of such a communication. I claim no knowledge of his affairs.

I believe in heaven and hell, because it feels right. Yes, I'm going off of feelings on this one. That's faith. Keep in mind though I say "believe" not "know", and I certainly don't live my life around either. I believe good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, and that there are multiple definitions of both categories.

Unencumbered by the strict regulations of some faiths, I believe in reveling in being human. I'll be the best human I can be, and if that isn't enough for God, then I guess someone else got it right. In any case, I'll worry about the afterlife after life.

I am of the opinion that all religious texts are man made and are no more holy than Harry Potter. Even (for the sake of argument) assuming that they are divinely inspired, they were still written by humans, and are thus prone to the entire spectrum of human faults. You can't pump pure water through a swamp and expect it to come out pure on the other side.

I do not attend any organized functions in a religious capacity.

I do pray from time to time, but only while under great stress. I figure if it's humanly possible to get through something I'll get through it. If not, I'll call on the big man. Either way I expect no response to my prayers, and admit that any positive outcome could just be a placebo effect. But it could be God's intervention, so I thank him anyway to cover my ass.

My faith is a side effect of who I am, not the other way around.
 
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Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
You forgot to add anti-theist to the poll. Theres a lot of them around ATOT. Though they probably mistakenly think of themselves as atheists.
 
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tyler811

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2002
5,387
0
71
Absolutely not on both accounts. That's also to say that law doesn't make right. Just because something's codified in a book somewhere, doesn't mean you have any moral obligation to follow it. Marijuana laws are a good example. Marijuana is just a plant. It grows, and people can use it, or not. Using it isn't morally wrong, but forbidding others to because... well just because "they" say so(?!) is.

As far as animals go... It's pretty obvious how they'd want to be treated. an animal can be happy, or not. If you're the cause of the animal's unhappiness, you're being a dick. I don't take it to the level Buddhists do, maybe I'm just a dick, but ticks and mosquitoes can go to hell; along with the ants on my counter :^D

So forbidding people to shoot each is morally wrong?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,659
7,892
126
So forbidding people to shoot each is morally wrong?

That's a pretty big jump you're making there. You just took the act of driving to the corner store, and extrapolated that to intergalactic travel. If you honestly can't see the difference, we have nothing to talk about.
 

mattpegher

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2006
2,207
0
71
Lately, i have been trending toward a panentheistic view, with a gradiation of evil weighing necessity, preventability and global outcome as mitigating factors. Sort of a modernist bend on Buddhist concepts.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
I'm not at all a spiritual person, so my beliefs could probably be summed up with: There may be a "god" but who the fuck cares since such a thing does not manifest itself in any kind of way that supports any evidence for its existence.
 

SoCalAznGuy

Banned
Mar 28, 2010
120
0
0
Scary how many people still believe in fairy tales, this day an age. Really some people are stuck in the dark ages.
 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,440
101
91
Scary how many people still believe in fairy tales, this day an age. Really some people are stuck in the dark ages.
And yet religion and faith are universally found in every culture, and brain scans show different activity when subjects engage in activities regarding faith, such as prayer. Clearly there was an evolutionary purpose to faith, for it to last so long and have such an observable effect. The questions then become:
1. What do you think that purpose is/was?
2. Why do you ridicule and despise people who are merely experiencing what they evolved to experience?

 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
1. What do you think that purpose is/was?

It's to answer questions that no one can answer and with those answers, you control the masses through fear of some invisible yet all-powerful being. It actually kind of reminds me of an anime (Gurren Lagann) that I watched a bit ago. The main character asked the bad guy why he didn't just explain the situation to them rather than acting like a suppressor. He said something along the lines of, "It wouldn't have worked... I had to use fear to keep you in line." Little more to it than that, but you get the idear.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
And yet religion and faith are universally found in every culture, and brain scans show different activity when subjects engage in activities regarding faith, such as prayer. Clearly there was an evolutionary purpose to faith, for it to last so long and have such an observable effect. The questions then become:
1. What do you think that purpose is/was?
2. Why do you ridicule and despise people who are merely experiencing what they evolved to experience?


There's no purpose for anything in our brain beyond supporting the continuation of life.
I definitely recognize spirituality as something that is in our genetics, it is a very natural process.
And I think, against my own personal beliefs, we need to do everything to support spirituality throughout our future. Everyone, absolutely everyone, has some method of approaching the spiritual void in their brain. Some people subscribe to organized religion, some people have their own beliefs that merely keep it at a "there is a god, we know nothing of it" level, and others have their own little amusing beliefs/ideas that no matter the specifics, allow them to continue throughout their daily lives. Everyone believing life is absolutely pointless with nothing beyond that, could lead to a rather destructive mess of civilization. Is that what I believe? Yes, but I also support that with my animal nature and own little ideas that keep me going. Ultimately, very few people can simply accept life for the pointless game it is, and continue living a productive life. It's a very depressing and dark idea, and ultimately did make life kind of a struggle for me for a little while. Everyone has their demons and most will figure a way to get through them. In the end, I support whatever it takes for people to get through their demons. For some people, that is belief in a higher power.

I despise organized religion though.
Humans don't need it to be organized. Humans do need access or support for faith of some type, a spirituality of some sort. As I alluded to above, it is how our brain works.
And ultimately, it is there to make it more rewarding to continue staying alive, to find a mate, make babies, and raise them. We are a complicated species where it takes over 1/4 of our life for parts of our brain to fully mature, and that requires a lengthy process of parental care with dedicated parental figures. That takes a lot of mental effort to see through the depressing moments of life. There's a lot of self-medicating that happens when spirituality is made a part of your life. It's the body's natural placebo effect, if you will. All the potential of the regions of our brain involved in spirituality shows evidence of the brain playing with chemical balances, which can do things from increased energy, more rewarding socialization, pain reduction, and mental stamina in general. There is a lot to be had from believing, and it's all in the brain. You believe you are getting strength from elsewhere, but yet it's all in your head. That is just awesome imho.
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,230
2
0
There might be a "creator" out there, but its not the omnipotent being religious people think of, thats just stupid

If whatever originated life on earth is still out there, it might or might not be more advanced than us (think along the lines of Star Trek the original movie, humans send probe to space > probe becomes technologically more advanced than humanity itself)

Could be whats happening here, or maybe they still are superior and out of our comprehension, who knows

But lol, thinking of God has someone that watches over us and stuff, thats hilarious, cmon get real, theres no such thing
 
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