Poll: Who's version of the IG report do you believe? The report investigating the origins of the Russia probe.

[crashtech]

Submitted for your perusal, a rare public order from the Presiding Judge of the FISC, Rosemary M. Collyer:

https://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/MIsc%2019%2002%20191217.pdf

Selected excerpts:

This order responds to reports that personnel of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)provided false information to the National Security Division (NSD) of the Department of Justice, and withheld material information from NSD which was detrimental to the FBI's case, in connection with four applications to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) for authority to conduct electronic surveillance of a U.S. citizen named Carter W. Page. When FBI personnel mislead NSD in the ways described above, they equally mislead the FISC...

..."Congress intended...to provide an external check on executive branch decisions to conduct surveillance" in order ''to protect the fourth amendment rights of U.S. persons." The FISC's assessment of probable cause can serve those purposes effectively only if the applicant agency fully and accurately provides information in its possession that is material to whether probable cause exists. Accordingly, "the government ... has a heightened duty of candor to the [FISC] in ex parte proceedings,"...The FISC "expects the government to comply with its heightened duty of candor in ex parte proceedings at all times. Candor is fundamental to this Court's effective operation...

...an attorney in the FBI's Office of General Counsel (OGC) engaged in conduct that apparently was intended to mislead the FBI agent who ultimately swore to the facts in that application about whether Mr. Page had been a source of another government agency... Because the conduct of the OGC attorney gave rise to serious concerns about the accuracy and completeness of the information provided to the FISC in any matter in which the OGC attorney was involved, the Court ordered the government on December 5, 2019, to, among other things, provide certain information addressing those concerns...


...The FBI's handling of the Carter Page applications, as portrayed in the OIG report, was antithetical to the heightened duty of candor described above. The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable. The FISC expects the government to provide complete and accurate information in every filing with the Court. Without it, the FISC cannot properly ensure that the government conducts electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes only when there is a sufficient factual basis.

I did not wish to vote in the poll, but this new information does not help the credibility of the FBI re its handling of Crossfire Hurricane. If one believes that the means justify the ends, this order is not cause for concern. But, the precedent of providing false information to a secret court to effectively violate the 4th Amendment rights of a US citizen can justifiably be cause for alarm, even if one agrees with the underlying purpose of the investigation.

 

[HomerJS]

Submitted for your perusal, a rare public order from the Presiding Judge of the FISC, Rosemary M. Collyer:

https://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/MIsc%2019%2002%20191217.pdf

Selected excerpts:



I did not wish to vote in the poll, but this new information does not help the credibility of the FBI re its handling of Crossfire Hurricane. If one believes that the means justify the ends, this order is not cause for concern. But, the precedent of providing false information to a secret court to effectively violate the 4th Amendment rights of a US citizen can justifiably be cause for alarm, even if one agrees with the underlying purpose of the investigation.

Both can be true.

 

[ivwshane]

Submitted for your perusal, a rare public order from the Presiding Judge of the FISC, Rosemary M. Collyer:

https://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/MIsc%2019%2002%20191217.pdf

Selected excerpts:



I did not wish to vote in the poll, but this new information does not help the credibility of the FBI re its handling of Crossfire Hurricane. If one believes that the means justify the ends, this order is not cause for concern. But, the precedent of providing false information to a secret court to effectively violate the 4th Amendment rights of a US citizen can justifiably be cause for alarm, even if one agrees with the underlying purpose of the investigation.

Yeah it’s pretty bad and congress has been petty shitty at its job of providing oversight of the various intelligence agencies. Hell, three years later and we are still waiting for any accountability for the New York office leaking info to Giuliani.

 

[Jhhnn]

Submitted for your perusal, a rare public order from the Presiding Judge of the FISC, Rosemary M. Collyer:

https://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/MIsc%2019%2002%20191217.pdf

Selected excerpts:



I did not wish to vote in the poll, but this new information does not help the credibility of the FBI re its handling of Crossfire Hurricane. If one believes that the means justify the ends, this order is not cause for concern. But, the precedent of providing false information to a secret court to effectively violate the 4th Amendment rights of a US citizen can justifiably be cause for alarm, even if one agrees with the underlying purpose of the investigation.

It's just one guy who screwed up. So now they'll revise their procedures to prevent it from happening in the future. Barr still comes away with nothing to support his illegal spying conspiracy theory.

 

[pmv]

Is it possible Trump will now announce the setting up of an investigation into this investigation (that investigated the previous investigation)?

 

[crashtech]

It's just one guy who screwed up. So now they'll revise their procedures to prevent it from happening in the future. Barr still comes away with nothing to support his illegal spying conspiracy theory.

The excerpts I posted may have given the wrong impression. I don't think there's any evidence to support the "just one guy" assertion; a full reading of the judge's order refers to multiple instances of misconduct. Also she makes it clear that the Dec 5th order from the FISC will be publicly released sometime after Dec 20th.

 

[Jhhnn]

The excerpts I posted may have given the wrong impression. I don't think there's any evidence to support the "just one guy" assertion; a full reading of the judge's order refers to multiple instances of misconduct. Also she makes it clear that the Dec 5th order from the FISC will be publicly released sometime after Dec 20th.

So what? The same guy doing the same thing more than once creates multiple instances. It doesn't matter for shit, anyway, because Barr has disavowed the OIG report because it shot his big lie conspiracy theory right in the ass. Picking at the FBI changes that not at all.

 

[crashtech]

So what? The same guy doing the same thing more than once creates multiple instances. It doesn't matter for shit, anyway, because Barr has disavowed the OIG report because it shot his big lie conspiracy theory right in the ass. Picking at the FBI changes that not at all.

I don't blame you for only focusing on the political ramifications. I'm not here to engage that though, just to provide information that seems to be under-reported by most of the MSM. Do with it what you will, but keep in mind that it's the judge at the head of the FISC court doing the "picking at," in a highly unusual public rebuke.

Tell you what guys, I opposed the Patriot Act from day 1. Incrementally giving up our 4th Amendment freedoms was never worth it, and now it's enmeshed into the fabric of the intelligence community. This is just one more tiny encroachment, but I guess as long as they aren't coming for you or yours, there's nothing to see here? I mean, as long as we all have nothing to hide, why worry about the surveillance state at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't blame you for only focusing on the political ramifications. I'm not here to engage that though, just to provide information that seems to be under-reported by most of the MSM. Do with it what you will, but keep in mind that it's the judge at the head of the FISC court doing the "picking at," in a highly unusual public rebuke.

Tell you what guys, I opposed the Patriot Act from day 1. Incrementally giving up our 4th Amendment freedoms was never worth it, and now it's enmeshed into the fabric of the intelligence community. This is just one more tiny encroachment, but I guess as long as they aren't coming for you or yours, there's nothing to see here? I mean, as long as we all have nothing to hide, why worry about the surveillance state at all.

Which is a subject for a different thread entirely. It's mere distraction from the truths in the IG report. Trump's conspiracy theories went down in flames.

 

[crashtech]

Which is a subject for a different thread entirely. It's mere distraction from the truths in the IG report. Trump's conspiracy theories went down in flames.

I intentionally avoid anything to do with Trump, and so can't speak to the scope of his "theories," but I would guess that this judge's order might provide a tiny bit of vindication in re Carter Page. Every tapestry of lies begins with a thread of truth. But my reason for posting this material has nothing in particular to do with Trump, and everything to do about being careful what you wish for (or what you're willing to accept). The means that are celebrated and defended today might become our end tomorrow.

 

[UNCjigga]

The excerpts I posted may have given the wrong impression. I don't think there's any evidence to support the "just one guy" assertion; a full reading of the judge's order refers to multiple instances of misconduct. Also she makes it clear that the Dec 5th order from the FISC will be publicly released sometime after Dec 20th.

I will concede that after all the facts are out, it seems like Carter Paige got a raw deal and shouldn’t have been under surveillance for so long. Not a big deal for the initial warrant, but the “exculpatory” info should’ve come up during reauthorization. It doesn’t seem like these four warrants yielded any actual intelligence on Page or the Trump campaign anyway. But I also agree with IG Horowitz that there was no “spying” on the Trump campaign.

 

[hal2kilo]

Meanwhile, real crime is continuing.

The Nunes crew is neck-deep in the Ukraine scandal

Several of the congressman's current and former staffers have surfaced in connection with the controversy.

www.motherjones.com

 

[crashtech]

Meanwhile, real crime is continuing.

The Nunes crew is neck-deep in the Ukraine scandal

Several of the congressman's current and former staffers have surfaced in connection with the controversy.

www.motherjones.com

The links in the story mostly point to their own site, which is frustrating, but one of the funniest parts is a link within its text to one of their own stories that contains this gem as its opening paragraph:

After days of much frothing, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) and his fellow Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee—with an assist from President Donald Trump—finally on Friday released the memo: a document cooked up by the panel’s Republican staff that claims the infamous Steele dossier was inappropriately used by the FBI and the Justice Department to obtain a super-secret FISA surveillance warrant on Carter Page, a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign.

Which, as we now know, was exactly what happened. It's hard to take sources seriously that don't even try to hide their bias, which in the case of MJ has always been extreme. Apparently Nunes and his pals were "frothing" while "cooking up" a truthful document, after all.

 

[compuwiz1]

I posted this link in another thread earlier.
Russia investigation questions remaining...

The whole Russia narrative is dead in my eyes.

 

[Jhhnn]

The links in the story mostly point to their own site, which is frustrating, but one of the funniest parts is a link within its text to one of their own stories that contains this gem as its opening paragraph:
Which, as we now know, was exactly what happened. It's hard to take sources seriously that don't even try to hide their bias, which in the case of MJ has always been extreme. Apparently Nunes and his pals were "frothing" while "cooking up" a truthful document, after all.

So what? The IG held that the FBI had sufficient reason to proceed as they did, even if they did so imperfectly wrt Carter Page. Go figure.

I'm calling bullshit on your claim that the article links mostly their own site. Numerous sources are linked. It's right there in plain text.

 

[ivwshane]

I posted this link in another thread earlier.
Russia investigation questions remaining...

The whole Russia narrative is dead in my eyes.

It was dead in your eyes before it was even investigated.

 

[Jhhnn]

It was dead in your eyes before it was even investigated.

[/QUOTE]

I figure he'd have a sex change operation if it meant he could have Trump's babies.

 

[crashtech]

So what? The IG held that the FBI had sufficient reason to proceed as they did, even if they did so imperfectly wrt Carter Page. Go figure.

I'm calling bullshit on your claim that the article links mostly their own site. Numerous sources are linked. It's right there in plain text.

Ah, hell, I thought I would at least get a little credit for actually reading the MJ article. How many of you would go read a Breitbart article? Anyway, I'm not going to go back and tally the link sources, so you win. I am so totally full of shit.