POLL: Will Communism ever work? Please let us hear your reasoning.

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
communism is a canard...it is a idealist system that cannot in actuality exist...
it promises a utopia where everyone is cared for, in theory.
the reality of communism is Castro, or Kim Il-Jong, or Stalin, or Enver Hoca
Russia has rejected communism, china is morphing into something other than communist.

if it was going to "work", i think it would have by now.

You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
communism is a canard...it is a idealist system that cannot in actuality exist...
it promises a utopia where everyone is cared for, in theory.
the reality of communism is Castro, or Kim Il-Jong, or Stalin, or Enver Hoca
Russia has rejected communism, china is morphing into something other than communist.

if it was going to "work", i think it would have by now.

You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

You are living in the most prosporous country to ever grace the face of the earth... AND IT IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
communism is a canard...it is a idealist system that cannot in actuality exist...
it promises a utopia where everyone is cared for, in theory.
the reality of communism is Castro, or Kim Il-Jong, or Stalin, or Enver Hoca
Russia has rejected communism, china is morphing into something other than communist.

if it was going to "work", i think it would have by now.

You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

You are living in the most prosporous country to ever grace the face of the earth... AND IT IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY.

He lives in Mexico Bubba!

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
communism is a canard...it is a idealist system that cannot in actuality exist...
it promises a utopia where everyone is cared for, in theory.
the reality of communism is Castro, or Kim Il-Jong, or Stalin, or Enver Hoca
Russia has rejected communism, china is morphing into something other than communist.

if it was going to "work", i think it would have by now.

You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

You are living in the most prosporous country to ever grace the face of the earth... AND IT IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY.

He lives in Mexico Bubba!

Thanks man.... my comment to him below

The post by this moron is proof that a lot of people are idiots who post whithout knowing enough about the subject But that is not strange on these boards.... Use your eyes and ears more and your mouth less....

Anyway, all along history there have been countries that are dominant in their time frame, but that doesn't mean their system is the best. Their dominance could be based on many things, from good organization to natural resources to science development all the way to cheating, stealing or invading.... So don't be silly, get the whole picture!

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
communism is a canard...it is a idealist system that cannot in actuality exist...
it promises a utopia where everyone is cared for, in theory.
the reality of communism is Castro, or Kim Il-Jong, or Stalin, or Enver Hoca
Russia has rejected communism, china is morphing into something other than communist.

if it was going to "work", i think it would have by now.

You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

You are living in the most prosporous country to ever grace the face of the earth... AND IT IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY.

well, its sorta a hybrid capitalist country. kinda like how we don't have a pure democracy.

 

[UCSDHappyAsian]

hehe.. maybe i did not state it clearly....
what i really mean is that the communism = failure
and i pointed out a counter-example which is china... but i just wanted to clearify that China does not enforce communism only..... government believe in capitalism... that means.... government allows individual's property and private companies...



about the ideal.... i do not intend to honor communism as IDEAL... NOT AT ALL!! of course not... my point was that "IF COMMUNISM WOULD WORK; it means everyone gets a job, a house, a food, some allowance, cars... etc.. " It "Appeared to be a great idea......., especially to those societies that suffer from poverty and corruption."
Sooner or Later, they will find out the bad side of communism...

My Chinese teacher in UCSD provided me this piece of info.

Not too many people know this historical event that happened in mainland China called " Three Years Natural Disaster." Tenth of millions of people died from poverty... the official blamed on the naturall disaster. the fact was simple, chairman Mao is a fool in the head. ask the farmers to do speare some times in farming and some times to do other stuff... for those farmers, they did not care about the harvest.. cause ragardly of its harvest,they still getting food... and gradually the harvest each year is decreasing and to a point that natire nation has nothing to eat...... tenths of millions died cause of the hunger...

i personally think communism would not work.. ..

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo well, its sorta a hybrid capitalist country. kinda like how we don't have a pure democracy.

I don't think people have read the last post on page 1..... capitalism doesn't equal democracy the same way that communism doesn't mean dictatorship

Comunism is more of an economical system rather than politic......

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: UCSDHappyAsian
hehe.. maybe i did not state it clearly....
what i really mean is that the communism = failure
and i pointed out a counter-example which is china... but i just wanted to clearify that China does not enforce communism only..... government believe in capitalism... that means.... government allows individual's property and private companies...



about the ideal.... i do not intend to honor communism as IDEAL... NOT AT ALL!! of course not... my point was that "IF COMMUNISM WOULD WORK; it means everyone gets a job, a house, a food, some allowance, cars... etc.. " It "Appeared to be a great idea......., especially to those societies that suffer from poverty and corruption."
Sooner or Later, they will find out the bad side of communism...

My Chinese teacher in UCSD provided me this piece of info

Not too many people know this historical event that happened in mainland China called " Three Years Natural Disaster." Tenth of millions of people died from poverty... the official blamed on the naturall disaster. the fact was simple, chairman Mao is a fool in the head. ask the farmers to do speare some times in farming and some times to do other stuff... for those farmers, they did not care about the harvest.. cause ragardly of its harvest,they still getting food... and gradually the harvest each year is decreasing and to a point that natire nation has nothing to eat...... tenths of millions died cause of the hunger...

i personally think communism would not work.. ..

That happened because of Mao's obsession to imitate the soviet model based on heavy industry ("great leap forward") After the failure, he realized that China was different. The perfect system doesn't exist and the best system for a country depends A LOT on the country's conditions and resources..... A socialist system WILL NOT work in a country where the BASIC satisfactors are already wide spread

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: alexruiz


You are totally a clown.....

Capitalism has existed for almost 4000 years, and look at the majority of countries on earth..... Most of them are poor with extreme differences between the rich and the poor.... so,. if capitalism was going to work, it should have by now....

actually it has existed in a recognizable form for about 200 to 250 years.

 

[heartsurgeon]

communism doesn't mean dictatorship

well, it has either been a dictatorship or a totalitarian state in every rendition in history.

 

[heartsurgeon]

communism doesn't mean dictatorship

well, it has either been a dictatorship or a totalitarian state in every rendition in history.

 

[PatboyX]

not on a grand scale.

 

[ReiAyanami]

communism will only work in the far future when everything has become automated and human labor is no longer necessary. where marginal cost to produce is so little that everything will be too cheaply and easily produced. (FAR future here, we're talking outer space and quantum energy reactors).

the miracle of technology is that it extends the malthus subsistence line by 300% faster than capital and technology is ever increasing.

however capitalism has turned out quite awful for a majority (over 50%) of countries (by both country count and population-wise). while communism so far has a worse record (100%?)...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
the miracle of technology is that it extends the malthus subsistence line by 300% faster than capital and technology is ever increasing.

do what?

 

[maluckey]

My take is much simpler.

Communism can work, but not with mankind the way it is. So long as man feels the need for power, it cannot exist. Few people would care for their neighbor to the same extent in which they care for themselves. Fewer people would let a lazy person receive equal compensation without disliking that person. Fewer still would be content to let a buffoon run things. That would set up the thirst for taking over, and spell the end of Communist thinking.

There have been exactly zero successful, true Communist soceities to date. They either degenerate rapidly to Dictatorships, or something that resembles Oligarchy (if you are lucky).

It would be great, but I'm never going to see it happen while I live, because I'm one of the ones who hate lazy people, and feel that any government needs a shakedown now and then to keep them on their toes.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

So, you haver never of the conditions they had under Fulgencio Batista? Sure, they were prospering under him if you consider "prospering" 12 year olds girls prostituting themselves for money to get food.... :rool;

hat goes on in many places, why? there is no perfect system ,and never will be.

Originally posted by: alexruiz
Also, why are so many stupid people that believe comunism/socialism is not compatible with democracy? You have never heard of the Chile of Salvador Allende or the Nicaragua of Daniel Ortega?

Democracy doesn't mean capitalism (just check Pakistan) the same way comunism doesn't mean dictatorship

because history has demonstrated in the majority of cases socialism/communism leads to dictatorships, this occurs after nationalization process...when the government achieves total power those in control of the government tend to keep it. the latest example being saddam who fits this pattern perfectly...just as hitler, stalin, mao..etc..etc.

Originally posted by: alexruiz
Comunism/socialism is more of an ECONOMICAL system rather that a politic system... but again, looking at the results fo the poll you can see the sheer amount of iditos who got brainwashed easily.... Let's make it clear for all the idiots like you who have no clue (too much TV):The ONLY thing that makes a country socialist/comunist is production means/wealth generators owned or controlled by the goverment. period

can you explain to me how the government owning/controlling major industry, banking and credit institutions is not "political?!?! are you also going to tell me the means and methods of the government attaining control are not "political" as well? can any government do ANYTHING that is not "political"?!?! ROFL!!

Originally posted by: alexruiz
The post by this moron is proof that a lot of people are idiots who post whithout knowing enough about the subject But that is not strange on these boards.... Use your eyes and ears more and your mouth less....

ever hear the phrase "hoisted on his own petard"? i thought you did...(you may have to spend time thinking of a reply that is not rife with the sophomoricism of your previous post) i must admit you provide a fine example!

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: maluckey
My take is much simpler.

Communism can work, but not with mankind the way it is. So long as man feels the need for power, it cannot exist. Few people would care for their neighbor to the same extent in which they care for themselves. Fewer people would let a lazy person receive equal compensation without disliking that person. Fewer still would be content to let a buffoon run things. That would set up the thirst for taking over, and spell the end of Communist thinking.

There have been exactly zero successful, true Communist soceities to date. They either degenerate rapidly to Dictatorships, or something that resembles Oligarchy (if you are lucky).

It would be great, but I'm never going to see it happen while I live, because I'm one of the ones who hate lazy people, and feel that any government needs a shakedown now and then to keep them on their toes.

i agree, but if man were capable of behaving in the way needed for communism/socialism to work, the political dogma itself would not be needed as the same result these political/economic theories aspire to would be met by an outworking of compassion and concern for the welfare of men for other men...not through legislation and/or coercion.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo well, its sorta a hybrid capitalist country. kinda like how we don't have a pure democracy.

I don't think people have read the last post on page 1..... capitalism doesn't equal democracy the same way that communism doesn't mean dictatorship

Comunism is more of an economical system rather than politic......

?? i only spoke of purity of systems.

 

[heartsurgeon]

i cannot think of a single "communist" state that has prospered (except for China, which I would argue is not actually communist anymore since they allow private and foreign ownership of capital/production).

i cannot think of a single communist state where people were eager to emigrate there.
i cannot think of a single communist state which has been or is more economically successful than the United States
i cannot think of a single communist state where the standard of living is better than the United States
communism has been rejected by the country of its origin, all of eastern europe, ALBANIA, an arguably even China.

it is a failed economic model
it is a failed political model

why do people still have this romantic, idealistic vision of communism? i really don't get it.

maybe i'm not smart enough to understand (as many of the posters have suggested)...here's your chance to teach me something..

 

[heartsurgeon]

i cannot think of a single "communist" state that has prospered (except for China, which I would argue is not actually communist anymore since they allow private and foreign ownership of capital/production).

i cannot think of a single communist state where people were eager to imigrate there.
i cannot think of a single communist state which has been or is more economically successful than the United States
i cannot think of a single communist state where the standard of living is better than the United States
communism has been rejected by the country of its origin, all of eastern europe, ALBANIA, an arguably even China.

it is a failed economic model
it is a failed political model

why do people still have this romantic, idealistic vision of communism? i really don't get it.

maybe i'm not smart enough to understand (as many of the posters have suggested)...here's your chance to teach me something..

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i cannot think of a single communist state where people were eager to emigrate there.

lots of people in communist countries are eager to emigrate.



btw, leninism is an integrated political-economic model.

 

[prometheusxls]

Communisim seems to work very well on small scales, in communities, extended family groups, and other localities where fewer numbers of people are concerned. Will it work well in a large country such a sthe united states? probabbly not.

 

[heartsurgeon]

communism and communal living are the same thing?

 

[prometheusxls]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Doboji
With enough police?.... sure it could work... but why on earth would you want it to?... I mean hell... feudalism works too. Communism requires that noone seek to truly better themselves past the scope of their fellow man. This is fundamentally against our human nature... we thrive on competition, a system that attempts to stifle our instincts will inevitably stifle our happiness and satisfaction as a society. Communism is great on paper... and downright evil in practice.

-Max

-People want to better themselves regardless of the amount of government money they receive. I make only a certain amount and I'm always trying to better my education and skills. These things are my passions in life, the things I'll have regardless of money.

- There was tons of competition in Communist Russia. Read a little bit about the aircraft designers in WW2... they were very competitive with each other. Probably more so than the airplane designers in the US.

Communism's intent is good, the same as democracy's intent is good. Ultimately it's the people that fail a system, no matter what system it is. Even Greece fell.

I have to agree. Most of the various governement forms are fairly good in theory. Its up the the people incontrol of the systems to manage things. Ultimatey it is the people who fail to support the system rather than the other way arround.

 

[LongCoolMother]

does democracy work better for LARGE populations? i mean, look at china, obviously its not doing as well as the USA. but it sure as hell is pulling its act together and booming VERY rapidly. then you look at india, which is also booming very quickly, but not even close to as much so as china.

i heard from some place democracy wouldnt work for large populations. is this true?