POLL: Will Communism ever work? Please let us hear your reasoning.

[Turkish]

Will it?

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Never, it has been proven. Capitalism gives you back what you put in ergo giving you the incentive to work to your maximum potential. In communism, from what I understand, what's the incentive? Whether you are a doctor or a taxi driver, what you get is all the same in the end, atleast in theory. No incentive = no productivity. That's where the government comes in with its iron fist control and policies. And that leads to my final point, communism and freedom are mutually exclusive. I might be militantly socially liberal but I am very fiscally conservative.

 

[Medicated858]

Overthrow the capitalist pigs! The rise of the proletariet is coming!

 

[daniel1113]

Communism will never work, especially in Democratic countries such as the U.S., for many reasons. First, it is nothing more than a theory since it has not been proven to work. Just look at China, U.S.S.R., etc. Every country that has attempted to form a Communist state has failed miserably. On the other hand, countries that have formed other forms of government have been unbelievably successful.

Secondly, Communism goes against modern human nature. People are more competitive than cooperative today, especially in the free world. Whether or not this is natural human nature, I do not know. However, the free world has been subjected to competition for far to long for it to be removed completely. Competition is ingrained in us from the beginning of life.

Also, as others have mentioned, without competition, there is simply no motivation to work, unless, of course, the government resorts to using military action to force its citizens to work. However, this completely goes against Communism, because someone must be above another person rather than everyone being equal.

Simply put, Communism looks good on paper as a theory since it represents a Utopian-type of existance in which there is no poverty, crime, etc. However, it relies too much on the good-will of every citizen for it to work. If everybody was naturally self-less and cooperative, Communism would work very well. However, the majority of people are not like this, and there is no way to force them into such an existance under the ideals of Communism.

 

[Lonyo]

Human nature will stop it from working. Humans just can't handle it (like they couldn't handle the perfect Matrix in the film), human nature just won't do it.

If you look at the Mormon societry, in a way that was quite successful, and they had a sharing system, although it was in a different time to the one that we live in today (I'm talking inception of Salt Lake City/Utah etc). Where they divided the land between everybody to rfarm.
While not communism, it does show that with the right mindset, it might be possibly for a system to work, but we don't have the right mindset as a population on the whole (of any country)

 

[dpm]

Nope. If people weren't selfish, then it might have a chance. Sadly, we are. Capitalism prospers (I'm not sure if I'd say it 'works' though, overall) because it relies on people's selfishness.

 

[sandorski]

Communism does work, at least it has worked in small populations who adhere to it out of religious belief(Mennonites and some other religious sects). This is a form of Communism and not Soviet style and it takes a lot of dedication from its' members in order for it to work. Could it work on a large scale though? That's another question entirely.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Communism does work, at least it has worked in small populations who adhere to it out of religious belief(Mennonites and some other religious sects). This is a form of Communism and not Soviet style and it takes a lot of dedication from its' members in order for it to work. Could it work on a large scale though? That's another question entirely.

Exactly. The reason it works with small groups is because everyone in the group chooses to make it work. However, when Communism is imposed on 250 million or more people, it is a much different situation.

 

[Doboji]

With enough police?.... sure it could work... but why on earth would you want it to?... I mean hell... feudalism works too. Communism requires that noone seek to truly better themselves past the scope of their fellow man. This is fundamentally against our human nature... we thrive on competition, a system that attempts to stifle our instincts will inevitably stifle our happiness and satisfaction as a society. Communism is great on paper... and downright evil in practice.

-Max

 

[smashp]

I think the problem with communism and in fact all types of government, is that power corupts humans.

Look at history.

If its Totalitarian, fascism, communism, socialism, Democracy, capitalism,Feudalism, Monarchism, or a Republic, Power corupts human beings.

That being said, the most succesful government will be the one that limits the power given to human beings.


Thats why its important that we realize we are a Democratic society with a capitalistic nature.

I feel we act like a capitalistic society with a Democratic nature. This is more coruptable becase more power is given to human being in the board room.

The more we let our society get taken over by corporate board rooms and greed, The less freedom and democracy we will have because power is then derived from corporations rather than the people.

I think even Marx determined this was also the fundamental flaw with Capitalism also.

Communism is great on paper, but its a theory that humans as a whole just cant embrace. Man has always strived to get power over his fellow man.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Doboji
With enough police?.... sure it could work... but why on earth would you want it to?... I mean hell... feudalism works too. Communism requires that noone seek to truly better themselves past the scope of their fellow man. This is fundamentally against our human nature... we thrive on competition, a system that attempts to stifle our instincts will inevitably stifle our happiness and satisfaction as a society. Communism is great on paper... and downright evil in practice.

-Max

Originally posted by: smashp
I think the problem with communism and in fact all types of government, is that power corupts humans.

Look at history.

If its Totalitarian, fascism, communism, socialism, Democracy, capitalism,Feudalism, Monarchism, or a Republic, Power corupts human beings.

That being said, the most succesful government will be the one that limits the power given to human beings.


Thats why its important that we realize we are a Democratic society with a capitalistic nature.

I feel we act like a capitalistic society with a Democratic nature. This is more coruptable becase more power is given to human being in the board room.

The more we let our society get taken over by corporate board rooms and greed, The less freedom and democracy we will have because power is then derived from corporations rather than the people.

I think even Marx determined this was also the fundamental flaw with Capitalism also.

Communism is great on paper, but its a theory that humans as a whole just cant embrace. Man has always strived to get power over his fellow man.

"Communism requires that noone seek to truly better themselves past the scope of their fellow man".
What is a system called that has Corporations dictating the scope of the people?

"The more we let our society get taken over by corporate board rooms and greed, The less freedom and democracy we will have because power is then derived from corporations rather than the people."

I'm glad to see more people saying and seeing what I've been seeing since 2000.
Just as a Dictator rises to power, Corporations have been able to rise to this level of power through the mania of mergers.
It's the ultimate battle of he with the most toys wins.

 

[Doboji]

SmashP

Our system of government has plenty of built in safeguards to prevent corporate control of our government.... The catch is, it's up to us the citzenry to enact those safeguards.... it's commonly known as VOTING. We have one of the worst voter turn outs of any democratic nations. Last year less than 45% of our population even voted!!.... That my friend is SICK. If people had gotten off their lazy asses, and voted, then those few hundred votes Bush won by in florida, wouldn't have mattered.

We have the safeguards to protect ourselves against corporate greed... it's our own damn fault for not enacting them.

-Max

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Doboji
SmashP

Our system of government has plenty of built in safeguards to prevent corporate control of our government.... The catch is, it's up to us the citzenry to enact those safeguards.... it's commonly known as VOTING. We have one of the worst voter turn outs of any democratic nations. Last year less than 45% of our population even voted!!.... That my friend is SICK. If people had gotten off their lazy asses, and voted, then those few hundred votes Bush won by in florida, wouldn't have mattered.

We have the safeguards to protect ourselves against corporate greed... it's our own damn fault for not enacting them.

-Max

But the Corporations in part fo their part by encouraging entropy among the public. The Assalt upon people by advertising, marketing, and the media pushes us to make the prime motice of our lives the accumulation of goods and wealth. Freedom is now defined in this country as HAVING the right to purchase an SUV.

We determine the condition of our Country using a measure of consumer Confidence.

I pledge alligence to the Flag of the United Corporations of America, and for the Products for which it markets, one nation, under Ceo's, consuming with Suv's and tv's for all

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Doboji
With enough police?.... sure it could work... but why on earth would you want it to?... I mean hell... feudalism works too. Communism requires that noone seek to truly better themselves past the scope of their fellow man. This is fundamentally against our human nature... we thrive on competition, a system that attempts to stifle our instincts will inevitably stifle our happiness and satisfaction as a society. Communism is great on paper... and downright evil in practice.

-Max

-People want to better themselves regardless of the amount of government money they receive. I make only a certain amount and I'm always trying to better my education and skills. These things are my passions in life, the things I'll have regardless of money.

- There was tons of competition in Communist Russia. Read a little bit about the aircraft designers in WW2... they were very competitive with each other. Probably more so than the airplane designers in the US.

Communism's intent is good, the same as democracy's intent is good. Ultimately it's the people that fail a system, no matter what system it is. Even Greece fell.

 

[Doboji]

But the Corporations in part fo their part by encouraging entropy among the public. The Assalt upon people by advertising, marketing, and the media pushes us to make the prime motice of our lives the accumulation of goods and wealth. Freedom is now defined in this country as HAVING the right to purchase an SUV.

We determine the condition of our Country using a measure of consumer Confidence.

I pledge alligence to the Flag of the United Corporations of America, and for the Products for which it markets, one nation, under Ceo's, consuming with Suv's and tv's for all

Mind control?!?! C'mmon man... I don't buy that for even a split second.... The corporations are controlling our minds by selling us their products?... Thats their job, they're supposed to excite you about their products... Thats no excuse for the political apathy in this country.

Freedom is the right to purchase anything you damn well please... and to speak your mind, and to cast your vote. All of which are strong intitutions in this country.

I don't even see the logical sequence in your argument... Corporations sell us all kinds of cool stuff, so we don't vote?... huh... I don't see it. Are you saying we're too busy watching car commercials to vote?...

If people in this country don't vote, and they weren't physically restrained from voting, then they have noone to blame but themselves.

Period. Enough making excuses for people.... how about some personal responsibility for a change.

-Max

 

[smashp]

There was tons of competition in Communist Russia. Read a little bit about the aircraft designers in WW2... they were very competitive with each other. Probably more so than the airplane designers in the US.

The totalitarian Government forced the Entire russian Aircraft industry to focus on Coping the b-29 bomber right after WW2. They made a reverse engineered an entire American technological Wonder in 2 years.

something many experts said would have been impossible under any other government structure.

Granted, Failure most likely ment imprisonment or possible death if Stalin didnt get his way.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Doboji

But the Corporations in part fo their part by encouraging entropy among the public. The Assalt upon people by advertising, marketing, and the media pushes us to make the prime motice of our lives the accumulation of goods and wealth. Freedom is now defined in this country as HAVING the right to purchase an SUV.

We determine the condition of our Country using a measure of consumer Confidence.

I pledge alligence to the Flag of the United Corporations of America, and for the Products for which it markets, one nation, under Ceo's, consuming with Suv's and tv's for all

Mind control?!?! C'mmon man... I don't buy that for even a split second.... The corporations are controlling our minds by selling us their products?... Thats their job, they're supposed to excite you about their products... Thats no excuse for the political apathy in this country.

Freedom is the right to purchase anything you damn well please... and to speak your mind, and to cast your vote. All of which are strong intitutions in this country.

I don't even see the logical sequence in your argument... Corporations sell us all kinds of cool stuff, so we don't vote?... huh... I don't see it. Are you saying we're too busy watching car commercials to vote?...

If people in this country don't vote, and they weren't physically restrained from voting, then they have noone to blame but themselves.

Period. Enough making excuses for people.... how about some personal responsibility for a change.

-Max

Consumerism and Television (Which are linked remeber the sole purpose of Tv is marketing and advertising, Because without these two Items their is no money to broadcast.) Leads to apathy and intellectual laziness.

Intellectual laziness leads to a 45% voter turnout.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: smashp

There was tons of competition in Communist Russia. Read a little bit about the aircraft designers in WW2... they were very competitive with each other. Probably more so than the airplane designers in the US.

The totalitarian Government forced the Entire russian Aircraft industry to focus on Coping the b-29 bomber right after WW2. They made a reverse engineered an entire American technological Wonder in 2 years.

something many experts said would have been impossible under any other government structure.

Granted, Failure most likely ment imprisonment or possible death if Stalin didnt get his way.

Very true but this was because Russia never had a heavy bomber... or needed one for that matter. The American threat was what created the need, not the Eastern Front conflict. That was a tactical mistake on there part and had nothing to do with there engineers.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: Doboji
SmashP

Our system of government has plenty of built in safeguards to prevent corporate control of our government.... The catch is, it's up to us the citzenry to enact those safeguards.... it's commonly known as VOTING. We have one of the worst voter turn outs of any democratic nations. Last year less than 45% of our population even voted!!.... That my friend is SICK. If people had gotten off their lazy asses, and voted, then those few hundred votes Bush won by in florida, wouldn't have mattered.

We have the safeguards to protect ourselves against corporate greed... it's our own damn fault for not enacting them.

-Max

But the Corporations in part fo their part by encouraging entropy among the public. The Assalt upon people by advertising, marketing, and the media pushes us to make the prime motice of our lives the accumulation of goods and wealth. Freedom is now defined in this country as HAVING the right to purchase an SUV.

We determine the condition of our Country using a measure of consumer Confidence.

I pledge alligence to the Flag of the United Corporations of America, and for the Products for which it markets, one nation, under Ceo's, consuming with Suv's and tv's for all

"I pledge alligence to the Flag of the United Corporations of America, and for the Products for which it markets, one nation, under Ceo's, consuming with Suv's and tv's for all".

Excellent post smash.

Dobo, on paper and theory you are correct that our democracy should've had safegaurds to stop what has happened but the problem is that Corporations have outflanked the Democracy itself by purchasing both parties. They in fact OWN the Government.

That's why smashes new pledge is dead on accurate.

So is the new name of the system in America called Consumerism? Not sure if that works because the Consumer doesn't have the power.
Any other ideas? This is what will be put down in History books folks. This shift I'm afraid is permanent now.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: smashp

There was tons of competition in Communist Russia. Read a little bit about the aircraft designers in WW2... they were very competitive with each other. Probably more so than the airplane designers in the US.

The totalitarian Government forced the Entire russian Aircraft industry to focus on Coping the b-29 bomber right after WW2. They made a reverse engineered an entire American technological Wonder in 2 years.

something many experts said would have been impossible under any other government structure.

Granted, Failure most likely ment imprisonment or possible death if Stalin didnt get his way.

Very true but this was because Russia never had a heavy bomber... or needed one for that matter. The American threat was what created the need, not the Eastern Front conflict. That was a tactical mistake on there part and had nothing to do with there engineers.

I think this little incident Showed the Technological superiority of both countries. It was no easy job to design the superfortress, yet it was as large of a marvel to copy it piece for piece.

 

[daniel1113]

It's always those evil corporations...

Might I remind you that corporations make up a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the economy and provide millions of jobs. Perhaps we should get rid of them

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's always those evil corporations...

Might I remind you that corporations make up a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the economy and provide millions of jobs. Perhaps we should get rid of them

No, just limit their power.

Take away their rights. As I recall the constitution granted rights to the citizens.

but the judiciary has granted those same rights to Corporations.

Its For the People, by the people......Remember.

corporations are Totalitarian in nature, you do as your boss tells you. There is no "Democratic" structure within. There are checks and balances, but when Ceo's put their buddies on boards, it defeats the purpose.

when we let entities that have their power derived from the top take over our government which is based on power dervived from the bottom. guess who will lose.

 

[Doboji]

People want to better themselves regardless of the amount of government money they receive. I make only a certain amount and I'm always trying to better my education and skills. These things are my passions in life, the things I'll have regardless of money.

You may consider bettering yourself in terms of intellectual and athletic achievments... but other people consider it leather sofa's and big screen TVs.... sometime I just want to own the fastest car in the neighborhood.... or something that may appeal to everyone here.... I want the fastest badest PC in the neighborhood...

This is human nature... a nature that Communism stifles, and thereby fails.

-Max

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's always those evil corporations...

Might I remind you that corporations make up a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the economy and provide millions of jobs. Perhaps we should get rid of them

A Corporation on paper in the U.S. , the millions of jobs reside overseas in India and everwhere else.

At this rate the U.S. will be one Giant Island of a small top of the space needle group of super wealthy fat CEO's and Politicians with a huge poor Society of peasants that will serve them.

I don't think it will get that far because there will be a REVOLUTION before it gets that bad.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's always those evil corporations...

Might I remind you that corporations make up a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the economy and provide millions of jobs. Perhaps we should get rid of them

A Corporation on paper in the U.S. , the millions of jobs reside overseas in India and everwhere else.

At this rate the U.S. will be one Giant Island of a small top of the space needle group of super wealthy fat CEO's and Politicians with a huge poor Society of peasants that will serve them.

I don't think it will get that far because there will be a REVOLUTION before it gets that bad.

Power to the PEOPLE !!!!
<-----raises fist