Polygamy poll.

[totalcommand]

I'm for gay marriage, but not polygamy. But hey - does this position make any sense?

The reason I'm against polygamy is partly because it is not an accepted norm and I believe it degrades women - I think it is a dangerous social behavior.

But isn't this the same reasoning that gayhaters use in their opposition to gay marriage? They believe that homosexuality is deviant behavior, much like polygamy is. Why does the reasoning work for polygamy, but not for gay marriage?

So...I'm wondering how many of the people who support gay marriage out there also support polygamy and their reasoning behind their opinions.


Maybe the conservative slippery slope argument is right?

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
I'm for gay marriage, but not polygamy. But hey - does this position make any sense?

The reason I'm against polygamy is partly because it is not an accepted norm and I believe it degrades women - I think it is a dangerous social behavior.

But isn't this the same reasoning that gayhaters use in their opposition to gay marriage? They believe that homosexuality is deviant behavior, much like polygamy is. Why does the reasoning work for polygamy, but not for gay marriage?

So...I'm wondering how many of the people who support gay marriage out there also support polygamy and their reasoning behind their opinions.


Maybe the conservative slippery slope argument is right?

I've never heard of a polygamous relationship where one of the women wasn't 15. So, allthough I'm not against polygamy from a moral standpoint, I've never seen an example of it in our society where the women weren't being controlled. But, I'll keep an open mind.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

I have never thought about it.
How is it deviant behavior? How would a polygamic marriage degrade adult men and women?

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick
I have never thought about it.
How is it deviant behavior? How would a polygamic marriage degrade adult men and women?

I don't think it does inherintyl, but like I said the only examples I've hard of where ones where one of the women was 15. Not too keen on children getting married.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The reason I'm against polygamy is partly because it is not an accepted norm and I believe it degrades women - I think it is a dangerous social behavior.

What about polyandry where one woman has multiple husbands? would that not be degrading towards men? personally if they are going to recognise homosexual marriage then I see no reason why consenting adults should not be allowed to marry into multi partner relationships.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: totalcommand
The reason I'm against polygamy is partly because it is not an accepted norm and I believe it degrades women - I think it is a dangerous social behavior.

What about polyandry where one woman has multiple husbands? would that not be degrading towards men? personally if they are going to recognise homosexual marriage then I see no reason why consenting adults should not be allowed to marry into multi partner relationships.

I don't think I've heard of a case where multiple men wanted to marry one woman. You hear about the opposite but not multiple men and one woman.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: tss4

I don't think I've heard of a case where multiple men wanted to marry one woman. You hear about the opposite but not multiple men and one woman.

Not in this culture but in areas like Tibet and such it was commonplace and I know in 94 was making a bit of a comeback....who is to say it wouldn't be popular here and who are we to not allow consenting adults into such relationships?

 

[totalcommand]

EHhh, my question had more to do with homosexuality than just polygamy. The only publicized polygamy we see are those with 15 year olds involved. But I'm pretty sure there's some with older women.

I just can't see how I can justify supporting homosexual marriage but not polygamy. Why should homosexual marriage be acceptable and not polygamy - there's statistics showing that STDs are higher among the homosexual population just like there are statistics showing that more women are abused in polygamous relationships. Is there that much of a difference between allowing gay marriage and polygamy?

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
EHhh, my question had more to do with homosexuality than just polygamy. The only publicized polygamy we see are those with 15 year olds involved. But I'm pretty sure there's some with older women.

I just can't see how I can justify supporting homosexual marriage but not polygamy. Why should homosexual marriage be acceptable and not polygamy - there's statistics showing that STDs are higher among the homosexual population just like there are statistics showing that more women are abused in polygamous relationships. Is there that much of a difference between allowing gay marriage and polygamy?

Point Taken. I can't think of a real difference right now.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: tss4

I don't think I've heard of a case where multiple men wanted to marry one woman. You hear about the opposite but not multiple men and one woman.

Not in this culture but in areas like Tibet and such it was commonplace and I know in 94 was making a bit of a comeback....who is to say it wouldn't be popular here and who are we to not allow consenting adults into such relationships?

This is also talked about in Alaska or used to be when the ratio was something like 1 woman to every 280 men at one point during the Oil pipeline building.

Marriage should just be done away with completely. End of problem.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Gay marriage is not exactly an accepted norm either.

 

[daveshel]

Did I miss something? Like some proposal to legitimize polygamy? This comparison has no basis in reality. It's like comparing Atkins to cannibalism.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Gay marriage is not exactly an accepted norm either.

There is a significant minority that does support it. And its becoming more accepted.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Gay marriage is not exactly an accepted norm either.

There is a significant minority that does support it. And its becoming more accepted.

I'm not sure that the numbers rise to the level of 'significant' and I'm even less sure that the acceptance of gay marriage is on the rise. Can you substantiate these claims?

 

[jackschmittusa]

I have no moral problem with either. The only legitament interest the government might have in polygamy is the financial burden through Social Security or welfare if the man leaves or dies. Maybe a separate permit should be required after proving adequate financial recourses to sustain such a family.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I have enough trouble with one wife . . . why would anyone in their right mind want more?

Anyway . . . just like gay marriage . . . neither polygamy nor polyandry has a negative effect on my family. As long as it's a consentual relationship . . . why does it matter?

(For the record . . . by definition a minor cannot give consent)

 

[JHutch]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Marriage should just be done away with completely. End of problem.

Spoken like man going through a divorce!

Seriously, marriage has its advantages, both from a legal point view (common property rights, etc) and social view (public (?illusionary?) commitment, a well understood relationship to outsiders to the couple, etc.).

Personally, I'm against polygamy because I've never seen a good, healthy (imo) example of it. But I'm not against it to the point where I'm willing to say no one can do, ever, period.

JHutch

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Gay marriage is not exactly an accepted norm either.

There is a significant minority that does support it. And its becoming more accepted.

I'm not sure that the numbers rise to the level of 'significant' and I'm even less sure that the acceptance of gay marriage is on the rise. Can you substantiate these claims?

You honestly don't think there are more people today that are in support of gay marriage that in 1950? And yes they are significant, I didn't say majority just that they were significant.

http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1567690.html
"The study, conducted by Republican pollster Bill McInturff and Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg, found that 56 percent of respondents are opposed to gay marriage, while 30 percent support it."

But I know you guys hate NPR so here's a different source.
http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

Allthough, that one is a poll over time its not enough to show a trend (only 8 years). Allthough it does suggest that support is going up over the long term. In the short term (2 years) it may have gone down as a result of backlash or because civil unions has been introduced as an alternative.

I didn't have time to find a long term poll but I did find this data that breaks it down by age.
http://people-press.org/reports/images/197-14.gif

 

[Rainsford]

Here's my feeling on the issue. I'm not too keen on being in a gay marriage (since I'm not gay and all that), and personally I don't like polygamy. I plan on having a more "traditional" kind of marriage.

That being said, I see nothing that gives me a right to tell OTHER people how to run their personal lives. As long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I don't think it's my place, or anyone else's place, to tell them what they can and can't do.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Gay marriage is not exactly an accepted norm either.

There is a significant minority that does support it. And its becoming more accepted.

I'm not sure that the numbers rise to the level of 'significant' and I'm even less sure that the acceptance of gay marriage is on the rise. Can you substantiate these claims?

You honestly don't think there are more people today that are in support of gay marriage that in 1950? And yes they are significant, I didn't say majority just that they were significant.

http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1567690.html
"The study, conducted by Republican pollster Bill McInturff and Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg, found that 56 percent of respondents are opposed to gay marriage, while 30 percent support it."

But I know you guys hate NPR so here's a different source.
http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

Allthough, that one is a poll over time its not enough to show a trend (only 8 years). Allthough it does suggest that support is going up over the long term. In the short term (2 years) it may have gone down as a result of backlash or because civil unions has been introduced as an alternative.

I didn't have time to find a long term poll but I did find this data that breaks it down by age.
http://people-press.org/reports/images/197-14.gif

OK, I took you to mean that the numbers have risen since it became a reality, and, as shown in your second link, the opposite is true.

I am quite surprised to see that as many as 30% support gay marriage. But you are right, that is significant.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Here's my feeling on the issue. I'm not too keen on being in a gay marriage (since I'm not gay and all that), and personally I don't like polygamy. I plan on having a more "traditional" kind of marriage.

That being said, I see nothing that gives me a right to tell OTHER people how to run their personal lives. As long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I don't think it's my place, or anyone else's place, to tell them what they can and can't do.

i pretty much agree.
i think that the polygamy thing is one of the weakest points to make.
mostly becuase its a different issue. "slippery slope" doesnt really have anything to do with the current arguement, it just brings up a new one. so...lets cross that bridge when we come to it.
i know oreilly loves to bring up how ill try and marry my cat once gay marriage is legalized but...come on, lets take this one step at a time.
if the traditional definition of marriage is between man and woman and simply making it between man and man or woman and woman or (easier) adult and adult...well, thats easy.
but then to assume, well, we let two people of the same gender get married so now that means we have to let 5 people or mixed genders all get married to one another...i dont really see the connection.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Here's my feeling on the issue. I'm not too keen on being in a gay marriage (since I'm not gay and all that), and personally I don't like polygamy. I plan on having a more "traditional" kind of marriage.

That being said, I see nothing that gives me a right to tell OTHER people how to run their personal lives. As long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I don't think it's my place, or anyone else's place, to tell them what they can and can't do.

i pretty much agree.
i think that the polygamy thing is one of the weakest points to make.
mostly becuase its a different issue. "slippery slope" doesnt really have anything to do with the current arguement, it just brings up a new one. so...lets cross that bridge when we come to it.
i know oreilly loves to bring up how ill try and marry my cat once gay marriage is legalized but...come on, lets take this one step at a time.
if the traditional definition of marriage is between man and woman and simply making it between man and man or woman and woman or (easier) adult and adult...well, thats easy.
but then to assume, well, we let two people of the same gender get married so now that means we have to let 5 people or mixed genders all get married to one another...i dont really see the connection.

See, I don't see how you can't see the similarities. Those that support gay marriage argue that marriage is arbitrarily defined as "one man, one woman" and say that's not fair to them. They say there is no reason why it should not just be "one adult, one adult," as this would be more equal. But if so, why don't they recognize the arbitrary use of "one" and the discrimination against those who are attracted to more than one person (no matter the sex)? It's the same thing to me. If we are going to change the rules to allow people to marry based on their "lifestyles," why not go ahead and change it 100%? Why should homosexuality be accepted as "normal, not deviant" behavior, but not polygamy? Or incest?

I think it's a perfectly valid argument. And the fact that I have never seen a rational explanation from a gay marriage advocate just bolsters by belief. The only thing I ever see is eye-rolling about how "that's a stupid argument" or "there the conservatives go talking about marrying their pets again." Where is the rational, logical justification for supporting gay marriange, but being opposed to other definitions of marriage?

 

[imported_Papi]

a different peice of ass for each day of the week.

hmm......

 

[oreagan]

As long as everyone involved is a fully consenting adult, I don't have a problem with gay marriage, polygamy, or gay polygamous marriages. "Fully consenting adult" is an important distinction though - it's why it's still completely wrong to allow pedophilia, bestiality or the other things conservatives often try to link with gay marriage. A child and an animal cannot truly consent.

 

[totalcommand]

Did I miss something? Like some proposal to legitimize polygamy? This comparison has no basis in reality. It's like comparing Atkins to cannibalism.

What you missed is that many conservatives believe that gay marriage should not be legalized because it would be approving of it by doing so. They believe that if you legalize gay marriage, the next thing would be polygamy, and other "deviant" lifestyles. i.e. the slippery slope argument, which is logically invalid. I'm just saying that there is some truth in that argument - the same reasoning that is used to justify legalizing gay marriage can be used to justify legalizing polygamy. So how can it be possible to be for gay marrige and against polygamy.

My only answer is to say that polygamy is harmful to society as a whole (not just to the individual), while gay marriage isn't harmful to society as a whole. But, then it is very understandable that someone could see gay marriage as harmful to society. So I think what it comes down to is what each person's idea of the norm for society is.

For some people, this norm is determined by religion; for others this norm is determined by personal experience, so it's hard to argue one way or other. I think what the debate over norms comes down to is whether one single religion is able/should be able to determine society's norms. For me, the answer is no, and gay marriage should be legalized, while polygamy should not be.