Porsche Boxster

[bozack]

Originally posted by: mtbiac
heh, i dunnoa about that. them ladies like FAST cars

Only if you are talking about draq queens or you are talking about another type of "girlfriend"...women like smooth cars, not plastic rice rockets with big wings and raspy exhaust notes...unless you are hanging with the women from the fast and the furious.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Ownage brought down from a true Porsche owner!!!!

Correction: Attempted ownage by a Porsche zealot. If he met a Z06 on a roadcourse his vocal enthusiasm about the Boxster would be quite humbled.

Do some research and tell me that a Boxster can hang with a Z06. Isn't going to happen. With a skilled driver than can push both vehicles to their limits, he'd get better times in the Z06.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: MarshalljIt sounds like YOU are the one who is speaking without much knowledge about the cars you're trying to compare.

Just because the Z06 can accelerate well does not make it a "drag car". Its independant suspension doesn't lend itself to being optimised for drag racing. The Z06 will outperform a Boxster in the turns as well as in acceleration and braking.

I've done plenty of research comparing the performance of both cars, and I'd suggest that you do the same. It's evident that the Z06 is the better performing vehicle. It becomes apparent that the most vocal Boxster supporters are those who simply like the Porsche brand name, and would support anything that carried the Porsche emblem.

Honestly this is crappola, I won't lie I like Porsche but I am a huge domestic fan and would take anything american over anything foreign anyday of the week..however I wouldn't kid myself by trying to comapre a vette to a porsche...and while I have not checked the specs I find it very hard to believe that a front engine mounted muscle car can compare with a mid engine sports car in the curves, sure the Corvette IRS is supposed to be nice, but I would really have to see some convincing stats to believe that one...maybe a link??

plus there is no denying that Chevy service (and most american brands) blows goat a$$...at least with the Porsche they will treat you nice, heck there is alot more to owning a car than how fast it goes.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: bozack
Honestly this is crappola, I won't lie I like Porsche but I am a huge domestic fan and would take anything american over anything foreign anyday of the week..however I wouldn't kid myself by trying to comapre a vette to a porsche...and while I have not checked the specs I find it very hard to believe that a front engine mounted muscle car can compare with a mid engine sports car in the curves, sure the Corvette IRS is supposed to be nice, but I would really have to see some convincing stats to believe that one...maybe a link??

plus there is no denying that Chevy service (and most american brands) blows goat a$$...at least with the Porsche they will treat you nice, heck there is alot more to owning a car than how fast it goes.

I find your reply amuzing.

First you state that my reply (backed by research) is "crappola", and then you admit that you did NOT check the specs. If you did not check the specs, then how would you know?

I suggest that you DO check the facts before opening your mouth and looking foolish. You'd be enlightened.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Spoken by someone who has obviously never driven a car that handles like a slot car. The main thrust of the Boxster's design is canyon-carving handling. It is MUCH easier to get into a Boxster and drive fast than it is to get into a 911 and drive fast. The 911 is a wonderful machine, but it can't match the poise and balance of the Boxster. Heck, even a 944 Turbo can outrun a 911 through the twisties.

I don't have anything against a good drag car (I'd give just about anything for a nice, clean 1968 L-88 Corvette coupe), but it would be very nice if more of you 1/4 mile types weren't so bloody ignorant about anything that won't light up the drag strip.

ZV

It sounds like YOU are the one who is speaking without much knowledge about the cars you're trying to compare.

Just because the Z06 can accelerate well does not make it a "drag car". Its independant suspension doesn't lend itself to being optimised for drag racing. The Z06 will outperform a Boxster in the turns as well as in acceleration and braking.

I've done plenty of research comparing the performance of both cars, and I'd suggest that you do the same. It's evident that the Z06 is the better performing vehicle. It becomes apparent that the most vocal Boxster supporters are those who simply like the Porsche brand name, and would support anything that carried the Porsche emblem.

Yes, in raw numbers (skidpad, slalom speed) the Z06 will top the Boxster. Raw numbers != Real world track performance. While the 'Vette does have very high handling limits, it takes much more effort to approach those limits than it does to approach the Boxster's limits.

In pure test-track data, my 914 is humbled by most current FWD econoboxes. Strange thing is though, that I can run away from just about anything on a curvey road.

Reasearch and test-track numbers are all well and good, but they are not the be-all and end-all. There is a lot to be said for a car's behaviour. I would suggest that you do less research and more driving.

ZV

 

[Marshallj]

The specs:

Corvette Z06

0-60 mph: 4.5 sec
0-100 mph: 10.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Skidpad: .98g
Top Speed: 171 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 123 ft
Slalom Speed: 68.5 mph

Porsche Boxster S

0- 60 Acceleration (sec): 5.8
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.3 @ 99.9
60 - 0 Braking (ft): 122
200 ft. Skidpad (g's): 0.97
600 ft. Slalom (mph): 64.6

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Marshallj
The specs:

Corvette Z06

0-60 mph: 4.5 sec
0-100 mph: 10.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Skidpad: .98g
Top Speed: 171 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 123 ft
Slalom Speed: 68.5 mph

Porsche Boxster S

0- 60 Acceleration (sec): 5.8
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.3 @ 99.9
60 - 0 Braking (ft): 122
200 ft. Skidpad (g's): 0.97
600 ft. Slalom (mph): 64.6

Well, this would prove that you didn't even read my last post.

ZV

EDIT: Find me some lap times and we'll talk.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Spoken by someone who has obviously never driven a car that handles like a slot car. The main thrust of the Boxster's design is canyon-carving handling. It is MUCH easier to get into a Boxster and drive fast than it is to get into a 911 and drive fast. The 911 is a wonderful machine, but it can't match the poise and balance of the Boxster. Heck, even a 944 Turbo can outrun a 911 through the twisties.

I don't have anything against a good drag car (I'd give just about anything for a nice, clean 1968 L-88 Corvette coupe), but it would be very nice if more of you 1/4 mile types weren't so bloody ignorant about anything that won't light up the drag strip.

ZV

It sounds like YOU are the one who is speaking without much knowledge about the cars you're trying to compare.

Just because the Z06 can accelerate well does not make it a "drag car". Its independant suspension doesn't lend itself to being optimised for drag racing. The Z06 will outperform a Boxster in the turns as well as in acceleration and braking.

I've done plenty of research comparing the performance of both cars, and I'd suggest that you do the same. It's evident that the Z06 is the better performing vehicle. It becomes apparent that the most vocal Boxster supporters are those who simply like the Porsche brand name, and would support anything that carried the Porsche emblem.

Yes, in raw numbers (skidpad, slalom speed) the Z06 will top the Boxster. Raw numbers != Real world track performance. While the 'Vette does have very high handling limits, it takes much more effort to approach those limits than it does to approach the Boxster's limits.

In pure test-track data, my 914 is humbled by most current FWD econoboxes. Strange thing is though, that I can run away from just about anything on a curvey road.

Reasearch and test-track numbers are all well and good, but they are not the be-all and end-all. There is a lot to be said for a car's behaviour. I would suggest that you do less research and more driving.

ZV

I'm with ZV on this one. A well-balanced mid-engined car will dance a jig on the grave of front-engined or rear-engined sports cars. The Boxster, NSX, and 360 Modena may not be the fastest cars in their respective fields, but they will turn on a dime and provide livlier handling than anything else out there.

Also in agreeance with ZV, while the 914 is an ugly slow beast P), it can rip many cars a new one when it comes to the twisties. I was taken on a romp through some twisties in a 360 Modena a few months back. That car was SO planted. It seems as though there was almost no weight transfer and the car just STUCK!!! Can't say the same for the 996 911 Carrera or 996 911 Cabriolet that I got a chance to ride in. You could definitely feel it's handling limits building up. With the Modena, it was just :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


Yes, in raw numbers (skidpad, slalom speed) the Z06 will top the Boxster. Raw numbers != Real world track performance. While the 'Vette does have very high handling limits, it takes much more effort to approach those limits than it does to approach the Boxster's limits.

Now you are taking the loser's way out. When it's apparent that you've lost the debate on terms that are directly comparable, you try to shift the focus onto that which is more abstract and less capable to be directly compared.

When doing road tests, if a good driver is able to deliver better numbers in the Z06 than the Boxster S, then what are you complaining about? This is a real person driving real cars, not an engineering datasheet of theoretical (but realistically unobtainable) numbers. The Z06 wins hands down. Not by a little, but by a fairly large margin.

In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Marshallj
In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

Then why does the 'Vette get its ass handed to it on the Nurburgring by the Boxster? Same track and the same driver.

Official Lap times:
Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster '03. 228 PS. 1370kg
2003-02-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 143.721 km/h 8:36:000

Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster S. 252 PS. 1386 kg
1999-12-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 144.844 km/h 8 32 000

Horst von Saurma (D) Chevrolet Corvette. 344 PS. 1505 kg
1997-07-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 142.615 km/h 8:40:000

ZV

EDIT: Clarity, multiple spaces don't show up in the post.

 

[GroundZero]

well my '87 hyundai excell will smoke all of them!
so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: NFS4


I'm with ZV on this one. A well-balanced mid-engined car will dance a jig on the grave of front-engined or rear-engined sports cars. The Boxster, NSX, and 360 Modena may not be the fastest cars in their respective fields, but they will turn on a dime and provide livlier handling than anything else out there.

Also in agreeance with ZV, while the 914 is an ugly slow beast P), it can rip many cars a new one when it comes to the twisties. I was taken on a romp through some twisties in a 360 Modena a few months back. That car was SO planted. It seems as though there was almost no weight transfer and the car just STUCK!!! Can't say the same for the 996 911 Carrera or 996 911 Cabriolet that I got a chance to ride in. You could definitely feel it's handling limits building up. With the Modena, it was just :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to say that you're talking out of your ass here. ZV is wrong. You seem to follow the "riceboy" mentality when it comes to comparing cars. You don't want to follow any type of logical guidlines when doing your comparison. This is not the thought process to have when you're trying to perform an objective benchmark.

You seem to be following the belief that cars have some "abstract, unmeasurable" quality. This is simply not true. Accurate comparisons can be and are conducted. You make it sound like a car can outhandle another car, yet somehow its performance cannot be measured. This is false.

If a car IS able able to "rip a new one" in the twisties, that cornering ability can be measured and compared to the cornering ability of other cars. There is nothing abstract here, it's just cold, hard numbers. Handling and tuning is not an art form, it is a science. This is why race teams invest so much money into Research and Development. If these attributes could not be measured, compared, studied, and manipulated, they would not bother with R&D.

The reason that people don't want to believe the numbers is because they cannot let logic override their bias or seat of the pants feeling. But the numbers are correct, seat of the pants feelings are misleading. (That's why when you learn how to fly a plane, they say "always trust the gauges")

You sound young. How old are you and what kind of performance car do you drive?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: NFS4
I'm with ZV on this one. A well-balanced mid-engined car will dance a jig on the grave of front-engined or rear-engined sports cars. The Boxster, NSX, and 360 Modena may not be the fastest cars in their respective fields, but they will turn on a dime and provide livlier handling than anything else out there.

Also in agreeance with ZV, while the 914 is an ugly slow beast P), it can rip many cars a new one when it comes to the twisties. I was taken on a romp through some twisties in a 360 Modena a few months back. That car was SO planted. It seems as though there was almost no weight transfer and the car just STUCK!!! Can't say the same for the 996 911 Carrera or 996 911 Cabriolet that I got a chance to ride in. You could definitely feel it's handling limits building up. With the Modena, it was just :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to say that you're talking out of your ass here. ZV is wrong. You seem to follow the "riceboy" mentality when it comes to comparing cars. You don't want to follow any type of logical guidlines when doing your comparison. This is not the thought process to have when you're trying to perform an objective benchmark.

You seem to be following the belief that cars have some "abstract, unmeasurable" quality. This is simply not true. Accurate comparisons can be and are conducted. You make it sound like a car can outhandle another car, yet somehow its performance cannot be measured. This is false.

If a car IS able able to "rip a new one" in the twisties, that cornering ability can be measured and compared to the cornering ability of other cars. There is nothing abstract here, it's just cold, hard numbers. Handling and tuning is not an art form, it is a science. This is why race teams invest so much money into Research and Development. If these attributes could not be measured, compared, studied, and manipulated, they would not bother with R&D.

The reason that people don't want to believe the numbers is because they cannot let logic override their bias or seat of the pants feeling. But the numbers are correct, seat of the pants feelings are misleading. (That's why when you learn how to fly a plane, they say "always trust the gauges")

You sound young. How old are you and what kind of performance car do you drive?

You'll notice that he conveniently ignored the Nurburgring lap times.

ZV

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marshallj
In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

Then why does the 'Vette get its ass handed to it on the Nurburgring by the Boxster? Same track and the same driver.

Official Lap times:
Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster '03. 228 PS. 1370kg
2003-02-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 143.721 km/h 8:36:000

Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster S. 252 PS. 1386 kg
1999-12-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 144.844 km/h 8 32 000

Horst von Saurma (D) Chevrolet Corvette. 344 PS. 1505 kg
1997-07-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 142.615 km/h 8:40:000

ZV

EDIT: Clarity, multiple spaces don't show up in the post.

To be fair, he specifically mentions the Z06, which is certainly faster than the base 'Vette from 6 years ago.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Marshallj
You sound young. How old are you and what kind of performance car do you drive?

and you have an ignore list in your signature...
Pot? Kettle?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: bigsmooth

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marshallj
In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

Then why does the 'Vette get its ass handed to it on the Nurburgring by the Boxster? Same track and the same driver.

Official Lap times:
Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster '03. 228 PS. 1370kg
2003-02-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 143.721 km/h 8:36:000

Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster S. 252 PS. 1386 kg
1999-12-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 144.844 km/h 8 32 000

Horst von Saurma (D) Chevrolet Corvette. 344 PS. 1505 kg
1997-07-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 142.615 km/h 8:40:000

ZV

EDIT: Clarity, multiple spaces don't show up in the post.

To be fair, he specifically mentions the Z06, which is certainly faster than the base 'Vette from 6 years ago.

No Z06 lap times from Nurburgring. I doubt that it's 8 seconds per lap faster, but I can try to look up some other tracks that keep records.

ZV

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marshallj
In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

Then why does the 'Vette get its ass handed to it on the Nurburgring by the Boxster? Same track and the same driver.

Official Lap times:
Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster '03. 228 PS. 1370kg
2003-02-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 143.721 km/h 8:36:000

Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster S. 252 PS. 1386 kg
1999-12-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 144.844 km/h 8 32 000

Horst von Saurma (D) Chevrolet Corvette. 344 PS. 1505 kg
1997-07-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 142.615 km/h 8:40:000

ZV

EDIT: Clarity, multiple spaces don't show up in the post.

Going by the horsepower numbers listed on those results, it's apparent that they're comparing the high end Boxster (the Boxster S) vs. the base model Corvette (C5)

We are supposed to be talking about the Z06 Corvette. The Z06 has a more powerful engine, has different transmission ratios, is lighter, and has a race-tuned suspension.

Please choose a comparison that compares the cars that we are talking about.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You'll notice that he conveniently ignored the Nurburgring lap times.

ZV

And EVERYONE ELSE will notice that the Nurburgring lap times you listed compare the plain jane C5 Vette to the high end Boxster S, instead of the Z06 Vette that we are talking about. Nice try though.

Either compare the regular C5 Vette to the regular Boxster, or compare the Z06 Vette to the Boxster S.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: Marshallj
You sound young. How old are you and what kind of performance car do you drive?

and you have an ignore list in your signature...
Pot? Kettle?

What does that prove? We are talking about cars and I asked him how old he was and what kind of car he drove.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
No Z06 lap times from Nurburgring. I doubt that it's 8 seconds per lap faster, but I can try to look up some other tracks that keep records.

ZV

Hmmm, I wonder how unbiased a German guy driving a German car at a German track will be? Do you think he'll have a bias towards the German car or the American car?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marshallj
In real life situations, the Z06 will outhandle the Boxster S.

Then why does the 'Vette get its ass handed to it on the Nurburgring by the Boxster? Same track and the same driver.

Official Lap times:
Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster '03. 228 PS. 1370kg
2003-02-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 143.721 km/h 8:36:000

Horst von Saurma (D) Porsche Boxster S. 252 PS. 1386 kg
1999-12-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 144.844 km/h 8 32 000

Horst von Saurma (D) Chevrolet Corvette. 344 PS. 1505 kg
1997-07-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 142.615 km/h 8:40:000

ZV

EDIT: Clarity, multiple spaces don't show up in the post.

Going by the horsepower numbers listed on those results, it's apparent that they're comparing the high end Boxster (the Boxster S) vs. the base model Corvette (C5)

We are supposed to be talking about the Z06 Corvette. The Z06 has a more powerful engine, has different transmission ratios, is lighter, and has a race-tuned suspension.

Please choose a comparison that compares the cars that we are talking about.

Found a Z06 lap time for Nurburgring: 8:53.6. Not by a professional driver though. I'll continue looking, since it seems that you have no interest in comparing lap times which are, of course, the only non-synthetic benchmark for cars. Test-track numbers are nothing more than theoretical peak outputs under ideal conditions. Going strictly by test-track numbers is like comparing computer hard drives on interface speed and nothing else.

ZV

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: Marshallj
You sound young. How old are you and what kind of performance car do you drive?

and you have an ignore list in your signature...
Pot? Kettle?

What does that prove? We are talking about cars and I asked him how old he was and what kind of car he drove.

You post was worded in a such a way to imply that you were somehow insulting him by calling him young. I was merely saying that you sounded quite young yourself. If I was debating, I wouldn't try to discredit somebodies opinion by pointing out a flaw that is(quite obviously) found in myself.

You sound like such a white person

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

You sound like such a white person

Huh????

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Marshallj]

For what it's worth, while I am searching I keep running into the same cars being compared- The Viper, Z06, and 911 Turbo.

It sounds like the Z06 is more in the 911 turbo's class than the Boxster's.

 

[KMHPaladin]

What sort of comparison is a Corvette, a Z06, against a freakin' Boxster? The 911GT3 runs in a lower ACO class than the Corvette, before you even talk about lower-end Porsches!