Port/Airport Security

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Having spent a good deal of time flying back and forth to Florida recently, I've started becoming annoyed yet again by the placebo that is our airport security. I'll focus only on my most recent trip, which took me to Ft. Lauderdale to a conference in the port there. The port was a 'secure zone', complete with armed guards (read: plastic police) checking photo IDs and asking where I was going each time I entered the port. Fine. Whatever.

As some of you may recall, I have previously spoken out against the idiocy that is our airport 'security'. I was being overly generous above when I called it a placebo, as anyone who has given the situation any thought realizes that it transcends placebo and borders on farce. How does the security checkpoint work?
1. Your person is checked using a metal detector.
2. Your bag is x-rayed.
And, most ridiculous of all,
3. Your SHOES are x-rayed.

So, if I want to take a bomb on the plane, I just put it anywhere other than in my shoes or in my bag and I'm good to go. I could hold enough plastique in my pocket to easily take out any commercial airliner, and it would be completely undetectable using a metal detector. Alternatively, I could fill Coke bottles with liquids that could be mixed to produce explosives or corrosives. They could look just like regular soda, passing completely undetected through the x-ray device. Or I could even stuff a shaving cream bottle with explosives. Getting any of these things through even a 100% accurate x-ray device would be completely trivial.

Of course, the above paragraph is a complete joke, since it assumes that the x-ray device/metal detectors are fool-proof and work every time. This is obviously a poor assumption, as they are only as strong as the worker who mans them. The TSA workers at the airport here in St. Louis, Tampa, and Ft. Lauderdale all managed to miss my pocket knife that was in a side pocket of my toiletry kit. So, I had boarded three planes with the knife. On my second time through security in Tampa (after a flight got delayed), security found the knife and took it. So, without even attempting to conceal the 'lethal weapon', I had successfully passed it through 75% of all security checkpoints I passed through. But it gets better. My razor, which was in the toiletry kit and was seen by the security agent prior to his finding the knife, was left where it was. Obviously, the 1/2" blade of the pocket knife was more dangerous than the razor, right? :roll:

The port security in Ft. Lauderdale was even more laughable. As long as someone in the vehicle flashed an ID and could name a single event going on within the port at the time, the guards didn't think twice about handing you a pass and sending you on your way. No vehicle searches, nothing. The last day I was there, two US Navy ships (a destroyer and a cruiser, I believe) were in port, as were three cruise ships and an oil tanker. I drove in my rented SUV and was merrily on my way, free to drive right up to any of these ships.

What is my point? That if you honestly feel safer because of security measures implemented before or after 9/11, you're living in a dream world. This is not to say that it's the government's fault. Indeed, the government has given the people exactly what they crave: a false sense of security. Reality check: the American people would not tolerate the amount of hassle that would be required to truly provide any non-trivial level of security. Such security would require thorough searches of all vehicles entering and exiting ports, checking the names of all passengers against lists of suspects, chemical analysis of all fluids to be taken into/out of these facilities, and a complete search of all bags being carried on/checked onto an airplane. The additional staffing, equipment, money, and time required for all of these tasks would be completely ridiculous, making any form of travel virtually impossible. So, we go happily about our business in complete ignorance because someone has rubber-stamped the security measures. Am I frightened that I'm flying back to Florida tomorrow with this faux security in place? Not at all. Nor do I feel any safer than when I flew pre-9/11. I just hope that others have also recognized this and do not really think that the changes have made any difference.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I couldn't agree more. Airport security is designed, or so it would seem, to focus a lot of visable effort on all travelers without doing things that might actually stop a real threat. But that's fine, because as you pointed out, the real reason for the "new" security is so people FEEL safer. Last time I was in one of those endless lines to go through security, a person standing next to me remarked that he felt a lot safer with all the new security...while I was thinking that the security LINE would make an excellent target if I was a suicide bomber (a musing I kept to myself). Like I said, that's fine, the best we can really do is security theater...the REAL protection comes from the rarity of terrorist attacks, and longer term, the efforts to find the terrorists BEFORE they do anything.

Really, we'd be far more secure if we took all the security theater money and put it into intelligence budgets and other efforts to find terrorists before they try anything. Of course doing this would actually make people feel LESS secure, even though it would be a better value for your security dollar than even the most invasive of security checks. But like I said, terrorism is rare, it's almost more important that people FEEL safe...because in reality, they are pretty safe, and they would BE pretty safe even if you were allowed to just walk onto the plane with whatever you wanted.
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
0
its all about making dumb people feel safe and creating jobs i guess. All it stops is the very stupid criminals, and people that aren't criminals.
 

eilute

Senior member
Jun 1, 2005
477
0
0
I'm not too sure about all that. I'm sure there holes in security. They do do a reasonable job of keeping guns out of the passenger cabin though. It might also keep fair sized bombs made from readily accessible materials off the plane (I'm presuming that C4 is harder to make than ammonium nitrites).

That being said, I'm not really worried that my airplane is going to crash while I'm on it. I'm actually much more worried that airplanes in the sky are going to crash in to me. I happened to go to the top of the Empire State Building in October of 2001. It's a lot more creepy than any airplane.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: eilute
I'm not too sure about all that. I'm sure there holes in security. They do do a reasonable job of keeping guns out of the passenger cabin though. It might also keep fair sized bombs made from readily accessible materials off the plane (I'm presuming that C4 is harder to make than ammonium nitrites).
Anyone with access to the internet can easily find out how to make bombs that are completely undetectable with a metal detector and indistinguishable from a beverage or toiletry product with an x-ray scanner. I could easily stop at WalMart on my way to the airport and get everything I need.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
I've never thought the TSA was worth even a tenth of the money spent on them. Especially after they confiscated my swiss army knife as who knows what sort of damage I could cause with that while flying on a small communter turbo-prop. I could killed almost 9 people with that 1.5" blade.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
If you think airport security is bad (which it is) then just look at the security at train stations. Two terrorist attacks target trains in Spain and England and has the security here in America changed? No. For example at Trenton (NJ) train station there is absolutely NO security (the same is true for the whole northeast corridor). No metal detectors, no [anything] detectors, and no security lines. You could walk onto a train with anything you want and it would probably go unnoticed.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Extra security in some places serves its greatest purpose as a deterrent. If something looks more secure, it seems less vunerable.

For example.. you have a guard house at a gate somewhere, and inside the shack is a shotgun ready to go. Now take another guard house, and have one of the guards holding a shotgun up in the ready position. Both guard houses are almost equally "secure" , but guess which one is more likely to be comprimised.

By visually seeing that you and your equipment has to go through all sorts of gadgets in itself is a deterrent. Will it stop everyone? Of course not.
 

43st

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
3,197
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Extra security in some places serves its greatest purpose as a deterrent. If something looks more secure, it seems less vunerable.

For example.. you have a guard house at a gate somewhere, and inside the shack is a shotgun ready to go. Now take another guard house, and have one of the guards holding a shotgun up in the ready position. Both guard houses are almost equally "secure" , but guess which one is more likely to be comprimised.

By visually seeing that you and your equipment has to go through all sorts of gadgets in itself is a deterrent. Will it stop everyone? Of course not.

The problem is that it religates a terrorist attack right along side a petty crime. The main difference being a terrorist attack is always well planned in advance, joints are cased, notes are taken, research is done. The illusion of security is quickly seen through when one is spending that much time in the planning phase.

If you want to stop terrorist attacks hire 50 MIT engineers and have them devise 50 seperate airline hijack/attack plans. Then build your security around those plans.

As you well know TallBill... know your enemy.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
I flew the week before 9/11. (Actually flew home on 9/10) When I went through the Anchorage Airport on my departure there were two security screening lines, two people at each x-ray booth and one person watching the traffic flow making sure that nobody was trying to "in through the out door". A total of five people and the lines moved along quickly.

I had to fly to Prudhoe in October. There were now 15(!!!) people working the lines (not including the machine-gun toting NG guys) and the line took forever to get through. Ok... I could understand that.

A year later, I noticed other changes. The 15 people were still there and the security area had expanded to twice its previous size. (Probably to make room for all the new employees) There were plasma TVs (at $8k a shot) all over the place telling me what to do when I got to the front of the line. I joked with my boss about it... "Why spend $300 on a 32" TV when an $8k plasma will do..." At that point I knew that the "extra security" was a very expensive joke.

For nearly a year I was on the "watch list". Actually, as it was explained to me, my name was similar to someone on the watch list so every time I went to the airport they had to take my ID into the back and make me stand there for 20 minutes while they called the FBI or whatever and I couldn't check-in on line.

Today... almost five years later, the 15 guys are still there. And while logic would lead you to believe that three times the staff should be able to get you through the line three times faster, in actuality it now takes three times longer. (The law of inverse proportions!) They are now randomly selecting one blonde grandma for additional screening everytime I fly. Billions and billions of dollars to make my travel more of a headache while at the same time doing virtually nothing to make me safer.

Other than the altered psychology of "just sit still, be quiet and we'll all live", 9/11 could happen again tomorrow.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
This is just an illusion of security to make white fat Americans feel safe.... A bunch of BS and of course a waste of tax payers money.

Welcome to America as just more and more of rights are being taken away daily.

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Security is better than pre 9/11, if nothing else because of much more awareness, but to get really good security, we've have to have more incidents and become more like the Israelis. And then we've have ericlp jabberring like an idiot even more.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
So, if I want to take a bomb on the plane, I just put it anywhere other than in my shoes or in my bag and I'm good to go. I could hold enough plastique in my pocket to easily take out any commercial airliner, and it would be completely undetectable using a metal detector. Alternatively, I could fill Coke bottles with liquids that could be mixed to produce explosives or corrosives. They could look just like regular soda, passing completely undetected through the x-ray device. Or I could even stuff a shaving cream bottle with explosives. Getting any of these things through even a 100% accurate x-ray device would be completely trivial.

Wrong. You have to take your jacket off for the x-ray also. They are looking for military grade high explosives, things that show up on x-rays. You cannot smuggle it up your a$$ or in coke cans. They are not looking for materials that can be used in home bombs, that isn't what worries them. Anything you can make at home is not high explosives and takes too much material and/or is too volatile to transport. The are looking for small blocks of C4 not 20lbs of manure and window cleaner.

Of course, the above paragraph is a complete joke, since it assumes that the x-ray device/metal detectors are fool-proof and work every time. This is obviously a poor assumption, as they are only as strong as the worker who mans them. The TSA workers at the airport here in St. Louis, Tampa, and Ft. Lauderdale all managed to miss my pocket knife that was in a side pocket of my toiletry kit. So, I had boarded three planes with the knife. On my second time through security in Tampa (after a flight got delayed), security found the knife and took it. So, without even attempting to conceal the 'lethal weapon', I had successfully passed it through 75% of all security checkpoints I passed through. But it gets better. My razor, which was in the toiletry kit and was seen by the security agent prior to his finding the knife, was left where it was. Obviously, the 1/2" blade of the pocket knife was more dangerous than the razor, right? :roll:\\
True enough. The TSA agents are a step down from burger flippers. But small blades are not a huge concern, the more they crack down on petty stuff the longer lines get and the less people that fly, it's a trade off - kind of the way you righties support and all wiretapping if Bush does it.

What is my point? That if you honestly feel safer because of security measures implemented before or after 9/11, you're living in a dream world. This is not to say that it's the government's fault. Indeed, the government has given the people exactly what they crave: a false sense of security. Reality check: the American people would not tolerate the amount of hassle that would be required to truly provide any non-trivial level of security. Such security would require thorough searches of all vehicles entering and exiting ports, checking the names of all passengers against lists of suspects, chemical analysis of all fluids to be taken into/out of these facilities, and a complete search of all bags being carried on/checked onto an airplane. The additional staffing, equipment, money, and time required for all of these tasks would be completely ridiculous, making any form of travel virtually impossible. So, we go happily about our business in complete ignorance because someone has rubber-stamped the security measures. Am I frightened that I'm flying back to Florida tomorrow with this faux security in place? Not at all. Nor do I feel any safer than when I flew pre-9/11. I just hope that others have also recognized this and do not really think that the changes have made any difference.

Security is better, much better. 100% of all checked luggage goes through level 1 screening now, that cost us billions. Of course it's not fool proof, but when you have most of HHS money going to pork in red states with nothing to secure what do you expect? Remember 9/11 was a bunch of guys with box cutters and empty threats that flew the planes, it wasn't about explosives...

<br
 

ECUHITMAN

Senior member
Jun 21, 2001
815
0
0
Obviously the system is not fool proof and I have two examples of that. My uncle is a sales rep and is always flying on air planes. He used to live in Boston and now lives in Raleigh North Carolina. After 9/11 (and after the shoe bomber attempt) he found in his carry on a lighter and a fairly small pocket knife. They were in the top pocket in his over night bag. He had taken many flights since 9/11 and the lighter and pocket knife went with him on many flights and no one found them. To this day he keeps it in his carry on just to see if one day someone will find it.

Second: I was going on vacation to Bermuda last year and had to change planes in Charlotte international airport. While in the waiting area near the desk I noticed directly across from me this little 8 or 9 year old girl pull from her Barbie book bag a pair of scissors. Now I am not talking about a small pair that is mainly made from plastic, I am talking about a pair of scissors you might find in your kitchen or study. She proceeded to cut pictures out of a magazine while we were all waiting for the plane to start boarding. Many airport personnel (flight attendants, pilots, and security) walked by this little girl cutting stuff out of a magazine in plain view. Not one person said anything to her, and obviously her Barbie book bag went through the x-ray machine and the scissors were not picked up. My question is this: If on 9/11 the planes were hijacked using box cutters, how does this little girl get threw security with a full sized pair of scissors that are LARGER than the box cutters used on 9/11?
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Security is better than pre 9/11, if nothing else because of much more awareness, but to get really good security, we've have to have more incidents and become more like the Israelis. And then we've have ericlp jabberring like an idiot even more.

Wrong. We are more secure than the Israelis, gestapo tactics aside (an irony I expect is lost on our Jewish friends), for a lot of reasons...most of which come from the fact that terrorist is very rare in our country. You have very little chance of being involved in a terrorist action when you fly, not because of the brain dead rent-a-cop federal employee asking you to take your shoes off...but because airline terrorism is very, very rare. That is by far the best protection, and we should really be thinking about how to keep it that way rather than trying to beef up security to oppose legions of terrorists that don't exist.
 
Jun 27, 2005
76
0
0
I fly outside the US twice a year.... and I agree with the original post... many times I have been able to get on the plane with a 14-in-1 tool (that includes a 3inch blade, screwdriver, etc) in my carry on... yet one time my lighter (I dont smoke, but I had a "fancy" bmw lighter as a gift) was not allowed, and they took it away.. even though the TSA allows two butane lighters per person(I came to know this AFTER it happened)... perhaps the TSA official liked my lighter...

I fly out of Newark and JFK... security is pretty bad... anyone with some training in explosives and weapons would be able to bring on to the plane enough stuff to bring it down...

But here is my contribution to the post... even if cockpit doors have been reinforced(I assume)... two weeks ago I saw one of the pilots open the cockpit door.. arent those supposed to be shut before take off??, and not be opened until after we land.... I thought that was "funny".... I guess security measures are more like guidelines now.... instead of rules.
 
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