Possible AIDS cure found

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Heard about this the other day and didn't see a post about it, so I thought I'd share it. My apologies if this is a repost.

AIDS cure

Researchers, including a BYU scientist, believe they have found a new compound that could finally kill the HIV/AIDS virus, not just slow it down as current treatments do.
And, unlike the expensive, drug cocktails 25 years of research have produced for those with the deadly virus, the compound invented by Paul D. Savage of Brigham Young University appears to hunt down and kill HIV.
Although so far limited to early test tube studies, CSA-54, one of a family of compounds called Ceragenins (or CSAs), mimics the disease-fighting characteristics of anti-microbial and anti-viral agents produced naturally by a healthy human immune system.
Under a study sponsored by Ceragenix Pharmaceuticals, Savage and his colleagues developed and synthesized the compound for Vanderbilt University's School of Medicine. In his Nashville, Tenn., laboratories, Derya Unutmaz, an associate professor of Microbiology and Immunology, tested several CSAs for their ability to kill HIV.
While issuing a cautious caveat about his early results, Unutmaz acknowledged Monday that CSAs could be the breakthrough HIV/AIDS researchers have sought for so long.
"We received these agents [from BYU] in early October and our initial results began to culminate by November 2005. We have since reproduced all our results many times," he said. "We have some preliminary but very exciting results [but] we would like to formally show this before making any claims that would cause unwanted hype."
What studies to date show is a compound that attacks HIV at its molecular membrane level, disrupting the virus from interacting with their primary targets, the "T-helper" class white blood cells that comprise and direct the human immune system. Further, CSAs appear to be deadly to all known strains of HIV.
That would be a welcome development for the estimated 40.3 million people now living with HIV/AIDS globally, including nearly 5 million newly infected in the past year alone.
"We have devoted considerable resources to understand the mechanism of these compounds. We think this knowledge will enable us in collaboration with Dr. Savage to design even better compounds," Unutmaz said.
In addition to being a potential checkmate to HIV, the compounds show indications of being just as effective against other diseases plaguing humankind - among them influenza, possibly even the dread bird flu, along with smallpox and herpes.
Savage said he and his BYU research team had been studying CSAs for eight years, noting the compounds' value against microbial and bacteria infections. It was only a year ago they saw that CSAs killed viruses, too.
"They kill viruses very effectively and in a way paralleling our own, natural defenses," Savage said, noting that beyond the obvious use as a weapon against the AIDS pandemic, CSAs could help many others with non-HIV immune deficiencies.
Further, the compounds appear to have few limits on how they are delivered to patients. Although early indications are for application of CSAs with an ointment or cream, pills or injections may also be developed - if the compound gets to market.
BYU and Vanderbilt have jointly filed a patent on CSA technology, which has been licensed exclusively to Ceragenix.
Ceragenix CEO and Chairman Steven Porter said only further research will tell, but he was optimistic about the application of CSAs in the war on HIV/AIDS. There are indications that it could help battle antibiotic- and antiviral-resistance strains of disease as they manifest themselves.
"We are encouraged . . . that CSAs may provide a completely unique family of anti-infectives, potentially active against a wide range of viral, fungal and bacterial targets, including those resistant to current therapies," he said.
Assuming continued positive test results in animal and eventual human trials, Porter estimates it could be three to seven years before the compound is available by prescription. That transition could be accelerated, however, if the Food and Drug Administration should decide to fast-track the drug.
That day is still a long way off, though. First, researchers plan to publish their results in scientific journals, seeking peer review and independent confirmation of their findings. Assuming no flaws are found, several rounds of testing would follow.
Most of the nation's leading AIDS experts were attending the Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in Denver on Monday. The event's policies prohibits on-site news conferences or releases during the conference, and efforts to reach scientists there were not successful.
Of the few AIDS research luminaries reached, all said they preferred not to comment on the Vanderbilt tests until full results are published.

Sure hope it works!
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
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Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.

Who says you need a team to win you superbowl? You just need to hire some refs!

I understand what you're trying to say, but what has been listed are test results. I'm sure the reference papers will be out shortly, after a few more test. Otherwise, you'll have to forgive me for getting overly excited about what would undoubtable be an incredible breakthrough and success.
 

TrevorRC

Senior member
Jan 8, 2006
989
0
0
Nice, but as Meuge said, not planning on holding my breath.

Until they hit the journals and have a chance to be reviewed, it's a claim, no more no less. (Like that of the Raelians' regarding a successful human clone.)
 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
2
0
Researchers, including a BYU scientist,

COMMENT CONSIDERED TOO EXTREME!

-----------------------------------
Second half of the comment is uncalled for

Mod
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Meuge
Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.

Who says you need a team to win you superbowl? You just need to hire some refs!

I understand what you're trying to say, but what has been listed are test results. I'm sure the reference papers will be out shortly, after a few more test. Otherwise, you'll have to forgive me for getting overly excited about what would undoubtable be an incredible breakthrough and success.
I understand your excitement... if I was less familiar with the scientific world, this kind of news would get me excited too. But in this case, I would say the chances are about 99.99% that it's nothing more than vaporware... Duke Nukem Forever-style, if you wish.

And first and foremost reason why it's vaporware (or scientific quackery is more like it) is because the scientific concepts behind it are deeply flawed and are incompatible with known HIV physiology. If you'd like I can explain why.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but trust me - I'd be no less excited than you are to hear real news about an HIV breakthrough... but alas - it may be up to me to produce them.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: BDawg
Researchers, including a BYU scientist,

With BYU involved, I would've thought the cure would be don't have gay sex.

I was waiting for the BYU joke. I can't stand BYU, and I'm LDS. We may not agree with homosexuality, but last I checked that was a method of prevention, not a cure.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: Meuge
Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.
Unutmaz at Vanderbilt has a number of publications.
Text
edit - link doesn't work right, but he has several publications in peer- reviewed journals, mostly on HIV.

Sure, he could be laying it on thick for some buzz, but his results should be subject to peer review at some point.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge

I understand your excitement... if I was less familiar with the scientific world, this kind of news would get me excited too. But in this case, I would say the chances are about 99.99% that it's nothing more than vaporware... Duke Nukem Forever-style, if you wish.

And first and foremost reason why it's vaporware (or scientific quackery is more like it) is because the scientific concepts behind it are deeply flawed and are incompatible with known HIV physiology. If you'd like I can explain why.

Sure, I'm always interested in learning more about how AIDS works and the current trends to cure it.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but trust me - I'd be no less excited than you are to hear real news about an HIV breakthrough... but alas - it may be up to me to produce them.

Am I to understand then that you are currently working on this type of experiments, or are you just being sarcastic?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Meuge
Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.

Who says you need a team to win you superbowl? You just need to hire some refs!

I understand what you're trying to say, but what has been listed are test results. I'm sure the reference papers will be out shortly, after a few more test. Otherwise, you'll have to forgive me for getting overly excited about what would undoubtable be an incredible breakthrough and success.
I understand your excitement... if I was less familiar with the scientific world, this kind of news would get me excited too. But in this case, I would say the chances are about 99.99% that it's nothing more than vaporware... Duke Nukem Forever-style, if you wish.

and first and foremost reason why it's vaporware (or scientific quackery is more like it) is because the scientific concepts behind it are deeply flawed and are incompatible with known HIV physiology. If you'd like I can explain why.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but trust me - I'd be no less excited than you are to hear real news about an HIV breakthrough... but alas - it may be up to me to produce them.

Not being an asshole, but could you explain? Ill probally learn myself why in a few years, but right now Im clueless
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Sure, I'm always interested in learning more about how AIDS works and the current trends to cure it.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Not being an asshole, but could you explain? Ill probally learn myself why in a few years, but right now Im clueless
Sure, I'll be happy to - but first I gotta shovel about 2 feet of snow in front of the house (pretty heavy blizzard in NY). Give me about an hour.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Am I to understand then that you are currently working on this type of experiments, or are you just being sarcastic?
I am an immunologist. I am not working directly with HIV at this point, but I AM working on the mechanisms of the natural anti-viral responses. It is not out of the question that my research may yield information that is pertinent to the HIV issue.

That being said (and for the reasons I'll explain later) the idea of "curing" an HIV infection is pretty far-fetched.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
The news made it across the pond:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4696496.stm
"We have some preliminary but very exciting results.
"But we would like to formally show this before making any claims that would cause unwanted hype."

You can kill hiv in a test tube with bleach. So from what I understand the trick is to find something that kills hiv and doesn't hurt the human body.
Looking at the info on this on web it looks like it appears in a lot of business publications. Maybe they are trying to get funding or investors to continue the research?
Anyway, any progress in retarding or curing hiv would be welcome news. Lets hope they are on to something.
And, Doc Meuge, I would be interesting in knowing why a cure is near impossible? I have heard hiv can hide out in places in the body that it is difficult to get drugs to, but I always thought a cure possible though unlikely. Most viruses are really "cured" by prevention in the form of vaccination if I remember correctly.

 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Even if this was for real and scientifically rigorous, the body is MUCH different than a test tube. There are about 5 gajillion more variables you have to take into account once you move to humans.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Meuge
Nope... not a single peer-reviewed article has been published by the "scientist" in the article, nor can I find a single peer-reviewed reference to the chemical in questions, nor to the entire CLASS of chemicals they are talking about.

Sorry to disappoint you, but talking about "results" in molecular biology, without a single published article, is sort of like claiming the superbowl cup before you even form the team.

The article above is freedom of the press, in that the press is free to make up what they want.

Superbowl "cup"?!!?...

http://www.vincelombardi.com/about/trophy.html

lol
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,924
259
126
I saw this in the "New Scientist" magazine and was appalled to read at the end of the article how the entire chemical group has never even been tested in humans and the only results in animals were mixed. Sure, take the poison and cure your AIDS... as well as the human ailment called life.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: MadRat
I saw this in the "New Scientist" magazine and was appalled to read at the end of the article how the entire chemical group has never even been tested in humans and the only results in animals were mixed. Sure, take the poison and cure your AIDS... as well as the human ailment called life.

I don't know, if I had AIDS already and the only "medication" would either heal me or kill me, I think I'd take the chance, especially if I was towards the end of my rope.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Sure, I'm always interested in learning more about how AIDS works and the current trends to cure it.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Not being an asshole, but could you explain? Ill probally learn myself why in a few years, but right now Im clueless
Sure, I'll be happy to - but first I gotta shovel about 2 feet of snow in front of the house (pretty heavy blizzard in NY). Give me about an hour.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Am I to understand then that you are currently working on this type of experiments, or are you just being sarcastic?
I am an immunologist. I am not working directly with HIV at this point, but I AM working on the mechanisms of the natural anti-viral responses. It is not out of the question that my research may yield information that is pertinent to the HIV issue.

That being said (and for the reasons I'll explain later) the idea of "curing" an HIV infection is pretty far-fetched.

Did you get lost in the snow?
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Did you get lost in the snow?
Sort of. Instead of 12 inches of snow, we had more like 2.5feet... I've had to dig out 3 cars as well as the entire front of the house. I am very exhausted, and just made it back. Give me a bit of a break, heh... I'll be back.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Not to make a nasty comment but I took care of patient today with end stage AIDS...perhaps that should be a method of prevention, showing people pictures/video of what happens near the end. Meuge would understand this, her WBC count was .5, lab had us redraw since they thought they screwed up, 2nd draw came back as .6

She's in a horrible state, terribly skinny, not taking her meds, etc etc...If that isnt enough inspiration to don a rubber I dont know what is.

But Meuge is correct I couldnt find a peer reviewed article by the scientist in the article....hokey medicine...
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
and first and foremost reason why it's vaporware (or scientific quackery is more like it) is because the scientific concepts behind it are deeply flawed and are incompatible with known HIV physiology. If you'd like I can explain why.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Sure, I'm always interested in learning more about how AIDS works and the current trends to cure it.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Not being an asshole, but could you explain? Ill probally learn myself why in a few years, but right now Im clueless
Ok, here's why I thought it was vaporware.
What studies to date show is a compound that attacks HIV at its molecular membrane level, disrupting the virus from interacting with their primary targets, the "T-helper" class white blood cells that comprise and direct the human immune system.

Disrupting virus-host binding is all well and good... but there is no way that this can "kill" the virus. HIV is a retrovirus, which means it copies its genetic material into the genome of the cells it infects, thus ensuring that the only way to kill the virus is to kill EVERY cell that the virus has infected in the body. Because CD4 T-helper cells are prototypical, but not the only targets of HIV, doing that is literally impossible at this point.

Furthermore, as several prominent studies have shown, saturating the CD4 receptor (which is the T-helper cell receptor that the virus uses for entry into the cell) with interfering antibody does very little to stem the tide of the virus. The reason for that is that HIV is among those membrane-enveloped viruses, which can literally bud from one cell into the other cell on contact - which is indeed the proposed mechanism of how HIV can spread very quickly inside T-cell dense zones of lymph nodes.

So now we have 2 very important concepts which this "research" seems to have totally ignored.

Here's another tidbit of BS:
Further, CSAs appear to be deadly to all known strains of HIV.

No way. It's that simple... We can't even get reverse transcriptase inhibitors (the enzyme that copies the viral RNA genome into DNA) that work on every strain, and the reverse trascriptase gene is the least mutated part of the viral genome. Membrane antigens of HIV will vary so drastically that a totally new antigenic isotype will emerge every few months in a single infected person... which is the mechanism of how in untreated HIV the viral load fluctuates so wildly (from undetectable to huge), as the immune system is almost successful at eliminating the infection, but the virus slips away... time after time.

So that's another arrow into the heart of this quackery.

Here's some more though:
In addition to being a potential checkmate to HIV, the compounds show indications of being just as effective against other diseases plaguing humankind - among them influenza, possibly even the dread bird flu, along with smallpox and herpes.

I give up. These viruses are so exquisitely different from HIV and each other, that there is simply no way a single class of compounds could affect them all. It's sort of like making a new type of melon, and then claiming we can use it to feed all animals from insects to humans.
Originally posted by: techs
And, Doc Meuge, I would be interesting in knowing why a cure is near impossible? I have heard hiv can hide out in places in the body that it is difficult to get drugs to, but I always thought a cure possible though unlikely. Most viruses are really "cured" by prevention in the form of vaccination if I remember correctly.
HIV is a bastard. Though it prefers CD4+ T-cells, it can infect a wide variety of other immune system cells, and there is even evidence that it can infect unrelated targets (such as neurons, I believe). These "reservoirs" often don't feature the virus in it lytic (active, replicating, cytotoxic) state, and thus are virtually undetectable by the immune system. Since the viral DNA becomes a part of the cellular genome, to completely clear the virus one would need to kill ALL the infected cells... and if they are undetectable, then it's an impossible task.

And the problem with targeting HIV with small molecules lies in its incredible rate of mutation. The enzyme that it uses to replicate its genome makes so many mistakes along the way, that it causes the virus population even within one patient to vary wildly, causing antigenic drift (losing characteristics which the immune system can recognize virus and infected cells by) and very quickly developing drug resistances.

My advisor in college (the professor whose lab I worked in) always said that the solution to the HIV issue is not likely to be pharmaceutical, but rather epidemiological.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
frankly, I can't see any decent science coming out of Brigham Young University.

Is there some actual logical reason for this feeling, or is it simply because it is owned and operated by the LDS church?
 
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