Possible coup in Turkey

[norseamd]

Here's "another" source.

Former NATO commander ‘behind failed coup against Erdogan’

Just tells me that the Turkish/Russian alignment that was proceeding along until the Syria spat is back on track.

 

[agent00f]

Hence why I linked RT. That's not onion, it's from Turkey. And if you don't like what Erdogan is saying about us... well, what are we going to do, kick him out of NATO?

I'm betting our leaders are preparing to hand over Gulen. As well as giving a free pass to human rights violations during the Erdogan revolution. They cannot imagine a world in which we don't beg Turkey to remain in NATO.

You have a rather naive view of intl relations. For example, the US only uses "human rights" as leverage in negotiations, basically if you don't play ball we're disparage you in the western press, etc; it doesn't actually care about it any more than Erdogan cares about Gulen except whatever currency that's worth.

 

[sontakke]

Once again it seems that some people just don't get it. An organization never calls itself a "Terrorist"; they use the term "Freedom fighters". If you come across a news snippet which has an official name of an entity with the word "Terrorist Organization" in it, whoever made that up has a hidden agenda.

 

[bshole]

Hence why I linked RT. That's not onion, it's from Turkey. And if you don't like what Erdogan is saying about us... well, what are we going to do, kick him out of NATO?

I'm betting our leaders are preparing to hand over Gulen. As well as giving a free pass to human rights violations during the Erdogan revolution. They cannot imagine a world in which we don't beg Turkey to remain in NATO.

Is Gulen meddling in Turkey's affairs? If so, why should we not turn him over? At the very least, it would have propaganda value for the United States.

 

[norseamd]

Is Gulen meddling in Turkey's affairs? If so, why should we not turn him over? At the very least, it would have propaganda value for the United States.

HA!

America spreading propaganda about liberty and human rights in Europe or Asia? America so shameful.

America sending a 75 year old elder man with diabetes and heart problems to his certain death in a Islamist fascist theocratic dictatorship for propaganda value? America so great!!!!!

 

[TheGardener]

Once again it seems that some people just don't get it. An organization never calls itself a "Terrorist"; they use the term "Freedom fighters". If you come across a news snippet which has an official name of an entity with the word "Terrorist Organization" in it, whoever made that up has a hidden agenda.

Aren't you confusing the term 'Rebel' with 'Terrorist'? A Terrorist is someone who goes into a church and beheads an 85 year old priest performing sacraments. I and others could give you a hundred examples of the difference. If you sympathize with terrorists, you have real issues.

 

[bshole]

HA!

America spreading propaganda about liberty and human rights in Europe or Asia? America so shameful.

America sending a 75 year old elder man with diabetes and heart problems to his certain death in a Islamist fascist theocratic dictatorship for propaganda value? America so great!!!!!

Don't scoff. If Gulen did interfere in Turkey's affairs, he should be extradited.

There has been a noticeable rise in anti-American sentiment in Turkey over Ankara's request to extradite a cleric accused of being the mastermind of a recent coup attempt, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said Thursday.

In an interview with broadcaster CNN Turk, Cavusoglu said Turkish-U.S. ties would be adversely affected if Washington does not extradite Fethullah Gulen, who now resides in Pennsylvania.

The United States insists on "concrete evidence" linking Gulen to July 15 coup attempt as a precondition to his extradition.

 

[norseamd]

Aren't you confusing the term 'Rebel' with 'Terrorist'? A Terrorist is someone who goes into a church and beheads an 85 year old priest performing sacraments. I and others could give you a hundred examples of the difference. If you sympathize with terrorists, you have real issues.

Gulenists are never going to call themselves terrorists.

 

[Jaskalas]

Don't scoff. If Gulen did interfere in Turkey's affairs, he should be extradited.

It would appear his people did.
Once that is established the remaining question is his personal involvement.

But this is the same Turkey also blaming a (former) United States General, and NATO Commander.

 

[MajinCry]

Aren't you confusing the term 'Rebel' with 'Terrorist'? A Terrorist is someone who goes into a church and beheads an 85 year old priest performing sacraments. I and others could give you a hundred examples of the difference. If you sympathize with terrorists, you have real issues.

Osama Bin Ladan was the US' homeboy, back in the day. A good ol' rebel fighter resisting communism.

Then we suddenly decided that he was an evil terrorist and had to die. The fun part? He was doing the same shit he was as a terrorist, when he was a rebel.

Welcome to American foreign policy. Propping up evil dudes and then waging war against 'em, consequently raping and slaughtering civilians, since the 1960s.

 

[senseamp]

Erdogan doesn't really want Gulen extradited. He needs him as a permanent bogeyman. I think if Gulen got on a plane and went to Turkey today, Erdogan wouldn't know what to do with him.

 

[ElFenix]

Here's "another" source.

Former NATO commander ‘behind failed coup against Erdogan’

Bank in Nigeria

and this is how i know the story is made up

 

[bshole]

Welcome to American foreign policy. Propping up evil dudes and then waging war against 'em, consequently raping and slaughtering civilians, since the 1960s.

LoL, you should put a trademark on that...

 

[norseamd]

Is Gulen meddling in Turkey's affairs? If so, why should we not turn him over? At the very least, it would have propaganda value for the United States.

LoL, you should put a trademark on that...

HA!

America spreading propaganda about liberty and human rights in Europe or Asia? America so shameful.

America sending a 75 year old elder man with diabetes and heart problems to his certain death in a Islamist fascist theocratic dictatorship for propaganda value? America so great!!!!!

So simple, not even sure what to think about predicting the bullshit.

 

[MajinCry]

LoL, you should put a trademark on that...

Alas, America's been warmongerin' and soldier worshippin' for decades. Probably got that paperwork done 'n' done a long time ago.

 

[sontakke]

and this is how i know the story is made up

Ya, and that stuff about calling oneself "Terrorist Organization".

 

[Jaskalas]

Ya, and that stuff about calling oneself "Terrorist Organization".

Who claimed that they call themselves that? You're making shit up.
"Turkish authorities blamed on what they call the Fethullah Terrorist Organization (FETO)."

The articles clearly state that's what Turkey Erdogan is calling them.

 

[Jaskalas]

First the failed coup. Then the revolution seeded with anti American propaganda.
And now our dear NATO ally is...

Thousands protest outside U.S. base in Turkey

Thousands of Turkish protesters filled the streets outside the U.S. military base at Incirlik, Turkey, on Thursday, burning American flags and demanding that the government close the base.

I wonder how common that is in Turkey.

 

[Oric]

HA!

America spreading propaganda about liberty and human rights in Europe or Asia? America so shameful.

America sending a 75 year old elder man with diabetes and heart problems to his certain death in a Islamist fascist theocratic dictatorship for propaganda value? America so great!!!!!

Age and health does not show the innocence of an individual

The latest I checked we are not living in an Islamist fascist dictatorship. It is a democratically elected government YOU DON'T LIKE. It was a fascist coup attempt YOU SUPPORT. Many civilians were fired upon by the coup attendants, we would have seen the REAL FASCIST DICTATORSHIP if it had suceeded, which I assume you would have celebrated with a parade.

 

[Oric]

First the failed coup. Then the revolution seeded with anti American propaganda.
And now our dear NATO ally is...

Thousands protest outside U.S. base in Turkey


I wonder how common that is in Turkey.

It is common to mock an "ally" who is behind a coup and is trying to hide its guilt by mass propaganda.

 

[norseamd]

Age and health does not show the innocence of an individual

Neither does being the target of hostile actions or attacks, yet here you are running with as such.

 

[sontakke]

This is what you wrote

Bakır and Topçu have been working with Campbell, the former U.S. Commander of the International Security Assistance Forces (ISAF), a NATO force in Afghanistan, for a long time during their duty in ISAF.

Campbell retired from his post in ISAF earlier this year and undertook the “duty" for organizing the coup in Turkey.

After his retirement in March, Campbell started working with an 80-person team of the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to organize a group of Fetullah Terrorist Organization (FETÖ) gangs inside the Turkish military.

 

[bshole]

It is common to mock an "ally" who is behind a coup and is trying to hide its guilt by mass propaganda.

This is an assertion of fact. Assertions must be backed by hard evidence. I am unaware of any facts to back that assertion. If Ergodan has the goods to back this up why has he not released that information? I am open to the possibility of American meddling but the simple assertion that it did meddle does not meet my standard of evidence for proof.

The foreign agitator meme has been used ad nauseum by fascists to garner popularity and support in their homeland. It is one of the most, if not most effective method for consolidating power. What is always missing AND WHAT IS MISSING here is real objective evidence proving that it occurred. Assertions ARE NOT FACTS.

If America backed the coup, this is something that could not have been accomplished outside of the knowledge and approval of President Obama. It buggers the imagination that Obama would ever ok such an act. When America meddled in Cuba with the Bay of Pigs invasion, it was immediately clear that JFK was involved. In this instance, the only indication of American involvement are ASSERTIONS by Ergodan. That is the sum total of the "evidence". Jesus, Ergodan couldn't even get one of the captured coup leaders to back up the American involvement hypothesis.

So Oric, what evidence convinced you of American involvement?

 

[hal2kilo]

Osama Bin Ladan was the US' homeboy, back in the day. A good ol' rebel fighter resisting communism.

Then we suddenly decided that he was an evil terrorist and had to die. The fun part? He was doing the same shit he was as a terrorist, when he was a rebel.

Welcome to American foreign policy. Propping up evil dudes and then waging war against 'em, consequently raping and slaughtering civilians, since the 1960s.

It's about cash flow in the weapons business.

 

[Oric]

This is an assertion of fact. Assertions must be backed by hard evidence. I am unaware of any facts to back that assertion. If Ergodan has the goods to back this up why has he not released that information? I am open to the possibility of American meddling but the simple assertion that it did meddle does not meet my standard of evidence for proof.

The foreign agitator meme has been used ad nauseum by fascists to garner popularity and support in their homeland. It is one of the most, if not most effective method for consolidating power. What is always missing AND WHAT IS MISSING here is real objective evidence proving that it occurred. Assertions ARE NOT FACTS.

If America backed the coup, this is something that could not have been accomplished outside of the knowledge and approval of President Obama. It buggers the imagination that Obama would ever ok such an act. When America meddled in Cuba with the Bay of Pigs invasion, it was immediately clear that JFK was involved. In this instance, the only indication of American involvement are ASSERTIONS by Ergodan. That is the sum total of the "evidence". Jesus, Ergodan couldn't even get one of the captured coup leaders to back up the American involvement hypothesis.

So Oric, what evidence convinced you of American involvement?

OK, good questions.

First of all, let me introduce myself, who "Oric" is. I am almost 50 years old, have worked in important positions in corporate, most of my alumni and coworkers are in important positions including the government. I live in Turkey, travel abroad for business and leisure, I speak 5 languages and 3 of them fluent enough to read from source media.

Therefore i am not feeding myself from traditional mass media, I have enough network to "hear" who has done what. I am a frequent reader of P&N and as you may have noticed I don't write a lot, unless I can give some contribution.

About the US involvement and hard facts to prove it :

First of all, if you believe that there can be easily traceable evidence in international politics and manipulation, you are seriously mistaken. Nothing in the politics are 0 & 1's there are numerous shades of gray and switching of loyalties and pacts. Most of them are inaccessible for years after the event.

We have solid proof of American involvement in the 1980 coup, the famous "Our boys did it"
http://www.thefullwiki.org/1980_Turkish_coup_d'état. It is only common sense that US would like to control Turkey in way possible because it is too important for US Strategic interests for Turkey to drift on her own.

What we can incur without solid evidence, for 2016 attempt, is the clues that we can easily see :

(a) The coup was a genuine one, since 15th of July all the Political Parties have called for big rallies against the coup, condemning the FETO (Fetullah Terror Organization) as the mastermind behind the attempt. Erdogan did not have any popularity in the opposition before the attempt so any evidence otherwise would have been reflected in the opposition's statements

(b) As a member of NATO and a long standing candidate for EU, Turkey has a good record of free elections and a working democracy. Any elected government should receive what kind of a first response from the West ("self appointed Democracy & HR watcher of the globe")
- We condemn the treacherous attempt
- We support Turkish democracy and government
- Can we be of any assistance guys ?

What did come out ? (In the western media + official statements that were quiet hasty and late)
- Did Erdogan plan this coup ?
- Oh they are taking out the Generals that were our friends
- Are our A-Bombs safe in Turkey ?
- Are they torturing the coup attempters ?
etc.

Seldom I have come across articles that went deep into the story of what was happening in Turkey and little sympaty towards Turkish people who dared to stand in front of the tanks and firing soldiers (260 civilians died in 6 hours)

So, when one thinks "Why does a failed coup attempt in Turkey is portrayed as a fascist Islamist government's victory", using simple logic tells us either the Western States and Media are incredibly naive or they were very symphatetic to the coup attempt

(c) The perpatrators : Most of the generals and high ranks in the coup had long careers in NATO assignments, there are a lot of questions behind this coincidence. It is no secret that Turkish politics are a balance in between pro-USA and pro-Eurasian. This is not a religious vs secular divide, this is more on the long term stance of the country.

(d) Fetullah Gulen : This old cleric is living in the USA, his organization has opened schools around 100 countries and seems to support a light version of Sharia. His organization started during the cold war and was supported by CIA to penetrate into Africa and Asia with a different (non Western/Christian) face. His schools were closed and banned in some countries because of this hidden cause. His pupil has infiltrated almost all governmental structures in Turkey and ousted any other citizen/personell not belonging to their movement. Although his involvement was known for decades, the conservative governments always regarded well educated guys from his movement as an asset. Until they lost total control. His residence in an ally country is a good clue about the forces behind him. We know that rules and regulations are minor nuicance if he wasn't a pawn for the State of America

About Obama : No US President has a 100% say over the run of the state politics, Gulen movement is at least 45 years old, he had to choose among the options presented to him, I assume.

Thx.