Possible coup in Turkey

[Oric]

You are a fool.

Everyone knew there was going to be a coup, but it seems you were the only one who did not, and can not seem to fathom why.

Even a limited view of this article, way back from May 30th, 2016, already makes clear why Erdogan was certain to face a coup.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2016-05-30/turkeys-next-military-coup

This famous article addresses the Kemalist (secularist) powers in the military to go against Erdogan but to everyone's suprise the Gulenists came with an even bigger presence.

I did not write anywhere that "I did not expect a coup", before starting calling names in a civilized discussion maybe you should spend on reading more carefully and answer my questions if you want to.

 

[Oric]

Turkey will play by NATO rules, or it will be sent packing. It's not just Kerry saying that. American people or European people aren't going to stand for their soldiers being on the hook for defending an autocratic state with Islamist aspirations, no independent judiciary, and purges of political opponents. So shape up or ship out. If you bail on the West, or the West bails on you, look to the East to see your not too distant future.

If NATO rules include assisting coups in ally countries, f**k them

For the money we spend on CIA, I'd also be pretty pissed off if this is what they managed to organize.

Needless to say, you too

 

[senseamp]

If NATO rules include assisting coups in ally countries, f**k them
Needless to say, you too

I didn't say they were involved or should be involved, but if they were, then obviously they weren't good at their job.

You don't have to stay in NATO, that's fine.

 

[werepossum]

I didn't say they were involved or should be involved, but if they were, then obviously they weren't good at their job.

You don't have to stay in NATO, that's fine.

At this point, Turkey needs to get out or be put out.

 

[Turkish]

Who knows, maybe Oric was an AKP volunteer at the voting boots, because the more I read his posts, the more he sounds like one of those ultra nationalists who live in an imaginary universe in which Turkey is this glorious nation that faces an international conspiracy to destabilize it.

 

[norseamd]

This famous article addresses the Kemalist (secularist) powers in the military to go against Erdogan but to everyone's suprise the Gulenists came with an even bigger presence.

I did not write anywhere that "I did not expect a coup", before starting calling names in a civilized discussion maybe you should spend on reading more carefully and answer my questions if you want to.

You are focusing on the trees, and not the forest.

http://warontherocks.com/2015/09/turkish-winter-is-coming/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/15/erdogan-has-nobody-to-blame-for-the-coup-but-himself/

 

[werepossum]

Who knows, maybe Oric was an AKP volunteer at the voting boots, because the more I read his posts, the more he sounds like one of those ultra nationalists who live in an imaginary universe in which Turkey is this glorious nation that faces an international conspiracy to destabilize it.

lol Yeah, he did sort of go haywire. Hey, can't be easy living through Islamization and a violent failed coup. People need someone to blame. Someone . . . not like themselves.

 

[MongGrel]

The mind, she is officially boggled.

Yeah, I'd always thought that was called censorship, myself.

A Turkish ATOT members smack down, this could be one for the record books.

I'm not making fun of the issue. Just interesting to read both.

 

[Jaskalas]

What is the first thing Kelly does after a failed coup ? Threaten Turkey to be expelled from NATO ?

Erdogan: "This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

Turkey Widens Purge as Crackdown Continues

The Interior Ministry fired nearly 9,000 police officers on Monday, Turkish officials said. That followed the arrests of 6,000 military personnel and 103 generals and admirals, and the suspensions of nearly 3,000 judges over the weekend.

What Kerry says is the standard diplomatic tone for saying "please do not go overboard". Is there no good reason to fear an end to Turkish Democracy under Erdogan? He has consolidated power, and now his opponents are shut out.

Who is the mastermind behind this coup and in which country he stays ?

A 75 year old exile did it from the other side of the planet? His public speech condemns the coup.
What evidence is there? You want a sacrificial lamb to the slaughter.

In diplomatic terms, these two lines mean a lot. My country's last successful coup was in 1980 in which "Our boys did it" was the motto of the secret service member of an Ally

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%27état

Therefore, it is safe to assume that United States very well knew that there was going to be a coup and the initial reactions after an unsuccessful one is blaming the victim. Why ?

So there's a history that instinctively drives you to blame the United States.
Interesting. But why? The same evidence used to say Erdogan did not stage this himself, suggests that they were a small portion of your military. Made up of desperate men who were about to be retired / cycled out of service. That this was their last chance before Erdogan replaced them with loyal men.

I'd also suggest that our President is not hostile towards Erdogan. That he has been more friendly than we would like. Especially in their joint effort to ship weapons to Syria. Obama backed Erdogan in the recent tension between Russia, did he not? I am not seeing the motive here.

 

[norseamd]

Well, well, well .....

Looks like those 2 pilots that shot down the Russian Su-24 might just end up being "guilty" for doing something that Erdogan and Davutoglu at one time said they were 100% responsible for deciding and ordering.

http://sputniknews.com/world/20160718/1043239951/su-24-pilots-arrested-turkey.html

 

[norseamd]

You know the coup plotters were so inane, amateur, and incompetent, but how the fuck did they ever manage to miss knocking off this guy when he was in the perfect time and place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arRF2K9_eOU

 

[Orignal Earl]

Now I edited the wrong one lol

good thing Mongel quoted me below

 

[norseamd]

I was talking about requiring your news agencies to tell the truth, like they do in most of the top listed countries in the freedom index

It seems it doesn't matter to you that the US is far down that list

Ya, no...censoring the news gets you listed down there where the US is with the third world countries that censor their news

You are playing contradictory narratives here.

 

[MongGrel]

I was talking about requiring your news agencies to tell the truth, like they do in most of the top listed countries in the freedom index
It seems it doesn't matter to you that the US is far down that list
Ya, no...censoring the news gets you listed down there where the US is with the third world countries that censor their news

Censoring news is not freedom of speech.

I do not know what bog you may be living in.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/europe/turkey-president-erdogan-interview-coup/index.html

Sorry the RNC is becoming a complete joke, I'm changing threads.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Censoring news is not freedom of speech.

That's what I said

 

[MongGrel]

That's what I said

Unless you revised it from earlier, no it wasn't. I'm not spending the time to argue with you about something you said a day or two ago.

This would kinda screw things up a lot currently at any rate.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/europe/turkey-president-erdogan-interview-coup/index.html

 

[Orignal Earl]

Unless you revised it from earlier, no it wasn't. I'm not spending the time to argue with you about something you said a day or two ago.

This would kinda screw things up a lot currently at any rate.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/europe/turkey-president-erdogan-interview-coup/index.html

Ya, I clarified that in my post this morning in Mongrels quote

Ya, no...censoring the news gets you listed down there where the US is with the third world countries that censor their news

 

[norseamd]

Welcome to the Turkish Winter: The Great Purge is Just Beginning

Turkey Extends Purge to Universities, Asking All Deans to Go - Bloomberg

 

[IronWing]

First, they came for the... Well crap, they're just coming for everybody, all at once. It's like Turkey just cut the last hundred years out of the history book and jumped back to 1916.

 

[BxgJ]

Welcome to the Turkish Winter: The Great Purge is Just Beginning

Turkey Extends Purge to Universities, Asking All Deans to Go - Bloomberg

The bloomberg article mentioned more than just the deans. What sort of justification is there for firing all of them?

 

[norseamd]

First, they came for the... Well crap, they're just coming for everybody, all at once. It's like Turkey just cut the last hundred years out of the history book and jumped back to 1916.

1916 was far less inquisitional than today I would imagine, I think most of the destruction was committed on outgroups with possibilities of foreign sympathies in a time of war, not that I am excusing genocide.

 

[norseamd]

The bloomberg article mentioned more than just the deans. What sort of justification is there for that?

What do you think?

 

[BxgJ]

What do you think?

Oh I think it's obvious he is consolidating control over the educational system, as well as the political system and military. What I am not sure of is what justification will be given for doing so. The military and political purges he can at least 'say' are due to the coup (though I think it's more than that).

 

[hal2kilo]

I thought one day before I shuffle off, I'd love to visit Istanbul. Now, Turkey which was starting to be a successful non-sectarian democratic republic is slipping into the abyss of shit to the east of them. I really am not interested anymore. Seems they will go down the same shithole that Lebanon did. How sad.

 

[agent00f]

Turkey will play by NATO rules, or it will be sent packing. It's not just Kerry saying that. American people or European people aren't going to stand for their soldiers being on the hook for defending an autocratic state with Islamist aspirations, no independent judiciary, and purges of political opponents. So shape up or ship out. If you bail on the West, or the West bails on you, look to the East to see your not too distant future.
As far as US knowing about the coup, maybe they did, and for the money we spend on CIA, I'd be pretty pissed off if they didn't. But that's not the same as organizing it. For the money we spend on CIA, I'd also be pretty pissed off if this is what they managed to organize.

The US cares far more about geopolitical location than "values".

You are focusing on the trees, and not the forest.

http://warontherocks.com/2015/09/turkish-winter-is-coming/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/15/erdogan-has-nobody-to-blame-for-the-coup-but-himself/

Erdogan basically won again. People who see intl relations as matters of ideology (presumably since that's what they're told) are completely native & deluded about how the world works.