Possible coup in Turkey

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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7,631
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Erdogan shuts down 1,000+ private schools, 1,200+ charities, 15 universities

Guess they can always go to a madrasa.

To put Turkey into a perspective Americans can understand, this would be a President Trump winning election and the next year declaring martial law and targeting the DNC and anyone who ever registered for them. That's why the counter coup is so widespread and heavy hitting against education. It's a political party / movement being attacked. It's the political opposition that are now "terrorists" in Turkey.

Meanwhile United States is patting them on the back while Europe is staring with a look of horror.
 
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Oric

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
888
61
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All the closed schools could be defined as "schools of Islamic faith".

Just as Jaskalas's description fits the picture, the education system being targeted is a "state within a state" group. More dangerous than Erdogan, if they had been successful. Why they are portrayed as part of democratic freedom in the western press sounds fishy.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
All the closed schools could be defined as "schools of Islamic faith".

Just as Jaskalas's description fits the picture, the education system being targeted is a "state within a state" group. More dangerous than Erdogan, if they had been successful. Why they are portrayed as part of democratic freedom in the western press sounds fishy.

Has the news of their danger been recent, or is there a long history of it?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
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All the closed schools could be defined as "schools of Islamic faith".

Just as Jaskalas's description fits the picture, the education system being targeted is a "state within a state" group. More dangerous than Erdogan, if they had been successful. Why they are portrayed as part of democratic freedom in the western press sounds fishy.

Oric seems to have a valid point. Nobody over here has really ever heard of Gulen. Here is some more info. Seems like just another Islamist in sheep's clothing. Basically two Islamist factions fighting for power.

A well-organised community of people - not a political party - named after the US-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen.

He is regarded by followers as a spiritual leader and sometimes described as Turkey's second most powerful man.

The imam promotes a tolerant Islam which emphasises altruism, modesty, hard work and education.

He is also a recluse with a heart condition and diabetes who lives in a country estate in the US state of Pennsylvania.

The movement - known in Turkey as Hizmet, or service - runs schools all over Turkey and around the world, including in Turkic former Soviet Republics, Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Western nations including Romania and the US, where it runs more than 100 schools.

Followers are said to be numerous in Turkey, possibly in the millions, and are believed to hold influential positions in institutions from the police and secret services to the judiciary and Mr Erdogan's ruling AK Party itself.

Mr Gulen made a name for himself by arguing that young Turks had lost their way and that education was the best response, a position that attracted a growing number of middle class followers and led the movement to open schools and expand into business.

As the movement grew, followers began taking jobs inside the machinery of state.

Some, such as commentator Mustafa Akyol, say the aim was to transform Turkey away from secularism, despite Mr Gulen's claims to be focused more on faith and morality than politics.

After the military coup of 1980, the ruling generals suspected him of trying to topple the government and he was arrested after six years on the run. He was freed but eventually charged in 2000 and decided to remain in the US, where he was having medical treatment.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36855846
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
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What is a party, if not a movement of people?
Your own quote makes them sound decent.
The imam promotes a tolerant Islam which emphasises altruism, modesty, hard work and education.

I have no doubt his followers are responsible, it's logical to have extremists among them. The issue is how far up does it go? The "leader" is 75, on the other side of the planet. I'd only hold him responsible if there's topical communications with him on the coup. Not simply guilt by association.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
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What is a party, if not a movement of people?
Your own quote makes them sound decent.


I have no doubt his followers are responsible, it's logical to have extremists among them. The issue is how far up does it go? The "leader" is 75, on the other side of the planet. I'd only hold him responsible if there's topical communications with him on the coup. Not simply guilt by association.

So you are discounting Oric who has to live in the midst of the shit?

I have heard the term "moderate" used SO MANY FUCKING TIMES with respective to blood thirsty theocratic radicals that America supports in the Middle East that it has come to mean RADICAL EXTREMIST JIHADIST to me. I have no reason whatsoever to deny Oric's own personal experience. What reason do you have?

Some, such as commentator Mustafa Akyol, say the aim was to transform Turkey away from secularism,
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
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So you are discounting Oric who has to live in the midst of the shit?

I have heard the term "moderate" used SO MANY FUCKING TIMES with respective to blood thirsty theocratic radicals that America supports in the Middle East that it has come to mean RADICAL EXTREMIST JIHADIST to me. I have no reason whatsoever to deny Oric's own personal experience. What reason do you have?

I'd rather not take Erdogan's word for it. Hence my asking for more information.
And if you take issue with the moderate phrasing of your own article... pick a source you actually agree with.
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
We had another contributor here from Turkey who had different views. Unfortunately, he has not responded in a while.

Personally, I do not believe neither Erdogen nor Gulen wants Turkey to be secular. It won't be the first time that islamists are fighting against each other to impose their own version of islam on the rest of the country.

Rest of the world has to decide which one is less worse.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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So you are discounting Oric who has to live in the midst of the shit?

I have heard the term "moderate" used SO MANY FUCKING TIMES with respective to blood thirsty theocratic radicals that America supports in the Middle East that it has come to mean RADICAL EXTREMIST JIHADIST to me. I have no reason whatsoever to deny Oric's own personal experience. What reason do you have?

When was the first time you heard of Gulen or the Gulen Movement?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
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For some perspective on Turkey and the direction they are headed, I found this interesting...

A Turkish newspaper with links to the country's President has published a homophobic headline calling those who died in the Orlando mass shooting 'perverts' and 'deviants'.

Yeni Akit, a right-wing newspaper which has supported the likes of Al-Qaeda in the past, broke news of the attack with the headline: 'Death toll rises to 50 in bar where perverted homosexuals go!'

The headline has caused a backlash online, where it has been suggested that the exclamation mark indicates that the paper is celebrating the attack, rather than condemning it.

Yeni Akit has long supported Turkey's Justice and Development Party (AKP), which President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan used to lead.

The paper, whose name means 'New Agreement, is also known for having strong links to Erdogan, in a country where press freedom is being heavily restricted by his government.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-strong-ties-country-s-President-Erdogan.html
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,549
1
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I hope he wasn't called a "state within a state" (aka "enemy of the state") and arrested :|

I am fine Thankfully I never needed to be an Erdogan or Gulen sympathizer to do well in school or work. Plus, I am an atheist so they would probably stone me to death, not arrest me. Thank you for your concern
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
I bet with your beliefs, you would be on the radar of both Erdogan and Gulen! Seriously, which one of these two factions is secular? I suspect none.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I am fine Thankfully I never needed to be an Erdogan or Gulen sympathizer to do well in school or work. Plus, I am an atheist so they would probably stone me to death, not arrest me. Thank you for your concern

Are you a closet atheist?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I am fine Thankfully I never needed to be an Erdogan or Gulen sympathizer to do well in school or work. Plus, I am an atheist so they would probably stone me to death, not arrest me. Thank you for your concern
Glad to hear that. Hope you make it out before they get around to atheists.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Glad to hear that. Hope you make it out before they get around to atheists.

Fat chance, atheists are generally the most productive members of any society. They are the wealth generators. He will be left alone.... hopefully.
 
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