Possibly upgrading my heavy duty gaming PC

[squee116]

Hi all!

I'm thinking about building a new gaming pc. I was recently playing Rage and Skyrim, and noticed issues with texture loading and weird spikes of lag.

Currently I run:
AMD x6 1055t overclocked to 3.3Ghz
8 gigs of DDR3 1600 RAM
Asus Crosshair IV Formula Mobo
Windows 7 64 bit

I was hoping to be more impressed by the new Vishera release. I do both heavy multi-threaded applications for photo and movie editing, as well as lots and lots of gaming. I spend more time on the gaming.

I was thinking of going to:
Intel 3570k or 2500k
16 gigs of DDR3 1600 RAM
Asus Sabretooth z77 or Asus Maxiumus V
Windows 7 or Windows 8 64 bit

I know I'd be upgrading the general performance of the computer, but would it improve performance enough to make it worth the investment?

Are there more price effective components which will allow me to overclock?
Besides the new layout gripes, are there technical reasons not to upgrade to Windows 8? Would getting faster ram make an appreciable difference?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't see where you've mentioned what GPU and monitor you have. Perhaps that is the place to start, and not with a platform upgrade?

 

[DSF]

More cost-effective? Good Lord yes. You're overspending on the motherboard by a factor of 2-3.

The first step, as always, is to fill out the questions in the sticky. You hit some of them, but some important ones (like budget) are missing.

Also, you mention gaming as a primary goal, but I don't see any discussion of the video card in your post.

 

[squee116]

I don't see where you've mentioned what GPU and monitor you have. Perhaps that is the place to start, and not with a platform upgrade?

Quite right, I forgot about that.

I have a Sapphire 6870 1gb

I'm not sure what I'd get next, but I prefer single card solutions.

 

[squee116]

More cost-effective? Good Lord yes. You're overspending on the motherboard by a factor of 2-3.

The first step, as always, is to fill out the questions in the sticky. You hit some of them, but some important ones (like budget) are missing.

Also, you mention gaming as a primary goal, but I don't see any discussion of the video card in your post.

Sorry, I missed that.

1. Used for video gaming and various editing tasks, RPG maker as well

2. I don't really have an overall budget, but for parts:
250 for mobo
250 for gpu
250 for cpu
90 for RAM
100 for OS

3. I'm in USA

4. I've had great experience with Asus motherboards and Sapphire video cards, but I can be sold on other brands if they have good customer service and solid reputation.

5. I'll probably be using my NZXT Phantom case and my Corsair TX850 power supply.

*

7. I'll be overclocking

8. Probably 1920 x 1080

9. I'd like to have the system running by early December

 

[VirtualLarry]

256GB SSD, and a new GPU. (7970GE?)

 

[squee116]

I understand that SSDs help as an OS booting platform, but I have close to 700Gbs of games installed right now. Will having the OS installed on the SSD boost gaming performance?

256GB SSD, and a new GPU. (7970GE?)

 

[Net]

you should buy my ram. I'll give you a deal: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2268127

 

[squee116]

you should buy my ram. I'll give you a deal: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2268127

Because I'm a new member, I don't have the privileges to see your post.
I can't tell whether yours are new or used, but I'd prefer new parts as well.

 

[DSF]

I wouldn't worry about that. The kind of post Net is doing isn't really encouraged.

As far as your build, here are my quick thoughts before I head to work:

1. Before you do anything I would determine whether it's the GPU or CPU slowing you down. Make sure your drivers are fully updated, and then try turning your graphics settings down incrementally. If you start to see an improvement in performance, it's likely a GPU issue. If not, your CPU is probably to blame. The second question is whether your current editing tasks are stressing your CPU, and how much of an improvement you're hoping to see.

2. So totaling that up you have about $900-950 to spend. Thinking of your budget as an overall pool, not an allotment per part, is a much more effective way to go about it. For example, you could spend $100-125 on the motherboard and still be able to overclock just fine. The performance difference between a $100 motherboard and a $250 motherboard is negligible.

Again, I would resist the by-part budget, but if you want the best balance of gaming/editing performance you're probably looking at something like this:

CPU: $250-300
GPU: $300-350
Mobo: $100-150 at the most
RAM: 0-90, depending on whether you actually need more than the 8GB you already have. DDR3-1600 is fine.
Do you already have a cooler that can be transferred? If not that's another $20-50 since you're overclocking.

Most of the impact SSDs have on gaming is on loading times, and that only applies if the games are installed on the SSD. Are you planning to reuse your current hard drive(s)? That wasn't mentioned in your post.

 

[riversend]

Agree with DSF on doing the analysis on what is causing the lag. Of course, if you are just dead set on getting some new hardware then that's ok too. You can definitely get some nice upgrades based on what you have.

It looks like your mobo only has beta support for Bulldozer, so I am guessing any further AMD CPU upgrade path is a non-starter.

What is the voltage on your ram?

You have about $940 to spend, so removing the PSU and Case and RAM from mfenn's build gets you this:


i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro3 combo $297 AP
Twin Frozr GTX 670 $370 AR
Samsung 830 128GB $110
Hitachi 7K1000.C $70
Lite-ON DVD Burner $18
Total: $870

Although, I assume you could move over your DVD drive as well. Maybe your cooler as DSF suggested.
Since you are at 1080p you could drop in a 7950, this Sapphire 7950 3GB is only $270AR. This would allow you to bump up to a 256GB SSD (the 256GB 830 is $170 at Newegg).

 

[squee116]

I wouldn't worry about that. The kind of post Net is doing isn't really encouraged.

As far as your build, here are my quick thoughts before I head to work:

1. Before you do anything I would determine whether it's the GPU or CPU slowing you down. Make sure your drivers are fully updated, and then try turning your graphics settings down incrementally. If you start to see an improvement in performance, it's likely a GPU issue. If not, your CPU is probably to blame. The second question is whether your current editing tasks are stressing your CPU, and how much of an improvement you're hoping to see.

2. So totaling that up you have about $900-950 to spend. Thinking of your budget as an overall pool, not an allotment per part, is a much more effective way to go about it. For example, you could spend $100-125 on the motherboard and still be able to overclock just fine. The performance difference between a $100 motherboard and a $250 motherboard is negligible.

Again, I would resist the by-part budget, but if you want the best balance of gaming/editing performance you're probably looking at something like this:

CPU: $250-300
GPU: $300-350
Mobo: $100-150 at the most
RAM: 0-90, depending on whether you actually need more than the 8GB you already have. DDR3-1600 is fine.
Do you already have a cooler that can be transferred? If not that's another $20-50 since you're overclocking.

Most of the impact SSDs have on gaming is on loading times, and that only applies if the games are installed on the SSD. Are you planning to reuse your current hard drive(s)? That wasn't mentioned in your post.

For my hard drives, I have 2 1TB Hitachi's: 1 for games, 1 more editing projects. My OS is installed on a separate 500GB HDD.

I do have a Xigmatek Gaea for a cooler, but I'm not sure what I did with the other baseplates. Also, it just barely fits into my case, and I had pound out a section of the mesh wiring on the case to make it fit. If I could find an efficient cooler that's smaller, that would be okay by me.

Thanks for the helpful tips though. I suppose it would be around $1k even for the build, if it gets me high quality. The major purpose of the upgrade is two-fold: To get me prepped for newer technologies like PCIE 3.0, even though I know I won't be taking advantage of it yet, I'd like to have the option, as well as USB 3.0. Also, to increase my performance in compiling programming, rendering videos, etc. After seeing the latest Anandtech and TomsHardware benches with Vishera series, I sort of lost heart with AMD for this generation. And generally, when I build a PC, I like to know it'll be good for at least another two years.

 

[squee116]

Agree with DSF on doing the analysis on what is causing the lag. Of course, if you are just dead set on getting some new hardware then that's ok too. You can definitely get some nice upgrades based on what you have.

It looks like your mobo only has beta support for Bulldozer, so I am guessing any further AMD CPU upgrade path is a non-starter.

What is the voltage on your ram?

You have about $940 to spend, so removing the PSU and Case and RAM from mfenn's build gets you this:


i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro3 combo $297 AP
Twin Frozr GTX 670 $370 AR
Samsung 830 128GB $110
Hitachi 7K1000.C $70
Lite-ON DVD Burner $18
Total: $870

Although, I assume you could move over your DVD drive as well. Maybe your cooler as DSF suggested.
Since you are at 1080p you could drop in a 7950, this Sapphire 7950 3GB is only $270AR. This would allow you to bump up to a 256GB SSD (the 256GB 830 is $170 at Newegg).

What are your thoughts on matching video cards to cpus? I've heard that ATIs are optimized for AMD, and Nvidias for Intel. Is that just wives' tales of sorts?

In regards to dvd player, I have an extra blu ray writer/player I picked up last black friday just waiting in a box right now.

 

[DSF]

What are your thoughts on matching video cards to cpus? I've heard that ATIs are optimized for AMD, and Nvidias for Intel. Is that just wives' tales of sorts?

That's nonsense. You can mix and match as you please.

If you're really sold on updating to new standards, you may want to consider a newer case that would natively support USB 3.0, such as the Fractal Design Define R4 or Antec P280. They're also likely less noisy than your current Phantom if you care about sound levels.

I take it from your post above though, that you're not satisfied with the compiling/rendering performance of your current CPU. Have you looked at benchmarks that compare the CPU you have to Ivy Bridge and see what kind of performance gains you're looking at? Do you know whether your apps benefit from HyperThreading?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Hi all!

I'm thinking about building a new gaming pc. I was recently playing Rage and Skyrim, and noticed issues with texture loading and weird spikes of lag.

Currently I run:
AMD x6 1055t overclocked to 3.3Ghz
8 gigs of DDR3 1600 RAM
Asus Crosshair IV Formula Mobo
Windows 7 64 bit

I was hoping to be more impressed by the new Vishera release. I do both heavy multi-threaded applications for photo and movie editing, as well as lots and lots of gaming. I spend more time on the gaming.

I was thinking of going to:
Intel 3570k or 2500k
16 gigs of DDR3 1600 RAM
Asus Sabretooth z77 or Asus Maxiumus V
Windows 7 or Windows 8 64 bit

I know I'd be upgrading the general performance of the computer, but would it improve performance enough to make it worth the investment?

Are there more price effective components which will allow me to overclock?
Besides the new layout gripes, are there technical reasons not to upgrade to Windows 8? Would getting faster ram make an appreciable difference?

I honestly don't see why you should do a complete platform upgrade. You would be better of with just a new GFX card. A Radeon HD7850/70 or Geforce 660/660ti will run Skyrim/Rage fine at 1080p. Its only when you get to 1440p they start to slow down a little...:hmm:

As for RAM and storage performance, get 16GB RAM and a 128GB SSD to use as system drive. Reuse your current HDD and install Steam to it and you should be fine...

Faster RAM will perhaps increase performance by ~1%, not worth bothering over...

my 2c...

 

[Termie]

A few additional ideas to add to the good advice above:

(1) Rage is a buggy game and texture pop-in is common, so that might not be related to your system.

(2) Skyrim does not perform well on your CPU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-vishera-review,3328-14.html. My bet is that you actually might be CPU-limited in that game.

(3) For your use case (lots of multithreading), I would absolutely go for a 3770k over the 3570k. Just apply the $100 saved on the motherboard to the CPU and you come out to the same budget you had originally.

(4) If building a new system, absolutely get an SSD, even if just for the OS. It makes a huge difference, maybe not on level loading (since you'll have a Steam HD), but for everything else.

 

[dpodblood]

Good advice here. As others have said there is no real need to upgrade your entire system as it's mostly your GPU holding you back. If you do decide to upgrade the whole thing though take your budget as a whole and not part by part. If you are paying $250 for a motherboard you're basically throwing money away for no reason. Intel changes their socket with every CPU generation so a motherboard isn't exactly an investment anymore.

Also as Termie pointed out Skyrim is extremely buggy (at least it was at launch) and had well known framerate issues (regardless of the system, and graphical settings used). Rage is also notorious for terrible texture pop-in especially on AMD cards. I wouldn't by any means recommend upgrading your PC just to increase performance in Rage. It's a pretty ho-hum game IMO anyway.

 

[squee116]

That's nonsense. You can mix and match as you please.

If you're really sold on updating to new standards, you may want to consider a newer case that would natively support USB 3.0, such as the Fractal Design Define R4 or Antec P280. They're also likely less noisy than your current Phantom if you care about sound levels.

I take it from your post above though, that you're not satisfied with the compiling/rendering performance of your current CPU. Have you looked at benchmarks that compare the CPU you have to Ivy Bridge and see what kind of performance gains you're looking at? Do you know whether your apps benefit from HyperThreading?

Okay, that's heartening. I've always like ATI video cards, but I can't say I've ever really tried Nvidia. The native support of USB 3.0 on the case is actually a feature I'd like to have. The case itself is actually really quiet unless I turn up all the fans to max, which I rarely need to.

Both Anandtech and Tomshardware ran tests for multi-threaded applications, single-threaded, and applications that switch between the two. For multi-threaded applications, the Vishera kicked butt, but for programs that relied on a mixture of the two and lightly threaded apps, Intel still pulled out ahead easily. I'm not sure if my programs specifically benefited from HyperThreading, but it appears that several of them preferred Intel.

 

[squee116]

I honestly don't see why you should do a complete platform upgrade. You would be better of with just a new GFX card. A Radeon HD7850/70 or Geforce 660/660ti will run Skyrim/Rage fine at 1080p. Its only when you get to 1440p they start to slow down a little...:hmm:

As for RAM and storage performance, get 16GB RAM and a 128GB SSD to use as system drive. Reuse your current HDD and install Steam to it and you should be fine...

Faster RAM will perhaps increase performance by ~1%, not worth bothering over...

my 2c...

Thanks for the recommendations. I've actually been thinking about the 7870 or switching over to Nvidia. Are there any big technical advantages one has over the other?

 

[squee116]

A few additional ideas to add to the good advice above:

(1) Rage is a buggy game and texture pop-in is common, so that might not be related to your system.

(2) Skyrim does not perform well on your CPU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-vishera-review,3328-14.html. My bet is that you actually might be CPU-limited in that game.

(3) For your use case (lots of multithreading), I would absolutely go for a 3770k over the 3570k. Just apply the $100 saved on the motherboard to the CPU and you come out to the same budget you had originally.

(4) If building a new system, absolutely get an SSD, even if just for the OS. It makes a huge difference, maybe not on level loading (since you'll have a Steam HD), but for everything else.

I've actually heard that Rage is buggy, but my friends who have the game on PC weren't having the spikes of lag happening in the weirdest places even without lots of action or movement. I thought it must have been my PC.

With all the recommendations, I'm likely to lower my aim on the motherboard and spring for the SSD. I don't know much about SSDs though, and taking recommendations for specific motherboards. Also, I've had some motherboards that can't have all slots filled for RAM, or RAM that was incompatible with motherboards. Is there a larger list than QVLs to help determine what will work?

 

[squee116]

Good advice here. As others have said there is no real need to upgrade your entire system as it's mostly your GPU holding you back. If you do decide to upgrade the whole thing though take your budget as a whole and not part by part. If you are paying $250 for a motherboard you're basically throwing money away for no reason. Intel changes their socket with every CPU generation so a motherboard isn't exactly an investment anymore.

Also as Termie pointed out Skyrim is extremely buggy (at least it was at launch) and had well known framerate issues (regardless of the system, and graphical settings used). Rage is also notorious for terrible texture pop-in especially on AMD cards. I wouldn't by any means recommend upgrading your PC just to increase performance in Rage. It's a pretty ho-hum game IMO anyway.

That was actually why I originally switched from Intel to AMD. The reusable socket is a great idea, which is why I shelled out for the Crosshair IV, but their processors just don't hack it right now against Intel for my needs. What boards do you recommend for overclocking needs?

 

[Termie]

That was actually why I originally switched from Intel to AMD. The reusable socket is a great idea, which is why I shelled out for the Crosshair IV, but their processors just don't hack it right now against Intel for my needs. What boards do you recommend for overclocking needs?

A couple of specific recommendations:

(1) motherboard - AsRock Extreme4 ($135 with free 8GB): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157293

If that deal expires, and you don't need Crossfire/SLI support, the AsRock Pro4 is also a good option.

(2) SSD - Samsung 830 128GB (~$100): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820147163

The price on this has been fluctuating a lot lately, to as low as $70. I wouldn't buy it for over $90 at this point.

 

[Zap]

And generally, when I build a PC, I like to know it'll be good for at least another two years.

:thumbsup: Someone with realistic expectations.
(just tired of seeing "I want to spend a zillion dollars, so the PC needs to last a decade")

I'm in agreement with others. You are putting WAY too much money into a motherboard. What does paying $300 for a motherboard give you that a $150 motherboard won't? Uh, maybe a second LAN and a fixed USB Bluetooth module? Maybe support for super duper extreme fry-your-CPU overclocking? Eight extra SATA ports? Better performance? Oh wait, it won't give you that. :hmm:

Get an SSD (check hot deals, prices change daily/hourly and you can save a bundle) and a 2x8GB RAM kit. No need for super fast stuff either.

I would actually do the CPU/mobo combo first with the SSD/OS, keeping your RAM and graphics card since those are easy-swap upgrades.

 

[dpodblood]

:thumbsup: Someone with realistic expectations.
(just tired of seeing "I want to spend a zillion dollars, so the PC needs to last a decade")

Yeah. This is why I've always aimed for the mid/high end PC, and not the extreme end of things. In a few years no matter how much you have invested in parts technology will still advance and you will end up needing to upgrade all over again.

 

[squee116]

A couple of specific recommendations:

(1) motherboard - AsRock Extreme4 ($135 with free 8GB): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157293

If that deal expires, and you don't need Crossfire/SLI support, the AsRock Pro4 is also a good option.

(2) SSD - Samsung 830 128GB (~$100): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820147163

The price on this has been fluctuating a lot lately, to as low as $70. I wouldn't buy it for over $90 at this point.

The last I had checked into it, support for Crossfire and SLI was not a guarantee on games. If it's come further, it's something I may upgrade to, but I generally prefer single card solutions for my wallet's sake. Thanks for the part recommendations. I'll keep them on my watch list.