Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: Howard
Tabb, can you prove that marijuana is bad?
Let me try another approach. Tabb, you seem to believe that harmful substances should be illegal, as evidenced by this question:Well, because government shouldn't be able to control what you willing do to your own body, especially if it doesn't cost the government any money. Besides, why is alcohol legal? Why is tobacco legal? Why are medicines with potentially harmful side effects legal? They're obviously bad for you, right? By your own logic, they should all be illegal.What is your solution exactly? Why should we legalize something that is bad for us?
I can prove that its bad for your health, thats been done before.
Howard: Well, I'm so glad you proved that it's bad for my health. :roll: Care to try again?
Actually, I will admit that smoking anything harms the body to a certain extent, but I don't believe that there have been any documented cases where somebody has been inflicted with a disease BECAUSE of cannabis. I asked you previously to show me at least one, but either you ignored it, or you couldn't.
Now as for the goverment being able to control you, in our lovely system we are barred from hurting other, including ourselves.
Howard: We are not barred from hurting each other; we are merely punished if we do so in a way that contravenes the laws. But what does this have to do with my point? That government knows best?
If you looked at a recent smoking study, you will find that it does cost society money.
Howard: If I looked at a recent smoking study? Wow, thanks for pointing me out to a few hundred of them. How about that study that suggests that smokers actually save society money by dying earlier? I'm not kidding, either.
Another way to put it: So? What's your point?
The only reason smoking tobacco and Alcholol are illegal is because they are so intergrated with our society.
Howard: I believe you meant that they're "legal" because they're so integrated with our society. What exactly do you mean by that? That they're widely used? So was asbestos, you know, and we got rid of that one pretty easily. But it wasn't so easy when we tried to outlaw alcohol, and I'm sure you know what happened there.
If Alcohol showed just was created today, it would be illegal.
English... do you speak it? Did you mean that if people figured out how to brew, ferment, and distill today, that it would be outlawed? We don't know for sure, but what I DO know is that people would drink alcohol-containing products anyway.
If we weren't stupid idiots back in the day, tobacco would be illegal.
Howard: Ah, two assumptions. How exactly were we stupid idiots back in the day? Because we didn't have studies (or enough conclusive ones, anyway) to show that tobacco was harmful? Again, see the last sentence of the previous point.
Medicienes that have certain benfits are legal, to a certian extent.
Now you're saying medicines "with certain benefits" are partially legal?
As for medical marjiuna, I personally myself have no problem with it.
Good. But why are so many people having trouble getting it?
How many doctors actually ask the terminally ill, did you smoke pot? Do you activilly smoke it up? No, they don't. I would assume someone intelligent as yourself would be able to answer a common-sense question as to why pot is bad for you.
Howard: More and more evasion, eh? Why can you not prove to me that there has been a case... don't feel like typing out the whole thing every time, so I'll just call it a case. Besides, how do you know that doctors don't ask the terminally ill if they smoke pot?
We are barred from hurting each other and ourselves.
I just explained this to you. We're punished, but there's nothing stopping us from doing it.
What do you think people are put in jail for or asylums?
Because they broke the laws, but that doesn't mean it stopped them from doing it, now does it?
Our goverment makes substances like pot for example illegal because it is harmfull to us.
Cyclic reasoning!
Why should we have another harmful drug on the market?
Because the advantages of doing so outweigh the disadvantages. Did you ignore EVERYTHING else I said above?
As for a society that saves money by people dying eariler, I have yet to see one.
I'll try to dig up that study. Besides, just because you haven't thought about it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
I speak English, you understood me.
Then proofread your text before you post, so that there's zero chance of confusion.
Those that promoted Tobacco used their money a leverage to make sure the goverment didnt find out it was actually extremely bad for you. This isn't a assumpition.
You're probably right. I won't argue this point further.
As for medical MJ I don't know why it isn't legal or if it is illegal for medical use. I have no problems with it being used for medical use.
I believe that it is legal in only some states. Here's something to ponder, though of its veracity I'm not certain:http://www.mpp.org/USA/The federal Drug Enforcement Administration is raiding, attacking, and harassing patients and providers, often destroying patients' medicine. The U.S. Department of Justice, meanwhile, is prosecuting individuals who cultivate marijuana solely for the purpose of relieving the pain of others.
In each of these federal cases, legitimate medical marijuana patients and providers have been forced to stand trial gagged by judges who wouldn't allow information about legitimate medical use to reach the jurors. Instead, these defendants have been presented as common drug criminals.
As I said, I'm not entirely sure of the truth of that, but I do know that many patients with a legitimate use for medical marijuana are having a difficult time obtaining and using it.
They don't ask, because they are more concerned with treating the patient.
Doctors are concerned with treating ALL patients, or at least according to the Hippocratic oath, they are. But they occasionally do ask patients if they smoke marijuana, and why should the terminally ill be any different?
Please vote in this poll and observe the results.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...8&threadid=1451691
If I am in jail or a Asylum how am I suppose to hurt someone? :|
Listen, buddy, why are you in jail in the first place? Because you hurt somebody, right? Well, how did a prison sentence stop you from committing that crime? ... It didn't! That's my whole point, and we should abandon this argument because it has nothing to do with marijuana anyway.
I never saw those statistics for this "Billion Dollar War on Pot", why should I believe its a failing war?
So do yourself a favor and Google "war on drugs". Be sure to read articles from both sides, and to disdain the propoganda (from both sides).
In my personal opinion, the best arguement for legalization/decriminialization is you can't OD.
What about all the other reasons I listed?
Another good idea would be to fine parents/guardians who sons/daughters that caught with the substance underage.
I wouldn't be opposed to this idea - IF you limit the responsibility of the parents until the children are of majority - but quite a few parents would scream and shout, IMO.
What if I was found gulity of pre-medditating murder and then they lock me up? Did I commit the crime?...
You just said it yourself. The crime was pre-meditating murder.
I asked you, not google.
Fine. I'll go look.
http://www.druglibrary.org/sch...brary/basicfax.htm#q15
Please take a look at points 15, 16, and 17. Note the percentage of people in for drug offenses. If the war's success is measured in how many people it can imprison, you could say it's working.
http://www.reason.com/sullum/020703.shtml
About medical marijuana.
http://www.reason.com/0203/ci.sr.one.shtml
More about medical marijuana.
http://reason.com/links/links080602.shtml
About DARE.
http://www.reason.com/rb/rb012903.shtml
About the historical relationship between violence and drug law.
http://www.reason.com/sullum/032803.shtml
More interesting stuff.
http://reason.com/links/links050302.shtml
Lies, and lies, and lies, and...
http://www.reason.com/0205/ci.js.helping.shtml
45-year sentences for people who grew 5 marijuana plants, and a 93-year sentence for a grower with arthritis and no evidence that he sold any of it.
http://reason.com/sullum/010201.shtml
This one really depresses me.
http://www.lindesmith.org/drugwar/
A plethora of reading for you.
http://www.serendipity.li/wod/floyd.html
"There have been more than one million arrests per year since 1988 for drug violations Over 70 percent of the arrests have been for possession of drugs, not sale or manufacture.""
Apparently, it was copied out of a magazine, and the cited works weren't copied along with it, so take it as you will.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/marijuan.htm
Please take the time to skim through all of this, or read it all, if you wish.
What reason? The war on pot isn't working? Thats a poor arguement, all that means to be is we should increase funding and put more effort into it.
You ever hear of the saying "throwing good money after bad"? Besides, if you actually read what I said, I never directly said that the war on pot wasn't working. You conveniently glossed over all the other points I brought up. Sure, we don't need to legalize THC-containing cannibus yet, but at the very least we could legalize non-psychoactive hemp.
I'd also like to fine parents who's childeren do poorley in school and get in trouble with the law. If they don't like it they can always give their kids to the state.
That's getting to be a bit far afield. Why would you want to do something like that?