Power Bill sinking hooks in me b/c of Tier thresholds of use

[Attic]

From my understanding average power use for homes is dependent on season and location, but 800-1000kwh is rough estimate of what's normal. 600kwh for a month if you really cut back and watch use. Average charge per kwh is $0.10

I'm in southern california. Trying to get an equilibrium on my charge structure from So Cal Edison. Home is all electric, no gas. Considering solar after literally sweating in the home through the last months, AC set to 83, to avoid high power bills, but being hit with 300-400 bills regardless.

My current Tier structure.
Tier 1 0-275kwh $0.12
Tier 2 275-360kwh $0.16
Tier 3 360-550kwh $0.27
Tier 4 555kwh+ $0.31

To me this looks absurd. 275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month and teir 2 is so short it really looks like a quick placeholder to ~$0.30kwh rates for everything in the home.

I think solar is the best way to go to avoid growing bills as Edison continues to "adjust" the Tier structure in a punitive manner lower and increase prices per kWh.

If ya follow your kwh used, anyone able to get under 600kwh for a home, all electric, no pool?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Have you looked into reducing power use besides the AC, like:

Are you using LED bulbs?

Do you leave lights off in rooms that aren't in use for long periods?

Do you avoid doing power-sucking things like bitcoin mining and distributed computing?

 

[Jimzz]

"275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month"

Where do you get that? What kind of fridge do you have?

 

[zinfamous]

I'm tier one this last billing period (<--NorCal) and my bill was ~$29.95.

Granted, I was away for about 1.5 weeks, but my fridge and freezer were certainly running during that time. I would suspect that you estimates are off, OP.

 

[Jeff7]

"275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month"

Where do you get that? What kind of fridge do you have?

I was wondering that as well.

Maybe it's a walk-in unit.


20.6 cubic foot unit. The Energy Guide thing says it'll use 410kWh. Per year.

 

[boomerang]

I'm paying approximately half the rate you're paying. Tiering is markedly different too. My AC is on a separate meter and from June through October I get a lower rate. I get that because the electric company can curtail power to it during times of high usage.

Copy and paste from a PDF so the formatting is not ideal.

DTE Electric Company Residential Electric Service
Current Charges
Power Supply Charges:
Power Supply Energy 544 KWH @ 0.06912 37.60
5 KWH @ 0.08257 0.41
Renewable Energy Plan Surchg 3.00
Other Power Supply Surcharges* 3.87
Delivery Charges:
Service Charge 6.00
Distribution 549 KWH @ 0.05003 27.47
Energy Optimization 549 KWH @ 0.002711 1.49​

VHWF Credit

&#8722;1.59

Other Delivery Surcharges** 5.21
Residential Michigan Sales Tax 3.34
​

​

Total DTE Electric Company Current Charges 86.80
Current Billing Information
Service Period Jul 12, 2013 - Aug 13, 2013
Days Billed 32
Meter Number ​

​

4382981 09

​

​

Meter Reading 50736 Actual - 51285 Actual
KWH Used 549
Your next scheduled meter read date is on or
around SEP 12, 2013
Usage History - Average per day
Current
Month
Last
Month
Year
Ago
KWH Usage 17.2 17.8 18.2
Change -3% -5%
DTE Electric Company Interruptible Heating / Cooling Service
Current Charges
Power Supply Charges:
Power Supply Energy 140 KWH @ 0.05989 8.38
Other Power Supply Surcharges* 0.98
Delivery Charges:
Service Charge June - October 1.95
Distribution 140 KWH @ 0.05379 7.53
Energy Optimization 140 KWH @ 0.002711 0.38
Other Delivery Surcharges** 1.41
Residential Michigan Sales Tax 0.82
Total DTE Electric Company Current Charges 21.45
Current Billing Information
Service Period Jul 12, 2013 - Aug 13, 2013
Days Billed 32
Meter Number ​

​

5280461 09

​

​

Meter Reading 23448 Actual - 23588 Actual
KWH Used 140
Your next scheduled meter read date is on or
around SEP 12, 2013
Usage History - Average per day
Current
Month
Last
Month
Year
Ago
KWH Usage 4.4 4.6 7.2
Change -4% -38%
Cents For Energy
Current Charges
Cents For Energy Contribution 0.75
Total Current Charges 0.75
Service Period Aug 13
Total Current Charges 109.00​

*Other Power Supply Surcharges include costs associated with Power Supply

​

 

[Meghan54]

275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month

BS.

Well, maybe if you're trying to power a 50 year old pos, but according to some testing I've seen, running a fairly modern fridge made in the last 10 years shouldn't use much more than 70-80kW per month. For instance, Efficiency Vermont has a good list of what elec. use is by appliance, etc. and it's darned informative.

http://www.efficiencyvermont.com/fo...rators/general_info/electric_usage_chart.aspx

 

[Murloc]

So you're heating the water electrically too?

That sounds very retarded, install solar collectors to heat up the boiler water, in california it should work most of the year if it's like in the movies.

 

[T9D]

California is such an insane rip off. So glad it's cheaper where I'm at and near hydro electric.

My bills $51 this month and I used 762 KWh. I just lock myself in one room and keep the AC on in that room only. It's been running probably 20 hours a day. I do the same in the winter. Only like a 100 heating bill keeping the heat on in just one room 24/7. Yeah it's not ideal but no reason wasting tons of energy and money if i'm mostly in one room anyway. Save a lot of money.

 

[Attic]

BS.

Well, maybe if you're trying to power a 50 year old pos, but according to some testing I've seen, running a fairly modern fridge made in the last 10 years shouldn't use much more than 70-80kW per month. For instance, Efficiency Vermont has a good list of what elec. use is by appliance, etc. and it's darned informative.

http://www.efficiencyvermont.com/for...age_chart.aspx

Thanks for link.

I'm using this website to get rough idea of energy costs. For my fridge power draw I was wrong, I ran it's wattage like a bulb instead of through a guide. It's closer to 100kwh a month.

Appliance Energy Calculator

Overall goal is to get below 600kwh, misread on the fridge makes that possible if I tackle hot water heater and don't run AC. House is just energy ineffiecent overall from move in. Using CF's in lamps, need to hit all the bathroom and in place lighting with different bulbs, but mainly I just unscrew half or more of the bulbs in the fixtures that went ape shit with bulb usage and narc around the house turning shit off.

The fridge linked above at 410kWh used per year breaks down to a very small power draw for it's size, I expect that's with the unit being opened close to never to actually draw out food/drink.

The hot water heater is a big culprit and needs to go. It's an 80 gallon and stupid inefficient, was here when I got here. Was considering getting a hybrid unit that based on specs will lower the energy consumed for heating water by 2/3'rds. The current water heater has a sticker that says it on average uses 5200kwh a year, agree dumb and possibly biggest culprit. The home isn't setup for gas. Not sure how expensive it would be to install a tank and run whatever hardware is needed.


Thanks for the detail there Boomerang. My power company has similar program for AC, haven't considered it till now, have been using more fans.

 

[Attic]

California is such an insane rip off. So glad it's cheaper where I'm at and near hydro electric.

My bills $51 this month and I used 762 KWh. I just lock myself in one room and keep the AC on in that room only. It's been running probably 20 hours a day. I do the same in the winter. Only like a 100 heating bill keeping the heat on in just one room 24/7. Yeah it's not ideal but no reason wasting tons of energy and money if i'm mostly in one room anyway. Save a lot of money.

Yea, wow, GD.

For 762KWh in my location i'd be at ~$200 after the bill is said and done. SCE has a 4.5% tax on energy charges amongst the other hors d'oeuvre that are sprinkled about the bill.

 

[jagec]

My current Tier structure.
Tier 1 0-275kwh $0.12
Tier 2 275-360kwh $0.16
Tier 3 360-550kwh $0.27
Tier 4 555kwh+ $0.31


If ya follow your kwh used, anyone able to get under 600kwh for a home, all electric, no pool?

Those are, indeed, ridiculously high rates.

I have a gas stove and furnace, but electric hot water and dryer (and AC of course). I use about 6000 kWh a year, but it's really only about 350 kWh/month "base" plus AC costs in the summer (which means that either July or August will top 1000 kWh). I keep the AC on 78-79 (it's humid in Baltimore) and heat to 65.

I can give you more info on solar if you're interested, but it's not quite the gravy-train that it used to be. Most of the time you're better off spending the money on insulation and more efficient heat pumps (fridge, AC, hybrid water heater)

 

[marvdmartian]

I think you need to take a serious look at what's eating up your electric bill, and fix those problems, before you turn to solar, or blame the electric company (which is ripping you off for electricity.....but hey, what did you expect, living in Commie-fornia??).

I'm in Texas. Couple weeks ago, hitting 100+ degree days pretty much every day. Living in an 1800 square foot house that was built in 1971, and still has single pane windows and the original fiberglas insulation in the walls and attic.

I run an 80% efficient HVAC system, and I set my thermostat to 78 degrees, and used up 371 Kilowatt hours in that week, running the fridge, air conditioning, computers, and a shitload of "vampire" loads.

If you're living in a residence that can make all those claims, and uses more power than I'm using, then you've got something WRONG, and need to look at your power loads. How old is your HVAC system, and what efficiency rating does it have? How often are you running your oven during the hottest part of the day? How long of showers do you take, and how efficient is your water heater? How many "vampire" loads do you have running 24/7? All these are questions you need to answer, FIRST.

I can tell you that when I lived in an old rental house, built in the 60's, with crap for insulation in the walls and huge single-paned windows, I spent more per month than I do here, and this house is twice the square footage! I also have a southern exposure, versus a western exposure, so I'm not getting slammed with late afternoon Texas solar heating.

Trust me, if you're not running high efficiency HVAC and water heating systems, it's time to invest your money in those, as they'll be your highest electrical loads during the summertime. Oh, and talk to your idiot elected officials about deregulating the electric industry, so you actually have some choices, and some competition, for electricity! They did it in Texas, and it has saved people TONS of money! TXU's rates were typically 12 to 15 cents per kilowatt hour, I currently pay 9 cents (locked in for 2 years), and I've seen short term deals where you can pay less than 8 cents! Sure beats the wallet whipping you're faced with!!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wow that is high rates... here's my usage in the past year:



I do have servers and stuff that run 24/7 so that adds to the load. About 350w or so.

Interestingly I used more in winter than in summer. Figured it would have been the opposite.

 

[Chapbass]

I think you need to take a serious look at what's eating up your electric bill, and fix those problems, before you turn to solar, or blame the electric company (which is ripping you off for electricity.....but hey, what did you expect, living in Commie-fornia??).

I'm in Texas. Couple weeks ago, hitting 100+ degree days pretty much every day. Living in an 1800 square foot house that was built in 1971, and still has single pane windows and the original fiberglas insulation in the walls and attic.

I run an 80% efficient HVAC system, and I set my thermostat to 78 degrees, and used up 371 Kilowatt hours in that week, running the fridge, air conditioning, computers, and a shitload of "vampire" loads.

If you're living in a residence that can make all those claims, and uses more power than I'm using, then you've got something WRONG, and need to look at your power loads. How old is your HVAC system, and what efficiency rating does it have? How often are you running your oven during the hottest part of the day? How long of showers do you take, and how efficient is your water heater? How many "vampire" loads do you have running 24/7? All these are questions you need to answer, FIRST.

I can tell you that when I lived in an old rental house, built in the 60's, with crap for insulation in the walls and huge single-paned windows, I spent more per month than I do here, and this house is twice the square footage! I also have a southern exposure, versus a western exposure, so I'm not getting slammed with late afternoon Texas solar heating.

Trust me, if you're not running high efficiency HVAC and water heating systems, it's time to invest your money in those, as they'll be your highest electrical loads during the summertime. Oh, and talk to your idiot elected officials about deregulating the electric industry, so you actually have some choices, and some competition, for electricity! They did it in Texas, and it has saved people TONS of money! TXU's rates were typically 12 to 15 cents per kilowatt hour, I currently pay 9 cents (locked in for 2 years), and I've seen short term deals where you can pay less than 8 cents! Sure beats the wallet whipping you're faced with!!

This is totally true. I'm renting a townhouse right now, 3bed 2.5bath, 2 car garage. Vaulted ceilings aren't helping me at all, but I just looked at my recent bill, I'm at 1600kwh for the month. Granted, I have a couple machines acting as servers for my lab, but other than that there isn't a huge amount of stuff going on. But my landlord just installed a massive water heater, and these windows are absolutely awful at insulation (as is the rest of the house)....

Bleh, can't wait to move.

 

[Chapbass]

Wow that is high rates... here's my usage in the past year:



I do have servers and stuff that run 24/7 so that adds to the load. About 350w or so.

Interestingly I used more in winter than in summer. Figured it would have been the opposite.

Thats because your summer is still mild (compared to a place like Texas or Arizona), you're in canada. Winter, on the other hand, is pretty damn cold.

 

[dud]

From my understanding average power use for homes is dependent on season and location, but 800-1000kwh is rough estimate of what's normal. 600kwh for a month if you really cut back and watch use. Average charge per kwh is $0.10

I'm in southern california. Trying to get an equilibrium on my charge structure from So Cal Edison. Home is all electric, no gas. Considering solar after literally sweating in the home through the last months, AC set to 83, to avoid high power bills, but being hit with 300-400 bills regardless.

My current Tier structure.
Tier 1 0-275kwh $0.12
Tier 2 275-360kwh $0.16
Tier 3 360-550kwh $0.27
Tier 4 555kwh+ $0.31

To me this looks absurd. 275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month and teir 2 is so short it really looks like a quick placeholder to ~$0.30kwh rates for everything in the home.

I think solar is the best way to go to avoid growing bills as Edison continues to "adjust" the Tier structure in a punitive manner lower and increase prices per kWh.

If ya follow your kwh used, anyone able to get under 600kwh for a home, all electric, no pool?

So, without reading through the rest of the thread ... what were your last three (3) power bills OP?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Thats because your summer is still mild (compared to a place like Texas or Arizona), you're in canada. Winter, on the other hand, is pretty damn cold.

I heat with gas though. Guess the furnace blower must use a decent amount of power to make a difference. Though I do run the blower in summer too a bit to circulate air, but it does not get much mileage. I do have a 1 ton AC unit I tend to leave on all day, which is why I figured it would be much higher. And when it's on, it's on at full tilt. I just crank it down as low as it goes. I can sometimes get it to be like 19C in here.

 

[jagec]

Oh, and talk to your idiot elected officials about deregulating the electric industry, so you actually have some choices, and some competition, for electricity! They did it in Texas, and it has saved people TONS of money!

That's not true (source). Deregulation of the airlines saved money, but deregulation of power (which they did in California, by the way...remember Enron?) hasn't helped the consumer in most states.

 

[rockyct]

Oh, and talk to your idiot elected officials about deregulating the electric industry, so you actually have some choices, and some competition, for electricity! They did it in Texas, and it has saved people TONS of money!

...we fucking did that in California and it created the mess we're in right now. Remember the whole recall business some years back that resulted in Arnold becoming our governor...that was because Gray Davis got the backlash from the previous governor (Pete Wilson) deregulating the power companies.

 

[marvdmartian]

...we fucking did that in California and it created the mess we're in right now. Remember the whole recall business some years back that resulted in Arnold becoming our governor...that was because Gray Davis got the backlash from the previous governor (Pete Wilson) deregulating the power companies.

Hey, I can't help it, if your politicians did it WRONG!!

Seriously, I loved living in California.....except for the taxes.....and the politics....and the taxes......did I mention the taxes??

 

[CPA]

hmmm...here in Texas, my rates are lower the more I use. If I use less than 1000kw then the rate is higher than if I use more than 1000kw. It's usually tiered 3 ways: <1000, <2000, 2000+

 

[CPA]

That's not true (source). Deregulation of the airlines saved money, but deregulation of power (which they did in California, by the way...remember Enron?) hasn't helped the consumer in most states.

Interesting that they show the average rate well over $.11, so I have to assume they are using 2 year locked in rates, because I haven't paid over $.10 (and only paid over $.09 just recently) in years. People are stupid to lock in on a 2 year rate. They should be shopping 3 to 6 month rates only.

 

[tortillasoup]

To me this looks absurd. 275kwh isn't enough to run a typical refrigerator/freezer for a month and teir 2 is so short it really looks like a quick placeholder to ~$0.30kwh rates for everything in the home.

275kwh isn't enough to run a refrigerator/freeezer for an entire month? Are you kidding me? There are refrigerators that use 350-450kwh per YEAR and they're not that expensive either! Yes 20cu. ft+ models that use around 350-450kwh per year in electricity. That means only 37kwh per month for a 450kwh per year refrigerator. I know people who own ELECTRIC water heaters and have electric bills in the $35 range. Having a low electric bill is quite easy if you get rid of vampire power electronics, don't have a central a/c (central a/c apparently has high vampire loads), use energy efficient lighting and just aren't wasteful... Did I mention I live in California with PG&E and the same tiered electric rates as you do OP?

 

[Murloc]

I do have a 1 ton AC unit I tend to leave on all day, which is why I figured it would be much higher. And when it's on, it's on at full tilt. I just crank it down as low as it goes. I can sometimes get it to be like 19C in here.

now that's a waste of money and fossil fuels.