Power Problems?

[grimdeath]

Here's my system:

AMD X2 4200 Socket 939
EVGA SLI Edition nforce 4 mobo (133-k8-nf41-ax)
EVGA 8800gt superclocked (was 7800gt)
2x 1gb G.Skill Ram DDR 400 PC 3200 (was 4x 512 mixed brands, same types)
80gb WD Caviar IDE HD
300gb Seagate Sata HD
Creative Audigy 2zs Gamer
Lite On Dual Layer DVD-RW Drive

FSP Group 450w PSU

Ok let me explain my situation...a few weeks back I order a new 8800gt to replace my 7800gt. The very day I got it in, before I had even gotten a chance to crack my case I received a major problem to my mobo....my system would power on but no video...after trying everything under the sun EVGA tech support helped me figure it out was the mobo because the LCD for error messages on it was not cycling thru numbers but rather immediatly going to FF (fully functional) so there was definatly a problem. RMA'd it, wait two weeks...

Two weeks later I receive my new board, rebuilt my system exactly as it was with 7800gt and get everything working perfectly again. Gave it a day to make sure it was stable and installed my new 8800gt. All was wonderful for 4-5 days, played crysis on high and used the heck out of the system, no freezes, errors or anything wrong.

Finally I decided to turn my pc on one day to play some games, everything was fine, started loading the game, then bam...lose video, error code on the mobo of C1. Repeated attempts produce a computer that starts, but no video and C1 error on the board over and over. Called up EVGA and they said it was a ram issue. I tried every crazy combonation of ram possible, removed some, tried my 2 matching OCZ platinum ram, on and on to no avail. The only way my system will boot is with 1x 512 stick, any of them.

Called up EVGA again, tell them the story, they recommend setting the ram timings manually, doesnt work. Finally I decide to purchase some new ram, 2x 1gb g.skill ram on sunday. Got it in today, tried popping it in 1 and 3 slot and starting up...no video, C1 error. Try moving to slot 1 and 2, boots up runs great but no dual channel. Called EVGA again today, talk for a while, try setting the new timings manually...I find out that the settings arent exactly listed in the bios settings for 3-4-4-8 like it recommends....the "3" and "8" are not listed so EVGA tech recommends using the auto instead. Try 1 and 3 slot as suppose to work for dual channel and it works....boots all the way into windows then pow...video out C1 error. Explained to the tech and he has me try a few more changes, no help.

Finally the tech recommends checking my power supply..I look it up in newegg to make sure I get the proper details which you can read if you click the link in my specs. He says my system will need a minimum of 400w, recommended 500w to run. My psu is 450w so thats ok...he asks me the ampage on my 12v rails and I check...cannot really figure out which setting is which so I tell him its this under output:
+3.3V@30A, +5V@28A, +12V1@14A, +12V2@13A, -12V@0.5A, +5VSB@2A

He says the 14a and 13a are my ampage and recommends I get a new psu with a 12v rail of at least 22amps....looking all over newegg none of the psu I see at the 400-500w range even come close to that if I am reading the amp reading correctly there.

So finally to the point....what do you guys recommend? Is there even a psu that will work with my system like this? I know psu's are important thats why I bought this specific one when I got my 7800gt but I honestly cannot afford to buy ANOTHER computer part this week....im running single channel with slots 1 and 2 of my new ram and it seems "ok" but ive not tried any games yet....what sort of performance hit am I looking at not running dual channel? Other thoughts and observations are great too! I run a side business form home doing web design so getting a working workstation is really critical to me...plus that darn copy of crysis keeps looking at me

(sorry for such a long post)

 

[PurdueRy]

Your power supply has 28A on the 12V rail. Does your computer run after the C1 error if you put your old video card back in? Have you updated your motherboard bios?

 

[grimdeath]

ahh, hmm i guess I was looking at the wrong place then on the amps, odd. do you add the two together? Perhaps I should call EVGA back then and tell em the psu meets their marks.

My motherboard is running the newest bios, I have not put the old videocard back in since I put the 8800gt in. The EVGA tech said the error refered to the ram though he didnt say specifically what the error meant (its one not in the manual) so I had been more concerned with the ram and power supply then the videocard.

sorry for the delayed responce, I was playing crysis...yes it does run but not quite as nice as those few days before the first error after installing the 8800gt. it seems a bit more jerky and less smooth.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: grimdeath
ahh, hmm i guess I was looking at the wrong place then on the amps, odd. do you add the two together? Perhaps I should call EVGA back then and tell em the psu meets their marks.

My motherboard is running the newest bios, I have not put the old videocard back in since I put the 8800gt in. The EVGA tech said the error refered to the ram though he didnt say specifically what the error meant (its one not in the manual) so I had been more concerned with the ram and power supply then the videocard.

sorry for the delayed responce, I was playing crysis...yes it does run but not quite as nice as those few days before the first error after installing the 8800gt. it seems a bit more jerky and less smooth.

Look at the number that encompassed both 12V lines, then divide that power by 12. You'll have your total 12V current.

Try reinstalling the old videocard. If it boots, it's probably not ram.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: grimdeath

Finally the tech recommends checking my power supply..I look it up in newegg to make sure I get the proper details which you can read if you click the link in my specs. He says my system will need a minimum of 400w, recommended 500w to run. My psu is 450w so thats ok...he asks me the ampage on my 12v rails and I check...cannot really figure out which setting is which so I tell him its this under output:
+3.3V@30A, +5V@28A, +12V1@14A, +12V2@13A, -12V@0.5A, +5VSB@2A

Good to know that Evga techs don't understand PSU basics. Tell them to come here and read the FAQ's.

To the point... Perdue is correct. You cited the +12V split (+12V1 and +12V2) but the actual over all +12V capability is located just below these two numbers on the label.

If you were exceeding the PSU's capability, the PSU would shut off. Not not post with a C1 error or black-out during game with C1 error.

That's not to say that the PSU isn't GOING BAD. The voltages could be just below spec and dropping out under load. To check this, you're going to want a multi-meter plugged into a Molex while you're running the machine. +11.4 is bad, although I don't like anything under +11.6.

http://jongerow.com/BFGPower/troubleshooting.html

This could also be a board or graphics card problem.

 

[grimdeath]

man im really trying to avoid being without my motherboard another week or two. I will pop in the old video card but how is that going to point at the ram being ok or not? Just because it uses less power meaning the problem should still exist? not doubting you guys (thanks for helping!) im just missing the logic I guess the fact you guys say the psu should be capable is already music to my ears (or well eyes?! )

the only other weird issue id like to bring attention to was that the tech seemed totally worthless at helping me with my ram timings in the bios...he kept telling me the timings were in the proper order in the bios 3-4-4-8 but I swear I had looked them up in the past and they were out of order. the item for "3" and for "8" were not choices in the preset amounts so I had to use "auto" to make it work. Its a phoenix bios though I do not know specifics. I can grab a picture at lunch maybe (about 3 hours from now). id just like to have proper confirmation that I wasn't told wrong. the main issue I have is that things are named a bit differently then most websites list them when discussing ram timings. He also didn't know where the ram voltage setting was, I found it in the power overclocking section and I was able to adjust the voltage for the ram though to 2.55v (recommended 2.50 - 2.60). Im not sure the difference between 1T and 2T settings either, though I thought I had heard that the board required 4 sticks of ram to run 2T.

the main reason I draw attention towards the ram was that when I ran my OCZ ram, it would never run properly until I set the ram timings manually, the other presets of "automatic, optimized, and standard" always caused problems....this is part of the reason I went with g.skill instead this time...try something different.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: grimdeath
man im really trying to avoid being without my motherboard another week or two. I will pop in the old video card but how is that going to point at the ram being ok or not? Just because it uses less power meaning the problem should still exist? not doubting you guys (thanks for helping!) im just missing the logic I guess the fact you guys say the psu should be capable is already music to my ears (or well eyes?! )

the only other weird issue id like to bring attention to was that the tech seemed totally worthless at helping me with my ram timings in the bios...he kept telling me the timings were in the proper order in the bios 3-4-4-8 but I swear I had looked them up in the past and they were out of order. the item for "3" and for "8" were not choices in the preset amounts so I had to use "auto" to make it work. Its a phoenix bios though I do not know specifics. I can grab a picture at lunch maybe (about 3 hours from now). id just like to have proper confirmation that I wasn't told wrong. the main issue I have is that things are named a bit differently then most websites list them when discussing ram timings. He also didn't know where the ram voltage setting was, I found it in the power overclocking section and I was able to adjust the voltage for the ram though to 2.55v (recommended 2.50 - 2.60). Im not sure the difference between 1T and 2T settings either, though I thought I had heard that the board required 4 sticks of ram to run 2T.

the main reason I draw attention towards the ram was that when I ran my OCZ ram, it would never run properly until I set the ram timings manually, the other presets of "automatic, optimized, and standard" always caused problems....this is part of the reason I went with g.skill instead this time...try something different.

Because if it boots up with the old card and the ram hasn't changed the problem isn't the ram.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Exactly. Nothing's changed with the RAM.

Probably isn't the board either unless someone can shine some light on some sort of compat issue between an 8800 GT and an nforce 4 that I haven't heard of (which I doubt since the rig we use to test card samples here at BFG is an nforce 4 board and it's had several 8800 GT cards in it w/o issue).

Probably just a bad graphics card.

 

[joramhh]

Ahh, fortuituous that this topic came up because I signed up to this forum to ask almost the exact same question!

So my CM Extreme 550 which has 16A listed under both +12V entries has more than enough than the recommended 18A for my board and 26A for my video card (8800 GTS)? Or should I be concerned that the sum of those two still exceeds the amperage on my power supply?

I think one of your stickies should be around total amperage. I looked through them and didn't really see it but I might just have missed it since I was rushing.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Actually, it's pointed out here to folks quite often that when a graphics card company tells you that you need "26A for your video card" that they're talking about 26A for your ENTIRE SYSTEM and not just your video card. So certainly you wouldn't add the two (18A + 26A!!!)

 

[grimdeath]

thanks PurdueRy, I was posting only a few minutes after waking up this morning so I obviously wasnt actually "awake" yet makes much more sense now that I am heh.

a bad graphics card I could live with, bought it on newegg and already registered it on EVGA's site. I have my 7800gt up on the for sale/trade forum so I might go take that down for the time being to get me by if I need to replace it.

im going out of town tomorrow for a few days so I may be hard pressed to get time to do this today, I will try to and report back what I find.

 

[joramhh]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Actually, it's pointed out here to folks quite often that when a graphics card company tells you that you need "26A for your video card" that they're talking about 26A for your ENTIRE SYSTEM and not just your video card. So certainly you wouldn't add the two (18A + 26A!!!)

Ahh, thank you for the confirmation!

 

[grimdeath]

sorry for the delay, i went out of town and then got busy with work and its been crazy. ok here's my update:

I had not changed out the videocard as requested and been winging it with my 8800gt and 1x 1gb ram instead of my full 2gb. my system ran, just not as fast...in the past 3 days I started having more problems, blue screens and c1 errors trying to start and it was taking like 10 times to get it to actually post and startup(this is the first time its happened with only 1 stick of ram). it seems like things are getting slowly worst i guess to sum it up.

I finally took the time this evening and uninstalled the 8800gt, reinstalled my old 7800gt with 1 gb ram....got that all working no problem, no problem at start, seemed all good, figured I was on the right track and this was going to show it was just a problem with the video card but when I tried to put the second stick of ram in and try at 2gb I was first met with a new error instead of starting (code 25, not listed in the manual). I powered off with the case button, went back to one stick...worked...reset my ram timings back to the "auto" setting from the manual listed on the sticks, put the 2nd back in (whew this takes a lot to explain)...and what am I met with? THE C1 ERROR! yay!

I guess this means that the videocards are ok, its a problem other then those....so what do you guys figure I do next? is it my replacement mobo from a couple weeks ago thats not working properly? should I look into RMA'ing it or trying to pinpoint if another component is to blame? Im so wore out dealing with these problems and just want my baby back please share your words of wisdom guys!

 

[PurdueRy]

If you can boot with one stick of ram, do a BIOS update.

Does the board boot with the other stick of ram alone in the computer?

Try clearing CMOS before booting with two sticks of ram.

 

[grimdeath]

i am running the newest bios (new meaning from 2006). every combonation of ram doesnt work besides one stick at a time, any single stick works great. ill try clearing the cmos again but the only setting I changed from default was floppy seek off and the ram timings to manual before changing back to auto today. I can change the ram settings to optomized or standard as well. I will clear the cmos tommorow though first thing, been a long day enough for tonight

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Actually, it's pointed out here to folks quite often that when a graphics card company tells you that you need "26A for your video card" that they're talking about 26A for your ENTIRE SYSTEM and not just your video card. So certainly you wouldn't add the two (18A + 26A!!!)

You mean my system with a single GPU is not going to pull 528w on the 12v?

 

[grimdeath]

ok, finally got to clear the cmos, I am still running the older 7800gt that I went back to. I tried reseting with the jumper and then removing the battery and only turned off floppy seek and toggled the evga logo off that covers the post info. I am now getting more C1 errors, it is again taking multiple tries to actually get past them only to have the bios freeze once and then I gave up cause its not getting past the error after multiple tries again.... im about to my wits end here lol

what next guys?...if it will help I can take pictures of my various bios screens for you guys if you want to recommend some setting maybe? (assuming I can get it to come on again)

 

[grimdeath]

I have decided to get with EVGA this week and send my motherboard back, I just do not know what else to do here. The last time I talked to them they informed me they no longer make AMD boards and their stock of these boards was pretty much gone so I may end up with another brand or higher end AMD board if they still have any left. I think it would almost be worth it to sell my new board I get in and buy another brand if any similar are still around (asus brand or something).

If anyone else has any last minute tests or suggestions id love to hear em now. Thanks for all the help so far otherwise.