power supply recommendations

csflipfreakz

Member
Mar 10, 2005
39
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0
hi guys, i was switching my case to my new thermaltake skull vm3000a case and i had to buy a power supply since it didn't come with any...i bought a inhouse 500w power supply and installed it and now i cant overclock...it keeps saying cpu failed overclocking...i am using asus a8n-sli deluxe...before i switched my case i was using a raidmax case with 420w psu and it was overclocking great at 300fsb, 8x multi, and 3x htt...im guessing it might also have to do with more fans and a temperature module in the 5.25 bay that it comes with...do you guys think 2 more fans and 1 temperature module and a EL inverter switch would cause that??
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Probably a weak 12v rail or possibly just quality...

I would look at a modstream or powerstream 520 from OCZ or even a 480+ enenrmax....Many will promote Antecs...I dont like them for Ocing...That is IMO....
 

Cook1

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2004
6,315
0
86
I just got a Forton Blue Storm 500W PSU, it's quiet, more then enough power and has looks to match!
 

csflipfreakz

Member
Mar 10, 2005
39
0
0
i saw some reviews towards a antec truepower 550...is that good enough for oc'in?? i dont get why my 500w psu sucks while the generic 420w psu that came with my old case worked better...very, very strange...
 

dklingen

Member
Sep 24, 2004
127
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0
Can somebody show me a reference (hyperlink) where it "PROVES" why you have to have an expensive power supply? I have three systems with basic power supplies (350W-400W) and have never had a problem. I think this whole PS thing is questionable (voltages are voltages and if they stay within specified tolerences under your computer load - why waste the money?).
 

o1die

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
4,785
0
71
I agree. Power supplies tend to be oversold as solutions to overclocking limits. I've found that either a cpu will overclock well or it won't. Power supplies simply add to stability, but won't make some cpus overclock any higher.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
Originally posted by: dklingen
Can somebody show me a reference (hyperlink) where it "PROVES" why you have to have an expensive power supply? I have three systems with basic power supplies (350W-400W) and have never had a problem. I think this whole PS thing is questionable (voltages are voltages and if they stay within specified tolerences under your computer load - why waste the money?).

Problem is, those voltages DON'T stay within tolerances when you put a load onto a cheap PSU. We OCers care because it's critical to keep the voltage supplied to the CPU's power regulators as steady as possible... a dip in PSU rail voltage is likely to crash our box.

Also... wattage means squat. Gotta look at the rail amperage, esp. the +12V. Most cheap 350-400W PSUs offer around 18A on the 12V rail, and they often get wobbly when you start putting a load on them. Compare a good 350W PSU like this one to the generic PSUs by looking at the rails.
 

DJSfurry

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
228
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0
thats true. i used to have a 350w generic psu with 14A on the 12V i overclocked my chip and got 2.46 ghz. the 12 the 5 and the 3V lines were really wobbly, but never did my computer crash. i then upgraded to the PSU in my sig with 33A on the 12V line and at this same speed the rails are completely stable at 12.08 volts. however i couldent oc my proc anyfurther. so. really peace of mind
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Its all about peace of mind.....It is also why we have to see so many noobs "my system has a probelm" or "why cant I oc so far" threads...

Its make a difference ppl and if dont think so then fine...

I recommend most of you dont OC your systems...cause I dont want to hear the whinning and waste my time helping you....
 

ironique

Senior member
May 16, 2002
498
0
76
Originally posted by: Painman

Also... wattage means squat. Gotta look at the rail amperage, esp. the +12V. Most cheap 350-400W PSUs offer around 18A on the 12V rail, and they often get wobbly when you start putting a load on them.....

Ditto. Had a generic 400W PSU that would crash my system at stock speeds! I replaced this with a good quality 350W with a 30A +12V rail, OC's stably now.:thumbsup:
 

Doctorweir

Golden Member
Sep 20, 2000
1,689
0
0
<= Also votes for quality PSUs...always use Enermax, never let me down
Currently the 485W Noisetaker...oversize for the current rig, but hey...futureproof lovin it...period
 

KF

Golden Member
Dec 3, 1999
1,371
0
0
Csflipfreakz, in the interests of science, I request that you try your old supply in the new case to see if it helps. If it does, you've found your answer. If doesn't, you should look at another solution. Please report back.

I personally don't believe in huge PS's being the solution to some basic problem. Any PS maker may accidently assemble some defective PSs, and I imagine that is the reason why changing PS's fixes problems in the cases where it does. Normal people just don't have the capability to check if there are millisecond glitches on the power rails, so how would they know. A millisecond is huge amount of time to a gigahertz CPU.

The specs on cheapo, oddball brand PSs are probably a pack of lies, and IAC the QC has to be non-existent to keep selling price down.

The question though is if the mobo re-regulation from the PS down to 1.5V can cope with what it is given. In theory, considerable variations in input should make no difference in output. The output voltages are generated by switching the currents in the inductors- those donut shapes with wire wrapped around them. Any voltage can be generated that way by changing the rate of change of current in the inductor. There is a regulator chip that senses the output voltage and, by using feedback, adjusts the rate so the voltage comes out right.

I don't know for sure which PS rail is used to generate the CPU voltage, or if it is just one, but generally people mention 12 V. 12V at 15A is 180 watts. At 80% efficiency, the onboard regulators can supply 144 watts to the CPU. Seems like plenty for a 67 watt max CPU. True, a hard drive may take 10 watts out of the 144, and a couple of fans maybe 5. If you overvolt 15% (from 1.4 to 1.61V) the power is multiplied by 1.32, for 89 W. You would expect an HONESTLY RATED, non-defective PS to do OK OCing. That's why I am skeptical about the requirement for a super-duper PS. If the 12V rail supplies 18A, that gives you another 29 watt cushion.

Admittedly, asking PS makers to rate their product honestly is asking a lot, considering they can sell it for more the higher they rate it.

I don't doubt that people have PS problems, though, just like they have problems with everything. And maybe there is some mysterious property of power supplies that I am unaware of, but until somebody explains it, I remain a skeptic.
 

csflipfreakz

Member
Mar 10, 2005
39
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0
ok sori about the late response...i did speak with asus tech support and they claim it could be a inground issue since it all started happening after i replaced my case/psu...my old case came with red washer to isolate contact with the case but my new case is "screwless" design and the standoffs snap right into the hole of the mobo so you cant put red washers to prevent contact...he suggested i put electrical tape over the standoffs and place the mobo on top...i will try his method tonight and see if all goes well since this will take about two hours to take everything apart and put back together...i didn't think it was the psu since all the voltages on my new 500w psu exceed in amperes especially the +12v that everyone keeps talking about...my old psu had +12v 13A while my new psu 500w +12v is 28A...
 

dklingen

Member
Sep 24, 2004
127
0
0
Let me offer this:

I have put together over 25 computers in the last 10 years. I have always used the power supply that comes with the case (like Evercase USA). I have NEVER seen a system fail to work at stock settings. I have had these power supplies fail after years of continuous operation - but big deal - either replace the power supply or scrap the obsolete system at that point.

I do believe that there can be poor quality or bad power supplies and in infantmortality failures. However, once the power supply has worked for a couple of weeks, it is unlikely to fail until it reaches it's lifecycle.

Other then that I still don't buy this belief about systems needing a high cost power supply.
 

csflipfreakz

Member
Mar 10, 2005
39
0
0
ok it is not a grounding issue with the case...it has to be the psu...by the way, asus has this pcprobe utility that monitors temp, voltages, fan speeds and i notcied the +12v on an average of 11.776...is that normal voltage range?? to me it sounds like thats bad... my +5v is 4.945 and +3.3v is 3.312...
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
Rule of thumb is +/- 5%....so therefore be concerned if under extreme loadfing....which means cpu loaded, vid card loaded and drives spinning and running you should not dip below 11.4v....

The problem is you cant trust most of the mobo sensors....Get a multimeter to test the +12v rail...that will be the best way to do it....

+12v = 12.6-11.4 exceptable range

+5v = 5.25-4.75 exceptable range

+3.3v = 3.465-3.135 exceptable range
 

rpv

Member
Sep 25, 2004
152
0
0
I had an antec smart power initially. It worked well at stock setttings. I could not get anywhere with the OC. I got the fortron source 520w. Happy with it. I could push the processor quite a bit. If u are planning to OC then I cannot emphasise enough the need for a good PSU
 

csflipfreakz

Member
Mar 10, 2005
39
0
0
Originally posted by: Duvie
Rule of thumb is +/- 5%....so therefore be concerned if under extreme loadfing....which means cpu loaded, vid card loaded and drives spinning and running you should not dip below 11.4v....

The problem is you cant trust most of the mobo sensors....Get a multimeter to test the +12v rail...that will be the best way to do it....

+12v = 12.6-11.4 exceptable range

+5v = 5.25-4.75 exceptable range

+3.3v = 3.465-3.135 exceptable range

thanks duvie...exactly what i wanted to know...ill buy a voltmeter and test the psu for the exact voltages...well even if its a dud psu, my new antec truepower 550w from zipzoomfly should be coming in tomorrow or friday...its just i cant wait
 

Shenkoa

Golden Member
Jul 27, 2004
1,707
0
0
I would reccomend Antec before any other brand. Only cause I have seen what they are capable of.
 

edge929

Member
Aug 18, 2002
33
0
0
quote:
__________________________________________________________________________
Let me offer this:

I have put together over 25 computers in the last 10 years. I have always used the power supply that comes with the case (like Evercase USA). I have NEVER seen a system fail to work at stock settings. I have had these power supplies fail after years of continuous operation - but big deal - either replace the power supply or scrap the obsolete system at that point.

I do believe that there can be poor quality or bad power supplies and in infantmortality failures. However, once the power supply has worked for a couple of weeks, it is unlikely to fail until it reaches it's lifecycle.

Other then that I still don't buy this belief about systems needing a high cost power supply.
__________________________________________________________________________


I agree, partially. Out of all the systems I've built for "everyday people", I use the crappy/mediocre PS that comes with the case and have never had a problem. But in this thread, we're not talking about "everyday people", we're referring to OCers and every OCer NEEDS a quality PS. Have you ever tried OCing that crappy PS that comes with your Foxconn case? I have, didn't work on my proven rig with an Enermax 460W.
 
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