Poweroff

[Craig234]

My 8 year old of has started shutting off. Oddly it runs over 12 hours usually but shuts down. minutes after starting. a certain game. When trying to reinstall the game. But sometimes minutes after just booting.

I'm wondering how sure can I be a bad power supply is the cause.

Or how can I isolate other than swapping components.

 

[UsandThem]

The only way to know for sure is to try a new PSU in it. After 8 years, it could be a number of things (motherboard, PSU beginning to go out, video card problem).

Is the whole computer 8 years old, and if so, what are the components?

 

[Craig234]

The only way to know for sure is to try a new PSU in it. After 8 years, it could be a number of things (motherboard, PSU beginning to go out, video card problem).

Is the whole computer 8 years old, and if so, what are the components?

Yes, or close to it. Intel 80GB SSD, 4870, AMD 965 black...

 

[UsandThem]

From your description of it only having problems once you try to start a game or while booting, it is likely either the PSU or video card. I would personally start by checking out the PSU.

 

[Craig234]

It's not only then but seems to happen especially during a demanding game, but also randomly less often.

 

[UsandThem]

It's not only then but seems to happen especially during a demanding game, but also randomly less often.

A dying power supply will often show immediate symptoms when a larger load is placed on it (gaming), but will also make your system less stable with out-of-nowhere crashes and errors.

But since your PC is 8 years old, you really need to inspect your other components as well (leaking and bulging caps, etc) as well.

You can quickly rule out the PSU by trying another one, or use a multimeter.

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-manually-test-a-power-supply-with-a-multimeter-2626158

Honestly though, after 8 years I would personally start looking at a new PC.

 

[UsandThem]

You should also test your hard drive:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282651-32-best-diagnostic-testing-utility

And RAM:

http://www.howtogeek.com/260813/how-to-test-your-computers-ram-for-problems/

And you can use your integrated graphics and remove your video card to rule that out as well.

 

[Horrandi]

i think you should check your chip fan first. If it is too dirty, it will force your pc off due to high temperature. I got the same issue and i replaced the fan.

 

[Craig234]

It's funny: it's rarely shutting off from non-MMO use, like browsing or video watching. But shuts off within minutes of running an MMO, especially one specific MMO.

But here's the stranger thing: after it powers off, after restarting it powers off one to three times again quickly doing nothing but booting - and then eventually stays on for hours again.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's funny: it's rarely shutting off from non-MMO use, like browsing or video watching. But shuts off within minutes of running an MMO, especially one specific MMO.

But here's the stranger thing: after it powers off, after restarting it powers off one to three times again quickly doing nothing but booting - and then eventually stays on for hours again.

That sounds a whole lot like overheating. Something is tweaking your CPU, gets it too hot, shuts off, repeated attempts to start up while the CPU is still hot causes it to turn back off, until it finally cools a bit then starts normally. A CPU with a properly mounted heatsink/fan will cool off very quickly when unpowered (within a second or two for like a 20c delta) but if it's not, it could stay quite hot for a few seconds, like 10-20, which would cause the startup sequence to possibly heat it up again, enough to cause another thermal shutdown.

Check your sink mounting, make sure the fan's working, and get some kind of CPU temp monitoring app to see what's happening when playing that MMO (and normally as well).

 

[Craig234]

I was thinking the same thing. Let's see if there's an app that works on this 8 year old system.

 

[Craig234]

Interesting. I had an app. It showed I think the temp range was (centigrade) 57-60 degrees.

I browsed some steam reviews and checked it again and it had jumped to say the max reached had been 82 degrees but it was holding steady at 70.

Then I started an MMO - not even the worst one for crashes - and the CPU quickly climbed in 2 or 3 minutes to 95 degrees.

At that point I exited the game and it's dropped to 78. The CPU fan is spinning, but my PC is incredibly dusty. Edit: within 5-10 minutes it's down to 56.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Interesting. I had an app. It showed I think the temp range was (centigrade) 57-60 degrees.

I browsed some steam reviews and checked it again and it had jumped to say the max reached had been 82 degrees but it was holding steady at 70.

Then I started an MMO - not even the worst one for crashes - and the CPU quickly climbed in 2 or 3 minutes to 95 degrees.

At that point I exited the game and it's dropped to 78. The CPU fan is spinning, but my PC is incredibly dusty. Edit: within 5-10 minutes it's down to 56.

Yep, that's overheating. I don't even think my q6800 got to 82c gaming, and that thing was a furnace. There's something wrong with your system if it's hitting that while browsing. Most CPUs will start going into 'oh shit' mode around 90-95, at 100c thermal emergency shutoff happens.

Get a vacuum in that thing, make sure you clean out your heat sink. Dust in a heat sink can basically render it useless (or worse than useless, it can hold more heat than ambient would). Make sure it's mounted properly/not loose, and if after that it's still being janky on you, re-paste and remount the sink.

EDIT: Oh and be careful if you've never vacuumed out a computer before. Don't smack the thing around in there, it's not a vehicle engine interior, it's a computer system. Use one of the brushy doodads if you have an attachment. Had a guy where I worked last that broke an ESXi host board when cleaning it out because he was smacking shit around and snapped like two capacitors off the board (and vacuumed them into a shopvac).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, that's definitely overheating. 95C! Ouch!

(My i5-6400 @ 4.51Ghz / 1.410V vcore, would hit 95C and hit the thermal shutoff point during an OCCT CPU test, until I replaced the stock copper-cored Intel heatsink with something a bit better. Now I can run that and not hit 85C, with a Zalman CNPS5x heatsink.)

 

[dlerious]

It might be time to replace the TIM on your CPU and blow that dust out of there, especially if it's affecting airflow.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, depending on the type of TIM used, you should probably re-paste, every 3-5 years. (MX-4 says on the package that applications are good for 8 years, with that. So that may be the exception.) I've seen AS5 applications, that were good after three years, so they can probably go 5-6, maybe. Plain old "white paste" is really only good for three, it tends to dry out after a while, and if you let it go too long, it can turn into a sort of cement. Seen that, trying to re-paste old Pentium Ceramic PGA chips. Had to use a screwdriver to literally pry the chip from the heatsink.

 

[Craig234]

Maybe that helps explain it. How do you replace it?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Maybe that helps explain it. How do you replace it?

Start with cleaning, it's a lot less involved and a lot less likely to get screwed up from inexperience. Reapplying TIM isn't hard but you probably don't have any on-hand (which means money and waiting) and you'll probably need to figure out how to remove the heatsink. And after all that you still need to clean it out.

 

[Craig234]

OK. Basically I'll get a can of air, and maybe some sort of cloth to use to wipe things. I hate to admit I've run the computer for years without the cover on - imagine the dust.

 

[UsandThem]

OK. Basically I'll get a can of air, and maybe some sort of cloth to use to wipe things. I hate to admit I've run the computer for years without the cover on - imagine the dust.

I will admit a computer clogged from dust is not something I even think of when helping long-term users of these forums, but I guess I need to remember some are lifers on here from a sub-forum I never go to.......the wild and dangerous 'off topic'.

It is a good idea to blow your computer out at least once a year, and more often depending on your local conditions and if you are a smoker. Also be sure to unplug your computer before blowing it out, and you might want to have a vacuum nossle going because you will be throwing dust everywhere.

 

[dlerious]

I should look around for an old heatsink I replaced. I had to use a screwdriver and knife to get the crap out of the fins - gave up and bought a new heatsink. Heavy smoker with cats. Pet hair seems to attract more shit

Use a Datavac now.

 

[Craig234]

I should look around for an old heatsink I replaced. I had to use a screwdriver and knife to get the crap out of the fins - gave up and bought a new heatsink. Heavy smoker with cats. Pet hair seems to attract more shit

Use a Datavac now.

They're just too darned expensive for a one-time/occasional use at about $60, when blowing air/brushing are available.

 

[UsandThem]

I once helped a guy troubleshoot his computer because it was crashing and unstable. It was in 2000 when I was stationed overseas, and when I went to his house it smelled like pure cigarettes. Both he and his wife smoked in the house, and when I opened his tower up, it literally looked this photo. Honestly, it was worse because the entire inside had 1-2" 'dust blanket' on it. Even after blowing all that dust and dirt out, all the components were sticky-feeling from the cigarette tar coating everything. Surprisingly, it worked ok for him for about another 9 months before it died.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Niice pic. I've know a few people (friends) with PCs that nearly looked like that. People that run with their cases open, and don't clean their PCs for two years, between upgrades, and a chain smoker.

Thankfully, mine have never gotten nearly that bad. (I don't smoke, nor have pets.)

Edit: My unRAID server, that sits with the case open, had a few cobwebs in the bottom, last time I worked on it. No real dust to speak of though.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The best I saw were when I was working for the mil, they had servers/network equip that would come back from overseas in various sandy areas. These servers were stripped and cleaned monthly, and kept in a sealed environment, but inevitably they'd still come back with like a pound of dust and sand in them. That shit was *everywhere* and you could not get it out. It just permeated the air. Literally tip over a switch or a server and sand would flow out like water.

EDIT: Oh, and don't use compressed air. That just moves dust around so it resettles elsewhere. Vacuum that shit up.