Pre vs Iphone vs Storm

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: pm

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My choices would be, in order:

iPhone-just buy one and if you don't like it, return it during the grace period. The 3GS is stable, fast, and has a ton of support out there. ATT is working on it's infrastructure, everyone has dropped calls, if you're in a congested area, all carriers will have dropped calls.

The Pre, maybe... Build quality seems to be an issue, and I don't like how Palm is counting unsold phones in the retail channel as sold phones to boost their sales numbers. I also don;t like their hacking into iTunes, and Apple modifying iTunes so they can't, this si going to go on forever, I can't see Palm paying for the privilege or Apple willing to give up market share.

Don't bother with a BB, you've had one, everyone I know with a Storm says they wish they had an iPhone, or that Verizon should carry iPhones. BB is losing market share and is going down for the count, in another year or so, they'll be in serious trouble. If you like half baked phones and bad OS's, go for it...



I'm an Android user and have a G1, but only because I'm a TMobile customer for the foreseeable future.

This is a blatant lie, moose and you know it. BB out sell, by millions, any of your 'better' choices. and are still growing share qtr on qtr, but you keep on trolling, I like owning you.

Perhaps but that's because you're a blatant BB fanboy. BB is huge in the US but in the rest of the world it's barely a blip on the radar.

The fact of the matter is the iPhone took the US by storm and it stormed into Europe easily. Even with most of Asia NOT offering the iPhone (China is barely getting in now), you can see that is the one phone capable of penetrating the 90% Symbian OS marketshare there. Windows Mobile is only alive because HTC is in Asia. Where the hell is RIM? Nowhere.

Where are you getting your numbers? Those numbers don't match with what I've read.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/...obal-smartphone-share/

And specifically this table:
http://images.appleinsider.com...8wwsalessmartphone.jpg

Which shows RIM with ~20% worldwide smartphone marketshare, well ahead of Apple with ~11% and moving up on Nokia (@ ~40%) with a strong 85% year-on-year growth rate.

On a similar note, check out the pie charts on the right-hand side of this link:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/1...tion.fortune/index.htm

Both sets of numbers are from Gartner. But numbers from Canalys are pretty close as well:
http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008112.htm

Although Canalys has the RIM and Apple spots swapped around, and show RIM a bit lower than Gartner does, the general trend for RIM and Apple are strongly upward and this idea that RIM has limited and declining worldwide smartphone marketshare are not supported by either of these analyst companies.

I would careless about who got the bigger marketshares or which phone is number one I just care about any phone that works just fine regardeless personal preference and the price you can afford.

 

[Pliablemoose]

My attitude over BB is largely because of it's stock price

Is your company going to invest in a company who's stock does this RIMM

or this: AAPL

The stock market is forward looking, corporations are abandoning BB's and supporting iPhones because their employees are demanding them.

RIMM is in trouble, and it's going to get worse. The danger in being a market leader is you don't turn around and look at what's catching up to you till it's too late. In a similar fashion, the iPhone will get hammered by Android phones, but that's a ways off yet.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My attitude over BB is largely because of it's stock price

Is your company going to invest in a company who's stock does this RIMM

or this: AAPL

The stock market is forward looking, corporations are abandoning BB's and supporting iPhones because their employees are demanding them.

RIMM is in trouble, and it's going to get worse. The danger in being a market leader is you don't turn around and look at what's catching up to you till it's too late. In a similar fashion, the iPhone will get hammered by Android phones, but that's a ways off yet.

Lol. Are you fucking serious? You're comparing a company that has computers, phones, and MP3 players to a phone company. Of course their stock is going to be higher than RIM. How about we compare a company mostly into phones like Nokia. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[pm]

Cdub, I don't think calling him a troll is at all fair. Trolls post crap to get a reaction. Pliable, believes what he is posting, and he's backing it up. Even if you don't agree, labelling someone a troll is essentially an ad hominem fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features...acies/ad-hominem.html).


But, that said, I don't think it's a fair comparison, Pliable. First of all, back off to a scale more than 6 months. In 2006, RIM was at $25. They are now at $65. That's 260% in 3 years. Yes, they have fallen off their high, but pretty much everyone else has too. In the last year, the number of companies whose stock trends look like RIM is a lot higher than the very few who managed to look like Apple. By the way that you are measuring, pretty much all of the Dow Industrials are in trouble too.

Yes, Apple stock is holding up very well - there's no arguement there. Their sales numbers are impressive, and probably even more importantly they have "cachet" or are in vogue or whatever the right word is. My mother bought and iPhone, fell in love and now she's an Apple stockholder too. It was a wise move, but my mother was buying into the mystique as much as she was the future financials of the company.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'm curious what the OP bought, he seems to have abandoned us

I notice a trend with BB's, someone will post a rant about how bad the current browser is, or the Storm sucks, and the response is, "wait till you see what they have next", or "that'll be ironed out in the next OS update", or "install a 3rd party browser, it's much better" IMHO, RIMM is trading on it's reputation, not what they're actually selling now. Folk are buying subsidized phones and are tied into using a particular bit of hardware or plan for 2 years, that's a long time to wait.

Apple's offering works now and IMHO gives the best browsing experience out of the box of all the smart phones.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'm curious what the OP bought, he seems to have abandoned us

I notice a trend with BB's, someone will post a rant about how bad the current browser is, or the Storm sucks, and the response is, "wait till you see what they have next", or "that'll be ironed out in the next OS update", or "install a 3rd party browser, it's much better" IMHO, RIMM is trading on it's reputation, not what they're actually selling now. Folk are buying subsidized phones and are tied into using a particular bit of hardware or plan for 2 years, that's a long time to wait.

Apple's offering works now and IMHO gives the best browsing experience out of the box of all the smart phones.

But I guess the mantra, 'There's an App for that', is OK because it's an iPhone? Let's not forget that other devices also have some fairly glaring omissions that are plugged by OS updates (iPhone has had many updates since launch) or 3rd party applications. And not one person has waited between the g1, g2 or g3/s iPhone to see what comes next?

I guess my problem is you think the iPhone is beyond reproach, but it's far from that. No Google Voice, no concurrent apps, no MMS until latest update, no Adobe Flash support, poor GPS unit (Tom Tom have a cradle with an external GPS unit due to issues with the internal one), to name a few notable issues.

Anyone new to Smartphones listening to you would imagine that you are correct. You appear speak with authority, yet you do not speak objectively or accurately.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero


But I guess the mantra, 'There's an App for that', is OK because it's an iPhone? Let's not forget that other devices also have some fairly glaring omissions that are plugged by OS updates (iPhone has had many updates since launch) or 3rd party applications. And not one person has waited between the g1, g2 or g3/s iPhone to see what comes next?

I guess my problem is you think the iPhone is beyond reproach, but it's far from that. No Google Voice, no concurrent apps, no MMS until latest update, no Adobe Flash support, poor GPS unit (Tom Tom have a cradle with an external GPS unit due to issues with the internal one), to name a few notable issues.

Anyone new to Smartphones listening to you would imagine that you are correct. You appear speak with authority, yet you do not speak objectively or accurately.

LOL, I don't even use an iPhone, although I own one, I use a G1.

ATT just opened up the network to allow Vonage and Skype over 3G (yesterday, so you may not have seen the news) Google Voice won't be far behind, and it's an option if you jailbreak your iPhone.

MMS was just enabled.

As far as GPS, I have no use for a GPS with a 3-4 inch screen, I think all smartphones are miserable GPS's. I much prefer my GPS enabled netbook with Garmin's software.

And I'm not saying the iPhone is beyond reproach, although you are a self confessed BB supporter because your wife works for them, hardly an objective place DBZ. Do you have an Android based phone or a iPhone? I have all three... What I am saying is that out of the box, the iPhone is best of breed, and if you hate them so much, you're going to have a lot to hate in the next year or so.

We have time to see what the market does to smart phones, and it's going to be an interesting ride. IMHO, the best part is that we're not stuck with flipping Windows software on all the smartphones. M$ could have changed the world with it's smartphone software, but chose instead for years to provide a POS OS for manufacturers.

That Apple's offering is 2 years old and has captured this much of the smartphone market is amazing.

Over the next year Apple is going to kick major ass, after that, as the Android OS matures, I think they're going to be in trouble, just like RIMM...

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'm curious what the OP bought, he seems to have abandoned us

I notice a trend with BB's, someone will post a rant about how bad the current browser is, or the Storm sucks, and the response is, "wait till you see what they have next", or "that'll be ironed out in the next OS update", or "install a 3rd party browser, it's much better" IMHO, RIMM is trading on it's reputation, not what they're actually selling now. Folk are buying subsidized phones and are tied into using a particular bit of hardware or plan for 2 years, that's a long time to wait.

Apple's offering works now and IMHO gives the best browsing experience out of the box of all the smart phones.

That is a big reason RIM moves so many devices, most can be had for free or next to nothing with a contract. People have zero issues with paying full price for an iPhone, and even the "cheaper" contract price is still way more than any BB, or most other smart phone on the market. BB has to sell them subsidized to maintain. Where Apple showed people would line up for days waiting for the launch just to pay $600 for an iPhone. The majority of BB owners I know fall into one of 2 categories. 1. Their work provided the it for them and 2. they got it for free, or $50 bucks. I don't know anyone who willing spent $400 on a BB. On the other hand I know dozens who dropped $600 on a 1st gen iPhone.

If BB's were only on 1 carrier like the iPhone is, and RIM didn't subsidize the phone as much as they do, they would be hurting. If iPhones were on every carrier, even at $300 a pop. The iPhone would #1 by a good distance. Look what Apple is doing with a single carrier in the US, that's impressive. I know 1 person who left AT&T to go to Verizon to get a Storm. I know about a dozen who left various cell providers to go to AT&T so they could get an iPhone. Where they ended up paying $200+ for a phone and double or more for their monthly plan just to own one.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero


But I guess the mantra, 'There's an App for that', is OK because it's an iPhone? Let's not forget that other devices also have some fairly glaring omissions that are plugged by OS updates (iPhone has had many updates since launch) or 3rd party applications. And not one person has waited between the g1, g2 or g3/s iPhone to see what comes next?

I guess my problem is you think the iPhone is beyond reproach, but it's far from that. No Google Voice, no concurrent apps, no MMS until latest update, no Adobe Flash support, poor GPS unit (Tom Tom have a cradle with an external GPS unit due to issues with the internal one), to name a few notable issues.

Anyone new to Smartphones listening to you would imagine that you are correct. You appear speak with authority, yet you do not speak objectively or accurately.

LOL, I don't even use an iPhone, although I own one, I use a G1.

ATT just opened up the network to allow Vonage and Skype over 3G (yesterday, so you may not have seen the news) Google Voice won't be far behind, and it's an option if you jailbreak your iPhone.

MMS was just enabled.

As far as GPS, I have no use for a GPS with a 3-4 inch screen, I think all smartphones are miserable GPS's.

And I'm not saying the iPhone is beyond reproach, although you are a self confessed BB supporter because your wife works for them, hardly an objective place DBZ. Do you have an Android based phone or a iPhone? I have all three...

We have time to see what the market does to smart phones, and it's going to be an interesting ride. IMHO, the best part is that we're not stuck with flipping Windows software on all the smartphones. M$ could have changed the world with it's smartphone software, but chose instead for years to provide a POS OS for manufacturers.

OK, but all I hear is someone ranting about how lame device GPS is, or the network sucks, and the response is, "wait till you see what they have next", or "that'll be ironed out by jailbreaking the OS"

See how easy that was?

I AM a BB fanboy, but I will gladly concede that the iPhone does some things better. It's browser is the benchmark. No doubt. The use of OpenGL makes apps look great, but these things are easy to implement, and maybe I've already seen some of it happening in the background. Webkit browsing is coming to BB platform, OpenGL hardware support has been in the Storm since launch. You act like they're sitting on their hands. I'm telling you they're not.

 

[Deeko]

QueBert, you have not been to a store recently, have you?

When iPhone 3G was selling for $199 at AT&T, the next display was a Blackberry Bold, selling for $299. The Tour is going for $149 from Sprint and Verizon (although it was $199 when it was released). The Storm was certainly more expensive than its current $49 when it was released - price is dropped because with the Tour and the upcoming Storm 2, it is an old phone (much like the 3G selling for cheaper now).

Think before posting fanboy drivel. There are legitimate ways to back the iPhone, and your posts do not highlight them. Yes, there were people who bought the launch iPhone for $599 - and frankly, those people are idiots. The first iPhone was a piece of shit from a feature standpoint, that couldn't hold up to even a year old Windows Mobile device at the time. They got it right with the 3G for the most part, though.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'm curious what the OP bought, he seems to have abandoned us

I notice a trend with BB's, someone will post a rant about how bad the current browser is, or the Storm sucks, and the response is, "wait till you see what they have next", or "that'll be ironed out in the next OS update", or "install a 3rd party browser, it's much better" IMHO, RIMM is trading on it's reputation, not what they're actually selling now. Folk are buying subsidized phones and are tied into using a particular bit of hardware or plan for 2 years, that's a long time to wait.

Apple's offering works now and IMHO gives the best browsing experience out of the box of all the smart phones.

That is a big reason RIM moves so many devices, most can be had for free or next to nothing with a contract. People have zero issues with paying full price for an iPhone, and even the "cheaper" contract price is still way more than any BB, or most other smart phone on the market. BB has to sell them subsidized to maintain. Where Apple showed people would line up for days waiting for the launch just to pay $600 for an iPhone. The majority of BB owners I know fall into one of 2 categories. 1. Their work provided the it for them and 2. they got it for free, or $50 bucks. I don't know anyone who willing spent $400 on a BB. On the other hand I know dozens who dropped $600 on a 1st gen iPhone.

If BB's were only on 1 carrier like the iPhone is, and RIM didn't subsidize the phone as much as they do, they would be hurting. If iPhones were on every carrier, even at $300 a pop. The iPhone would #1 by a good distance. Look what Apple is doing with a single carrier in the US, that's impressive. I know 1 person who left AT&T to go to Verizon to get a Storm. I know about a dozen who left various cell providers to go to AT&T so they could get an iPhone. Where they ended up paying $200+ for a phone and double or more for their monthly plan just to own one.

Plenty of people purchase SIM free BB's and pay a pretty penny for them, too, to get devices at launch rather than wait for upgrade.

You're device pricing is way off, however. Most if any free devices are old Pearl series. It's a 3+ year old device, how much do you think it's worth?