Preachers thread: Prices are outrageous...

[obes4k]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

"You clowns?" Go to hell. I'll spend my money on whatever I want. If you can't afford an x850XTPE, too fvcking bad, you don't get one then. You're obviously not as enlightened as you think you are. Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 5500's MSRP was $300? Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 6000's MSRP was $600? Or maybe you forgot when 32MB GeForce2 video cards cost around $350 and the GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB cards were over $400 when they were the creame of the crop? How bout a $500 MSRP on a GeForce2 GTS Ultra? Maybe you forgot when the Ti4600 was released it was selling for over $400. Nothing has changed... premium video cards will always cost around $500... and now we're seeing some premium cards being selected for their overclocking potential and being sold for more... so what? Can't afford it? Don't buy it.

haha, i was waiting for that quote to surface. I can easily afford that price, if you saw my winter car alone... you would understand; don't assume I'm some broke dipshit flipping burgers at the local mc donalds, thanks. I haven't forgot any of those tid bits you mentioned, but I'll respond to a few. For one, theres no such thing as the voodoo5 6000 "maybe you forgot" 3dfx died before its release, but enough flaming. I certainly remember the gf2 gts ultra running up around $450, I never said I wasn't flustered with these prices back then. The fact is simple, you pay the price, they'll keep bumping it up, and why wouldn't they?

Originally posted by: dev0lution
OP - And my first hard drive (20MB) was over $500, so what's your point?! IMO you can find a lot of "good" technology at way better prices than you could even the year before. The high-end will always be ridiculously priced and people will still buy them because they're willing to pay that price for the performance they're getting.

And the "buy a bunch of new high-end cards at wholesale and make a pile of money" idea? Good luck. It's called A L L O C A T I O N and you don't get inventory on an allocated product cheaply at wholesale, nor do you get ANY unless you're moving a boat load of their low end or mid-range stuff. In case you haven't noticed even Newegg and other big etail sites can't get enough to keep them in stock when they're first released. And if it was possible, gee...kind of stupid to tell everyone about such a great idea and not go do it yourself instead of begging to get flamed

First, you can find alot more "good" technology this year than last because your buying last years technology to get fair prices... that was a brain buster einstein. N E W B I E, run a small chain of retail stores in your area then get back to me about how this industry works, I'll be more than happy to point and laugh at you again. To be honest, if I didn't preach about this crap, I'd already be doing that little biz venture stated above... It's not difficult, but to me, it would be about as bad as selling crack.

 

[mooncancook]

still can't make any sense out of a video card costing more than a PSP and a PS2 combined

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: obes4k
For one, theres no such thing as the voodoo5 6000 "maybe you forgot" 3dfx died before its release, but enough flaming.

Eh?

As I recall, they paper released it long before they shut their doors and sold their assets/IP to other companies. Engineering samples and developer cards did exist, though I don't think they ever sold it in any significant quantities to OEMs or retailers.

Also, I don't know why you claim that 9800 Pro prices are going up. I'm still seeing them for around $170-$180 shipped on Pricewatch, and that's from the vendors that have decent/good ratings. Never mind that the 6600GT PCI-e is a much better buy . . .

As far as the rest of your rant goes, if you had been paying attention to the video card market for the last year or so, you'd know that both ATI and Nvidia had some problems delivering large quantities of their last generation of high-end parts. Demand for them was high, but supply was low. X800XT PEs and uh . . . what were they, GeForce 6800 Ultra Extremes I think, were in stupidly short supply. I recall people having problems getting AGP 6800GTs for awhile there. Supply/Demand kicked in, and prices jumped, especially on the high-end cards.

You can get some very, very nice equipment at low prices. DVD burners would top my list of "stupidly cheap". $55-$60 for the NEC 3520A is a steal, no two ways about it. I remember seeing crazy crap like 3x CD burners selling for hundreds of dollars years ago.

CRTs are pretty cheap now, historically speaking.

Harddrives are nice and cheap.

etc, etc.

Video cards are only one part of the computer. If people start saving $50 here on their monitor, or $10 there on their PSU, or $20 on their case, it all adds up to money they can dump on something else. Lo and behold, Nvidia and ATI are more than willing to help us pony up that cash for ridiculously expensive video cards that are in short supply. Who'd a thunk it? While miniscule numbers of those high-end cards sell, both companies will make the majority of their profits pushing crap like the FX5700, 6200 TC, x300, and x600 on OEMs.

Btw, motherboards and CPUs are also, generally speaking, getting pretty cheap. There's a lot of nice, overclockable CPUs out there that do not cost $1k, and after-market cooling for them isn't terribly expensive, either, unless you're some kind of phase-change freak. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Jeff7181]

haha, i was waiting for that quote to surface. I can easily afford that price, if you saw my winter car alone... you would understand; don't assume I'm some broke dipshit flipping burgers at the local mc donalds, thanks. I haven't forgot any of those tid bits you mentioned, but I'll respond to a few. For one, theres no such thing as the voodoo5 6000 "maybe you forgot" 3dfx died before its release, but enough flaming. I certainly remember the gf2 gts ultra running up around $450, I never said I wasn't flustered with these prices back then. The fact is simple, you pay the price, they'll keep bumping it up, and why wouldn't they?

The prices are about the same now as they were back then for premium cards.
The Voodoo5 6000 never made it to store shelves, but it was announced as a future product, and the MSRP was supposed to be $600. linkage

*EDIT* By the way... I wasn't assuming you're poor... I guess I should say "if you aren't willing to pay for it" rather than "if you can't afford it." Either way... an assumption that you're poor and can't afford one of those $500 video cards is about in line with you calling people clowns and noobs.

**EDIT** You've always had to pay top dollar for the latest and greatest. That will never change. A 6600GT is adequate for most gamers and can be had for around $200... if you want high resolutions and high levels of AA and AF, you have to pay for it. If you're a casual gamer who plays a few older games and might wanna try a new game once in a while... a $125 6200 is right up your alley.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

"You clowns?" Go to hell. I'll spend my money on whatever I want. If you can't afford an x850XTPE, too fvcking bad, you don't get one then. You're obviously not as enlightened as you think you are. Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 5500's MSRP was $300? Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 6000's MSRP was $600? Or maybe you forgot when 32MB GeForce2 video cards cost around $350 and the GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB cards were over $400 when they were the creame of the crop? How bout a $500 MSRP on a GeForce2 GTS Ultra? Maybe you forgot when the Ti4600 was released it was selling for over $400. Nothing has changed... premium video cards will always cost around $500... and now we're seeing some premium cards being selected for their overclocking potential and being sold for more... so what? Can't afford it? Don't buy it.

Word.

Dont worry Jeff, this guy doesnt have a clue. But notice how all the noobs point out how they have "12 years of experience"... WELL WHOOPDIE DOO you have 12 yrs of experience that obviously do you no good whatsoever.

Consider 12 years of your life wasted. :thumbsup:
Consider the context, he creates a new account on AT to spread this word of great knowledge that he has earned.


Might I remind that this cutting edge hardware, costs a tremendous amount of money in R&D and cutting edge fabs to produce.
Probably at a higher level of risk and investment than ever before.

Everything is getting bigger, cost of R&D, cost of cutting edge fabs..
hence a expensive product.
They took the risk, they pay to power the lights.. hence if they can sell their product at $600 instead of the $200, who exactly are you to say we shouldnt buy it?
You are an absolute nobody. And not just a regular nobody like us.. you are a CHEAP nobody!
I'm sure obese 4000 would love to do for us, ie. work his whole life building a company, then be a nice guy and sell us video cards that were extremely risky for him and his company to create (you know, products that multiple peoples whole lives are depending on).. and sell those nice and cheap for us

Do you think we'll see a product like SLI (which required Nvidia to create an entire motherboard platform to support, a crapload of driver work that I promise you could never do in your lifetime, basically tons and tons of engineering) if we all bought like you?
Nope.

People want it, so ATI/NV will produce SLI.

They are getting rich off of feeding a demand. Thats all.

Welcome to capitalism. The OP would never make a successful business, and if he even survived the 1st year, he'd never have the balls to expand.
Its the simpleton mentality.

Hes not flipping burgers at Mickey D's.. hes managing one. :thumbsup:

 

[Jeff7181]

Here's an idea... maybe nVidia and ATI should drop prices drastically, but charge software companies BIG bucks for access to their design so they can write games for them. Dump the cost of R&D onto the software companies. Then you can have a $50 z88500XT Ultra Platinum Ti Uber video card... and only pay $300 for Half-Life 3.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Here's an idea... maybe nVidia and ATI should drop prices drastically, but charge software companies BIG bucks for access to their design so they can write games for them. Dump the cost of R&D onto the software companies. Then you can have a $50 z88500XT Ultra Platinum Ti Uber video card... and only pay $300 for Half-Life 3.

Heehee. Funny idea, though you realize that doing so would damn us to an endless supply of games targetting DX 8.1 or DX 9 hardware. Why pay their stupid design fees?

 

[MTSteel]

I agree with OP in a way, the prices are stupid, but then they always are for the top of the line. Would I ever buy top of the line? hell no, I work too hard for my money to spend it on something that gains a bunch of FPS that I do not need(notice I, not others). Is it stupid for others to buy it? Nope. Your money, spend as you like. Just like cars, would I buy a Honda Civic and drop a bunch of $$$ into to make it faster? Nope, I would have just bought that Mustang. There are many who are car enthusiats, and spend thru the nose for car parts, just like computers. Are they stupid for spending that $$ on the cars? Nope, it is 'their thing'(I do own a Civic BTW, but it gets me from A to B for little gas)
As long as i can play my games at a decent rate(60fps), with say medium settings at 1024x768, I am happy. I need to upgrade now, my kt266a and 1600+ and 8500le cannot do that in CS:S. I can play it, but with everything turned off, and in DX7, but I still get 15fps in many situations.
I am cheap to a point...I am someone who will always look for the best bang for buck....

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Here's an idea... maybe nVidia and ATI should drop prices drastically, but charge software companies BIG bucks for access to their design so they can write games for them. Dump the cost of R&D onto the software companies. Then you can have a $50 z88500XT Ultra Platinum Ti Uber video card... and only pay $300 for Half-Life 3.

like the consoles?
:roll:

gotta disagree with the OP . . . prices are expensive, not outrageous.

Housing prices in California are outrageous . . . so is medical costs . . . .

top video cards are expensive . . .

. . . . BUT they are NEVER "necessary" to enjoy the latest games.

 

[Insomniak]

In before lock!

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: obes4k

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

I stopped reading after this. Especially after looking at your sig.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: obes4k

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

I stopped reading after this. Especially after looking at your sig.

He DOES post a lot of crap . . . .

Originally posted by: obes4k

On the other hand, if any of you are looking for a good business venture, try this; Start a small company, designate yourself on one main idea, high end sales, high end prices. Go direct thru ATi and NVidia manufacturers and buy up a whole mess of their high end cards at whole sale prices just as soon as they are available, sit on them for a couple weeks to a month, then do like everybody else when they are rarely in stock anywhere, jack the prices up over $100 each and just role in the dough. It works for newegg and others, it'll work for you too. Just be sure to pay some decent money for a nice looking (and working) web interface, have a good customer service and fast shipping, and you will prosper.

:roll:

sure buy up a "mess" of high-end cards the day they are available

the rest of his "advice" is just as ridiculous.

 

[Genx87]

Translation: Dont buy the cards so I can buy them for cheaper.

QQ

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: obes4k

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

"You clowns?" Go to hell. I'll spend my money on whatever I want. If you can't afford an x850XTPE, too fvcking bad, you don't get one then. You're obviously not as enlightened as you think you are. Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 5500's MSRP was $300? Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 6000's MSRP was $600? Or maybe you forgot when 32MB GeForce2 video cards cost around $350 and the GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB cards were over $400 when they were the creame of the crop? How bout a $500 MSRP on a GeForce2 GTS Ultra? Maybe you forgot when the Ti4600 was released it was selling for over $400. Nothing has changed... premium video cards will always cost around $500... and now we're seeing some premium cards being selected for their overclocking potential and being sold for more... so what? Can't afford it? Don't buy it.

haha, i was waiting for that quote to surface. I can easily afford that price, if you saw my winter car alone... you would understand; don't assume I'm some broke dipshit flipping burgers at the local mc donalds, thanks. I haven't forgot any of those tid bits you mentioned, but I'll respond to a few. For one, theres no such thing as the voodoo5 6000 "maybe you forgot" 3dfx died before its release, but enough flaming. I certainly remember the gf2 gts ultra running up around $450, I never said I wasn't flustered with these prices back then. The fact is simple, you pay the price, they'll keep bumping it up, and why wouldn't they?

Originally posted by: dev0lution
OP - And my first hard drive (20MB) was over $500, so what's your point?! IMO you can find a lot of "good" technology at way better prices than you could even the year before. The high-end will always be ridiculously priced and people will still buy them because they're willing to pay that price for the performance they're getting.

And the "buy a bunch of new high-end cards at wholesale and make a pile of money" idea? Good luck. It's called A L L O C A T I O N and you don't get inventory on an allocated product cheaply at wholesale, nor do you get ANY unless you're moving a boat load of their low end or mid-range stuff. In case you haven't noticed even Newegg and other big etail sites can't get enough to keep them in stock when they're first released. And if it was possible, gee...kind of stupid to tell everyone about such a great idea and not go do it yourself instead of begging to get flamed

First, you can find alot more "good" technology this year than last because your buying last years technology to get fair prices... that was a brain buster einstein. N E W B I E, run a small chain of retail stores in your area then get back to me about how this industry works, I'll be more than happy to point and laugh at you again. To be honest, if I didn't preach about this crap, I'd already be doing that little biz venture stated above... It's not difficult, but to me, it would be about as bad as selling crack.

So your calling people who are broke, dipsh!ts? Get hit by a bus.

 

[asm0deus]

Originally posted by: Dman877
My price limits:
Video Card - 200$
CPU - 200$
Mobo - 100$
Ram - 200$
Hard Drive - 100$
Case - 100$
Monitor - 500$

IMO, for those prices you don't get screwed but your system is still capable of running everything perfectly.

those seem to be about as high as i would go too :thumbsup:

 

[dev0lution]

Originally posted by: obes4k
First, you can find alot more "good" technology this year than last because your buying last years technology to get fair prices... that was a brain buster einstein. N E W B I E, run a small chain of retail stores in your area then get back to me about how this industry works, I'll be more than happy to point and laugh at you again. To be honest, if I didn't preach about this crap, I'd already be doing that little biz venture stated above... It's not difficult, but to me, it would be about as bad as selling crack.

Explain how buying a new model today that has better features/performance than the earlier generation's is getting "last year's technology". Case in point - DVD Burner's. You can get faster speeds on the newer models for half the price you could a year ago. Hardly buying last year's technology as you'd put it. You could argue that nothing's changed technology wise, but that's a mature technology vs last year's technology as you stated.

Newbie? I don't need to run a chain of retail stores to know how product gets allocated and priced. Given that you have no idea who I am or what I do, that's a bold claim. And since online retailers need more than a couple units sitting on a shelf in a few stores like you might be able to get by with, you still haven't rebutted my original point.

And now that you mention it, why don't you post what chain you run so we can all check out what prices YOU'RE selling these products for. I'm sure we'd find unheard of low prices for these cards and a great reseller rating to boot. Oh wait, that wouldn't be too smart would it considering you called all the customers who might buy those cards "clowns". Post about how you're making less margin on these cards and I might be sympathetic, but to call people who have the cash and the desire to spend it on a high-end product stupid is ridiculous.

 

[lotus503]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

"You clowns?" Go to hell. I'll spend my money on whatever I want. If you can't afford an x850XTPE, too fvcking bad, you don't get one then. You're obviously not as enlightened as you think you are. Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 5500's MSRP was $300? Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 6000's MSRP was $600? Or maybe you forgot when 32MB GeForce2 video cards cost around $350 and the GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB cards were over $400 when they were the creame of the crop? How bout a $500 MSRP on a GeForce2 GTS Ultra? Maybe you forgot when the Ti4600 was released it was selling for over $400. Nothing has changed... premium video cards will always cost around $500... and now we're seeing some premium cards being selected for their overclocking potential and being sold for more... so what? Can't afford it? Don't buy it.

Word.

Dont worry Jeff, this guy doesnt have a clue. But notice how all the noobs point out how they have "12 years of experience"... WELL WHOOPDIE DOO you have 12 yrs of experience that obviously do you no good whatsoever.

Consider 12 years of your life wasted. :thumbsup:
Consider the context, he creates a new account on AT to spread this word of great knowledge that he has earned.


Might I remind that this cutting edge hardware, costs a tremendous amount of money in R&D and cutting edge fabs to produce.
Probably at a higher level of risk and investment than ever before.

Everything is getting bigger, cost of R&D, cost of cutting edge fabs..
hence a expensive product.
They took the risk, they pay to power the lights.. hence if they can sell their product at $600 instead of the $200, who exactly are you to say we shouldnt buy it?
You are an absolute nobody. And not just a regular nobody like us.. you are a CHEAP nobody!
I'm sure obese 4000 would love to do for us, ie. work his whole life building a company, then be a nice guy and sell us video cards that were extremely risky for him and his company to create (you know, products that multiple peoples whole lives are depending on).. and sell those nice and cheap for us

Do you think we'll see a product like SLI (which required Nvidia to create an entire motherboard platform to support, a crapload of driver work that I promise you could never do in your lifetime, basically tons and tons of engineering) if we all bought like you?
Nope.

People want it, so ATI/NV will produce SLI.

They are getting rich off of feeding a demand. Thats all.

Welcome to capitalism. The OP would never make a successful business, and if he even survived the 1st year, he'd never have the balls to expand.
Its the simpleton mentality.

Hes not flipping burgers at Mickey D's.. hes managing one. :thumbsup:

What he said ^^^^


Seriously, At my stage of life if I want to drop some cash on something I will, and I wont think twice about it.

The only thing that sucks is having to get the wifes permission

 

[rbV5]

I can easily afford that price, if you saw my winter car alone... you would understand; don't assume I'm some broke dipshit flipping burgers at the local mc donalds

Here on the intraweb, the assumption would already be that you were some pale, skinny teenager using the "Cloak of Anonymity" to troll a hardware forum with an obvious thread created to transfer the anger from your last beating by your sister, to a crowd of rabid enthusiasts.

It would also be assumed that you would burn easily in direct sunlight, be well below average height and have a "much" stronger right arm than left arm.

I don't buy a bit of it though.....generalizations can be so....'general'....and you sound like a "real" cool guy....especially the winter car thing and the way you give the 'business" to those slacker minimum wage earners....

 

[Concillian]

To the OP, I think you're inthe wrong forum. Video cards actually give noticeable performance improvements when you spend money on them. You get a better experience as you climb the cost ladder.

You want to play modern games at 1024x with good settings? You spend around $100
You want to play modern games at 1280x with good settings? You spend around $200
You want to play modern games at 1600x with good settings? You spend around $400
You want the best there is at a marginal peformance increase over the last tier? you spend over $500.

Video cards have brought TANGIBLE benefits to video games in the last couple years. AA/AF is VERY usable now, 32 bit color performance is identical to 16 bit color performance, etc...

If you don't want to experience the benefit of these advances, then GF4 cards can STILL provide good gaming performance in modern games.

You need to go to the CPU/memory forum where people are spending twice what they have to and are getting no perceivable benefits in games. There is little tangible benefit from a very high end CPU over a $100 CPU these days. I can underclock my S754 A64 to 1400 MHz and not be able to tell a difference between that and overclocked to 2400 MHz in my normal gaming. The same cannot be said of video cards.

Video card prices are changing somewhat, but it's not like you can't still get decent performance from a $150 card. You can. Your rant gives the perception that you think the video card companies have MOVED the entire line upwards on the price scale, but I think that is NOT the case. I think the entire lineup has EXPANDED to cater to more people. The bottom of the market is still the same, filled with neutered and stripped down versions for under $100. Price of entry in the TNT days was a little over $100, and it still is today for cards like 9600 Pros and 6200s. The 'midrange' tier is still squarely in the $200 range it always was. we're seeing additions to the lines to move them into an 'ultra-top' tier.

As for your 9800 card purchase, you're equating a 'best deal ever' to current average pricing. $160 shipped for a real 9800 pro was never the norm. Newer technology will always bring more performance for same or less money, and that is what is happening today, as an overclocked 6600 (non-GT) is about equal performance to an overclocked 9800 Pro for the ~$125 range.

 

[nitromullet]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=32&threadid=1523470&enterthread=y

Sounds like you haven't learned all that much in 12 years IMO... Not that you're a n00b, but you just don't come off as being that experienced in that thread. Considering that your issue involved artifacting, I think I would have swapped out the video card well before the HD, but that's just me...

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=32&threadid=1523470&enterthread=y

Sounds like you haven't learned all that much in 12 years IMO... Not that you're a n00b, but you just don't come off as being that experienced in that thread. Considering that your issue involved artifacting, I think I would have swapped out the video card well before the HD, but that's just me...

LOL. That's some major ownage there. 12 years experience and don't know how to reset the CMOS.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=32&threadid=1523470&enterthread=y

Sounds like you haven't learned all that much in 12 years IMO... Not that you're a n00b, but you just don't come off as being that experienced in that thread. Considering that your issue involved artifacting, I think I would have swapped out the video card well before the HD, but that's just me...

Nitro, you're being very polite!

He says the heatsink is dangling off the 9800p. But it shouldn't be damaged cuz he wasn't gaming? Ummm, OK, maybe if you're REAL lucky.

Later he talks of resetting the cmos on his 9800p?

There's more too.

But, to the OP, yes paying that much (which AFAK is over MSRP) is silly. But peeps have been paying top dollar for their "big e-penis" since waaaay back. Nothings gonna change it. Look at the fashion world, or fancy sneakers. It's just human nature. If your as old as you make out, well you should know this by now. Even be bored with it.

That fact that some will pay outrages prices to be "the First", doesn't IMHO hurt the rest of us. I just read their posts, with benchies, about their $800+ cards and decide if I wanna spend $400 or whatever for it later.

Those who wanna be first/unique (whatever) will part with their dough, then the market forces will take effect and prices will drop. Ex. A PC game at $49.95, I don't think so, I'll wait 3, 6, 9 months and pay 19.95. By then I'll have a good idea if it's decent, and the patches will be out. So, I don't realy care if they pay 49.95 and find all the bugs, so I can buy a working game fo half the price a little later.

I guess I see it as the "glass half-full". They pay top dollar, subsidizing my later purchase and do all the product testing to boot!

 

[obes4k]

the reset cmos on mobo is nothing, i thought that guy was talking about resetting 9800 cmos, i didn't know how the fvck to do that. anyhow, just forget this thread even exists, im just pissed off because i quit smoking a couple days back

 

[obes4k]

i need a cigarette...

 

[nitromullet]

Nitro, you're being very polite!

Well. overall the OP has been a fairly polite poster, and the post I linked to shows this. I'm just not really sure why someone who has generally gotten useful responses from the AT video forum would decide that he needed to start a thread calling video card enthusiasts idots and clowns. Seems somewhat disrespectful and an overall crappy way to return the favor. That being said, I've gotten into flamewars myself with individuals that have turned around and been helpful or supportive when I had an issue, so I have no intentions of alientating obes4k. He has a right to his own opinion, but I think that he should reconsider his approach if he expects a mature debate or help from any of us in the future.