Preachers thread: Prices are outrageous...

obes4k

Member
Feb 18, 2005
30
0
0
Before I get to the nitty gritty, I'd like to introduce myself. I've been building comps for over 12 years, into online gaming ect... for over 8 years, and just all around knowledgeable in the comp industry. Newbs need not respond.

You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards. The more people who buy into these rediculous prices, the steeper the prices are going to be in the future. You guys are shooting yourselves in the feet. Looking at newegg, I see they have ATi / Sapphire x850 xt-pe for a mere $800. Anybody stupid enough to pay that much for that card should be roped to a bumper and taken for a cruise down the interstate (I take no responsibility for anybody who ties their neighbors leg to the car and speeds down the street, after finding out they spent $700+ on a video card, you are a sick person, possibly a post office worker).

ATi & NVidia are getting so filthy rich off you enthusiasts (idiots) that they'll likely never drop their prices back into reasonable ranges, and are even now bumping up the prices on their mid-range cards as well (after all, they don't want everybody abandoning the high end range).

I feel sorry for the newbs, just getting into the comp scene and spending a small fortune on these cards... it makes me wish I had the power to do something about it... It seems anymore, if you want a decent rig, you have to wait for atleast 30-60 days for that killer deal, otherwise you're dropping unprecidented money on a card.

But prices seem to be raising all across the board... Me for example. I picked up an MSI Rx9800 Pro back in July for $160 shipped. You can't find a pricetag like that anywhere but ebay as of now, as prices are clearing $200 (EDIT: $250 on ati.com). I see things like this and think to myself... W T F

Take a look at mobo's. 2 years ago the top end mobo would sell for $120, they've doubled the pricetag since then, and thats with even more competition on the market. CPU's are even worse... $1000 for top end cpu's is gut wrenching to say the least. All in all, I'd be lying if I said I don't think there is some sort of coordination between these big companies. Intel and AMD for example; at one point in time, back when AMD was making a name for itself, the competition was VERY healthy, as the Athlon was the first CPU to hit the 1GHz marker and sold for less than the P3 @ 800 MHz, Intel and AMD were breaking their balls to produce cheaper pricetags on faster processors to compete with its counterpart. Now it seems to be one big monopoly. Prices soar higher than ever before on their high end vector, and the fan base for both companies are large enough that they don't have to worry about competition. They make their $$$ the new fashioned way, which is a simple equation. The rate of PC users is growing at a staggering rate, especially now over seas, and to many users, having the envy of others over a cooler PC is like a competition. <=== these are the idiots I mentioned earlier)

So, with record #'s of users, comes record #'s of sales, in comes the marketing strategy. To those who may think otherwise, the mid-end cpu's and gpu's are where these corperations make their most money, as most people see it as uncanny to pay so much for a computer. So, what should they do to rape us out of money? Create the high end with numb skull prices, and that comes with 2 major advantages. One: the obvious of the 2, they make great profits off bloated sales prices. Two: they can raise the prices of their mid-range chips, having the prices seem much more appealing and realistic in comparison to the high-end, and thats what stuffs their wallets.

On the other hand, if any of you are looking for a good business venture, try this; Start a small company, designate yourself on one main idea, high end sales, high end prices. Go direct thru ATi and NVidia manufacturers and buy up a whole mess of their high end cards at whole sale prices just as soon as they are available, sit on them for a couple weeks to a month, then do like everybody else when they are rarely in stock anywhere, jack the prices up over $100 each and just role in the dough. It works for newegg and others, it'll work for you too. Just be sure to pay some decent money for a nice looking (and working) web interface, have a good customer service and fast shipping, and you will prosper.

I've saw this industry come a long way, and from the trends I've been noticing over the years, the future looks bleak. This post, wont cause any riots or boycotts, and I know fully well I'm going to get flamed by more than a few individuals who don't like being called an idiot, but if even 1 person read this and it opened his/her eyes, I'll feel better about it already.
 

302efi

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2004
1,539
1
81
Did you ever consider that the raw materials to make the mobo's, GPU's & CPU's went up as well ?

In the 1960's Brand new cars sold for what, $3000-$4000...Today they start at $12000 or so......I guess were getting ripped there too
 

fuzzynavel

Senior member
Sep 10, 2004
629
0
0
In the 1960's Brand new cars sold for what, $3000-$4000...Today they start at $12000 or so......I guess were getting ripped there too

the value of currency has changed too.....here in the UK we have changed from Imperial currency to Metric currency etc since the 60's......a lot of things have changed.....if you had £4000 in the 60's then you were pretty rich...but £4000 now is little over double a reasonable wage...

The thread opener has a point....as long as people pay the prices then people will keep charging them......

Did you ever consider that the raw materials to make the mobo's, GPU's & CPU's went up as well ?

The prices rise and fall as technology is discovered and utilised....

As something is discovered the cost is prohibitively expensive but as the technology is utilised and a market grows then the cost per unit automatically drops....

ATI is playing on this fact with the paper launches of the various iterations of the X800 and X850.......they keep supply low to keep demand high....high demand = high prices.....their costs may be quite high but I very much doubt that they will make a loss!
 

Scoobyd00

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2002
1,386
14
81
Yes things have gone up in price. but not at the rate that these people are ripping us off at.
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,448
10,118
126
Originally posted by: obes4k
Before I get to the nitty gritty, I'd like to introduce myself. I've been building comps for over 12 years, into online gaming ect... for over 8 years, and just all around knowledgeable in the comp industry. Newbs need not respond.
You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards. The more people who buy into these rediculous prices, the steeper the prices are going to be in the future. You guys are shooting yourselves in the feet. Looking at newegg, I see they have ATi / Sapphire x850 xt-pe for a mere $800. Anybody stupid enough to pay that much for that card should be roped to a bumper and taken for a cruise down the interstate (I take no responsibility for anybody who ties their neighbors leg to the car and speeds down the street, after finding out they spent $700+ on a video card, you are a sick person, possibly a post office worker).
Well, that's true, but... back in the "high-end 2D days", a "cutting-edge" card, like a 4MB (2MB?) VRAM ATI Mach64 PCI card, would cost you a cool $600, if you paid "list price" for it. I got my VLB version for $220, pre-owned, after bartering with the seller a bit, and thought at the time that I got a heck of a deal on it. And in fact, it was the first PCI video card to support accelerated 2D sprite-style blitting under DirectX 1.0 (wasn't called that back then though). The Fox & Bear demo from the SDK, ran at full frame-rate.. amazing!

But I do tend to agree with your overall sentiment, back then there wasn't a huge mainstream market for those cards, nor was the competition so fierce (ok, there was Matrox too, but at similar prices). If anything, prices should be going down, not up. Memory prices are going down too, so what is the deal here? I have a feeling that by the end of the year, when PCI-E isn't so "new" anymore, and AGP is "old", that prices will come back down to sane levels.
Originally posted by: obes4k
But prices seem to be raising all across the board... Me for example. I picked up an MSI Rx9800 Pro back in July for $160 shipped. You can't find a pricetag like that anywhere but ebay as of now, as prices are clearing $200 (EDIT: $250 on ati.com). I see things like this and think to myself... W T F
I haven't checked recently, but ... R9800 prices, going back up above $200? Wow. That is kind of strange.
Originally posted by: obes4k
I've saw this industry come a long way, and from the trends I've been noticing over the years, the future looks bleak. This post, wont cause any riots or boycotts, and I know fully well I'm going to get flamed by more than a few individuals who don't like being called an idiot, but if even 1 person read this and it opened his/her eyes, I'll feel better about it already.
Well, I've ranted enough myself on the nearly non-existant current-gen mid-range, and the additional cost for an SLI rig, etc. Although, as far as "pricing karma" goes, CPU prices and system RAM prices aren't nearly as high as they used to be, relatively speaking. You can get top-end CPU performance and obscene amounts of RAM these days, without totally breaking the bank. But gaming performance is still largely determined by the GPU/card, and that's where the primary money is in a PC system these days, apparently.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

:thumbsup:
 

obes4k

Member
Feb 18, 2005
30
0
0
Originally posted by: 302efi
Did you ever consider that the raw materials to make the mobo's, GPU's & CPU's went up as well ?

In the 1960's Brand new cars sold for what, $3000-$4000...Today they start at $12000 or so......I guess were getting ripped there too


That is a somewhat good point, but the timespan we're looking at here is 5 years vs 50 as you pointed out. While certain things on mobo's DO go up in price, such as newer chipsets, most components are becoming a dime a dozen, and hardly warrant all around a doubled price. They are jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other PC hardware companies out there... We are willing pay the price, they have no problem charging it.

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Well, that's true, but... back in the "high-end 2D days", a "cutting-edge" card, like a 4MB (2MB?) VRAM ATI Mach64 PCI card, would cost you a cool $600, if you paid "list price" for it. I got my VLB version for $220, pre-owned, after bartering with the seller a bit, and thought at the time that I got a heck of a deal on it. And in fact, it was the first PCI video card to support accelerated 2D sprite-style blitting under DirectX 1.0 (wasn't called that back then though). The Fox & Bear demo from the SDK, ran at full frame-rate.. amazing!

haha, your bringing back memories. But consider back when NVidia first dumped the GeForce on the market. What were they charging for it, $250? It wasn't until the high end geforce 2 hit the market before they started charging over $300, roughly half the price of the high end now... It makes me wonder what the prices will be in another 4 years, $1600 for the high end? Maybe even more?
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

hey, I said newbs need not apply! j/k While that is certainly true, "Don't want it...Don't buy it" it certainly doesn't provide a legit reason as to why this is happening in the first place. As to your assuming I buy the highend to get the best of the best after I posted all that up top, leaves me thinking you either didn't read my post, or your IQ doesn't permit you imagine my situation realistically.

 

Gamer X

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
769
0
0
I think that as long as games are playable on a pc you should keep it,
I find people for instance upgrading from pentium 4 2.4 and 9800 pro to
athlon64 3000+ and 6800gt or X800X,I don't know why they do that,they should
keep that rig until games are not playabe anymore and then upgrade to a
much newer pc than the 3000+ and the 6800gt.If we all do that demand will
go down and so will the prices;I am a hardcore gamer and games are essential
part in my life but we have to remember that we are paying all that money just
to play games.
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
hey, I said newbs need not apply! j/k While that is certainly true, "Don't want it...Don't buy it" it certainly doesn't provide a legit reason as to why this is happening in the first place. As to your assuming I buy the highend to get the best of the best after I posted all that up top, leaves me thinking you either didn't read my post, or your IQ doesn't permit you imagine my situation realistically.

I simply used "your" tired example. I read your cliche riddled post, full of questionable "facts" and "assumptions" of the enthusiast that may frequent this forum. What am I supposed to do? counter your insipid whine with real facts? Gimme a break:roll:

Flame score: 0.5/10 Thread score: 1/10


 

cbehnken

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2004
1,402
0
0
Originally posted by: obes4k
Originally posted by: 302efi
Did you ever consider that the raw materials to make the mobo's, GPU's & CPU's went up as well ?

In the 1960's Brand new cars sold for what, $3000-$4000...Today they start at $12000 or so......I guess were getting ripped there too


That is a somewhat good point, but the timespan we're looking at here is 5 years vs 50 as you pointed out. While certain things on mobo's DO go up in price, such as newer chipsets, most components are becoming a dime a dozen, and hardly warrant all around a doubled price. They are jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other PC hardware companies out there... We are willing pay the price, they have no problem charging it.

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Well, that's true, but... back in the "high-end 2D days", a "cutting-edge" card, like a 4MB (2MB?) VRAM ATI Mach64 PCI card, would cost you a cool $600, if you paid "list price" for it. I got my VLB version for $220, pre-owned, after bartering with the seller a bit, and thought at the time that I got a heck of a deal on it. And in fact, it was the first PCI video card to support accelerated 2D sprite-style blitting under DirectX 1.0 (wasn't called that back then though). The Fox & Bear demo from the SDK, ran at full frame-rate.. amazing!

haha, your bringing back memories. But consider back when NVidia first dumped the GeForce on the market. What were they charging for it, $250? It wasn't until the high end geforce 2 hit the market before they started charging over $300, roughly half the price of the high end now... It makes me wonder what the prices will be in another 4 years, $1600 for the high end? Maybe even more?
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

hey, I said newbs need not apply! j/k While that is certainly true, "Don't want it...Don't buy it" it certainly doesn't provide a legit reason as to why this is happening in the first place. As to your assuming I buy the highend to get the best of the best after I posted all that up top, leaves me thinking you either didn't read my post, or your IQ doesn't permit you imagine my situation realistically.


Nothing has changed. I paid $300.00 for a 2D Matrox Millenium back in the mid ninenties. If anything cards are more affordable.

You can easily find a 9700-9800 for $150.00 used that will play almost anything just fine.

6600GTs are $150-200 new and outperform the 9800s in almost any game, even if the margin is slim it is still a bargain.

6800nus are easily found for $250.

Even if you pay $300 for a 6800nu it is still a good deal for the card you get.

High end video cards are like coin collecting. Is someone an idiot because they pay thousands of dollars for a quarter?
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
Nothing has changed. I paid $300.00 for a 2D Matrox Millenium back in the mid ninenties. If anything cards are more affordable.

I paid $3200 for a Packard Bell PC with a P100 and a 14" CRT (I didn't want no P66...I wanted serious Power baby ) and a coupon for Win95, MS "new" OS that would ship a couple months later......those were the days, (I'm embarrassed to say how much I paid for 1MB memory sticks for my 386, so I could have 8 MB of RAM)
 

ubercaffeinated

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2002
2,130
0
71
Back in the early/mid 90s when I didn't know shite about computers, I paid 5gs for an IBM Aptiva. IT WAS FAST! It had 133 whopping Mhz, and killed my 8mhz 286! It was top of the line then baby. 5 years later I threw it away in the dump because it became so outdated. Now I know better.

800 bucks is expensive, but with the kinda juice you can get out of the baby, why not? I mean how much time do you spend on the computer? I spend a good portion of mine on it. A 800 dollar investment, in that aspect isn't much. I'm just paying more to get more.

Furthermore, you can't address "enthusiasts" as idiots. Enthusiasts pay the premium to get that extra mile. Hence the word "enthusiast", which dictionary.com defines as "A zealot; a fanatic." Clearly the x850 XTSDKSLDFS: isn't for everyone. If it's not for you don't gripe. ATI sells it because people will buy it. But ATI and NVidia also have some great middle range cards available at the $200 range that perform really well. You can't compare someone utilitarian as yourself, to an enthusiast, as you and he are two different breeds of computer builders.
 

cryptonomicon

Senior member
Oct 20, 2004
467
0
0
i read your post.

and i suggest you also take a look at the currency exchange rates. the dollar has got its ass kicked lately hasn't it? imported products therefore are going to be more expensive, not to mention inflation too.

lastly, the top line of cards will always be very expensive, and are even more expensive because they are gouged by retailers and short supply, so this isnt necessarily the MFGs fault. if you look at the middle line of cards right now, the 6600GT is looking pretty awesome for its price, dont you think?
 

obes4k

Member
Feb 18, 2005
30
0
0
Nothing has changed. I paid $300.00 for a 2D Matrox Millenium back in the mid ninenties. If anything cards are more affordable.

I paid $3200 for a Packard Bell PC with a P100 and a 14" CRT (I didn't want no P66...I wanted serious Power baby ) and a coupon for Win95, MS "new" OS that would ship a couple months later......those were the days, (I'm embarrassed to say how much I paid for 1MB memory sticks for my 386, so I could have 8 MB of RAM)

heh, don't remind me Do you remember this apple ad? Dated 1977. I was a young pup at that time, but I do vaguely remember it, or perhaps something very similar.
 

dfloyd

Senior member
Nov 7, 2000
978
0
0
Hmm not sure this is a correct statement.

In 1995 I purchased the following system for $1300.

486 Dx2/80
8 MB Ram
420 MB Hard Drive
2 X CD Rom Drive
Mini Tower Case
S3 Trio 64V+ Video Card 2mb of Ram
14" Monitor
3w Speakers
Dos 6.2 and Win 3.1 (95 Was still new at the time and I did not like it. Was too slow on my work system and just did not like the feel so went with this, not to mention was quite a cost to upgrade to it)

A quick trip over to dell.com and you can get the following system for $499

Pentium 4 2.80
Intel Extreme Graphics II
512MB 400Mhz Ram
80GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive
17" CRT Monitor
48x CD Rom Drive
Wordperfect Suite
Winxp Home

Yes the times have changed and technology has advanced but you are still getting far more for far less. Yes the enuthasist market is expensive. It is and always will be expensive to get the newest and best as soon as it comes out. Your saying $800 is alot for the almost highest end video card on the market and I agree, it is way to much imo. But I remember years back when two voodoo 2s in sli ran you well over $600. So imo its not really went up that much, at least not considering the amount of power that $800 card holds.

I do agree that they are price gouging their low and midend cards but I believe that only Ati is doing this and I believe they are doing it more because they do not have a good low end or agp product to compete with Nvidia. The only thing they have is the 9800 and imo they are misleading consumers by setting the price closer to the 6600 GT to make it seem like it somehow competes with it. The 6600 GT is a much better card overall and can be had as low as $150. Thats pretty cheap for a very powerful card. If your looking at true low end then the 5200 can be had for $49. Heck as far as Ati is concerned I believe all of their products are overpriced. Imo they are acting like Intel did when they controlled the market. This will only hurt Ati imo in the long run. But this is a company issue, not the whole industry.

Again the high end enthusasit market is expensive. It always has been and probably always will be. Yes we could use more competition. But I disagree that prices are staying high because people are paying ludicrious prices. The mid end is quite low and you can get more power now than you ever could for the cost.

And for those people paying those extreme prices I am reminded of a saying, more money than sense. That is one problem I wish I suffered from

Edit: Now if you want to complain about a issue then do so about how low resell values are on items. That exact 486dx280 system above was resold one year later for $1300. Now trying to sell a system you paid that much for a year ago is about impossbile. Might as well trying giving stuff away.
 

paladiin

Member
Oct 23, 2001
181
0
0
Huh???

I got in on the BB/HL2/6800 deal, and my BFG 6800NU ended up costing me ~$200, which is less than what I resold my 5900u 256MB on Ebay for.

Just last week, I got my wife a 6600GT AGP for $170 after rebate.

Picked up a socket 939 Epox mobo for $90.

512MB of Corsair Value 2.5CL PC3200 is selling for under $60 a stick.


Thread grade: D-
Maybe next time...
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

This is very true. While there is a lot of very high priced stuff out now, you can build a smoking combo for less than the cost of a video card these days.

An A64 3000+/motherboard/6800GT could be had for under $650 and would run any game very well at very nice settings.

 

rise

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
9,116
46
91
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

exactly.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,818
21,576
146
Originally posted by: rise4310
Originally posted by: rbV5
Don't want it...Don't buy it.

Funny, I'm shopping for parts, and I'm finding, like usual, that now a careful shopper/builder can get more for less.

Cherry Pick the highest prices, for bleeding edge hardware thats simply unecissary, and then cry about its pricing you out of your hobby....very original Captain Obvious:roll:

1/10

exactly.
:thumbsup:

Besides, at least I am not being gouged for hundreds of dollars for 16mb of ram or a 1gb HDD I'll take a $400 vid card that overclocks to the $500+ model with less cooling and power connectors over that shat anyday!

 

dev0lution

Senior member
Dec 23, 2004
472
0
0
OP - And my first hard drive (20MB) was over $500, so what's your point?! IMO you can find a lot of "good" technology at way better prices than you could even the year before. The high-end will always be ridiculously priced and people will still buy them because they're willing to pay that price for the performance they're getting.

And the "buy a bunch of new high-end cards at wholesale and make a pile of money" idea? Good luck. It's called A L L O C A T I O N and you don't get inventory on an allocated product cheaply at wholesale, nor do you get ANY unless you're moving a boat load of their low end or mid-range stuff. In case you haven't noticed even Newegg and other big etail sites can't get enough to keep them in stock when they're first released. And if it was possible, gee...kind of stupid to tell everyone about such a great idea and not go do it yourself instead of begging to get flamed
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
You clowns need to stop spending so much on vid cards.

"You clowns?" Go to hell. I'll spend my money on whatever I want. If you can't afford an x850XTPE, too fvcking bad, you don't get one then. You're obviously not as enlightened as you think you are. Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 5500's MSRP was $300? Maybe you forgot that the Voodoo5 6000's MSRP was $600? Or maybe you forgot when 32MB GeForce2 video cards cost around $350 and the GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB cards were over $400 when they were the creame of the crop? How bout a $500 MSRP on a GeForce2 GTS Ultra? Maybe you forgot when the Ti4600 was released it was selling for over $400. Nothing has changed... premium video cards will always cost around $500... and now we're seeing some premium cards being selected for their overclocking potential and being sold for more... so what? Can't afford it? Don't buy it.
 

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,707
0
0
My price limits:
Video Card - 200$
CPU - 200$
Mobo - 100$
Ram - 200$
Hard Drive - 100$
Case - 100$
Monitor - 500$

IMO, for those prices you don't get screwed but your system is still capable of running everything perfectly.
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
81
I remember spending $250 just to get a math co-processor for my 386, so overall prices are good. I agree that the bang for the buck isn't what it used to be. It was interesting that my Ti4200 cost $120 over a year ago, and I couldn't get much better performance for the same price after all that time.

It hurt to spend $215 on my 6600GT. I waited 2 months for prices to drop, but they didn't. It's pretty sweet being able to run 1280 x 1024 with AA on every game, and overall I'm happy with the purchase.

The problem is that most games are bottle necked by the video card, so it makes sense to spend more money there. Also, the US dollar is a lot weaker than it was a year ago.

If you don't game, there are some awesome deals, though, especially with ATIs Xpress200 chipset. X300SE video built-in, and built-in DVI, all for $90.


 
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