PREDICTION: countdown to failure, Windows 8 RT tablet will be an unmitigated failure.

[tonyfreak215]

I think RT will fail not because the OS is bad, but because of haswell.

With the power envelopes that Intel is advertising, it seems very likely that haswell will work fine in a tablet form factor. Hell current ivy bridge ultra books aren't that far off as is. As such I see no reason why anyone would want an ARM tablet over an x86 one.

I agree. Microsoft should NOT have made an ARM version; they should have work more with Intel and pushed them to do better. Just like Apple did.

Haswell and Atom basically negates the reason for Windows RT and ARM processors.

I really think RT is just going to be a stepping stone. As X86 improves in power consumption, I think RT will be phased out. At least the RT apps will work with 86, so there will be no real losses with the phaseout.

 

[darkewaffle]

I think WinRT has a place. It's just murky right now because of the "app obsession" in the mobile market which is RT's current weakness, but given it's not even officially released yet that's no surprise. Give it a few months and it'll be fine; from the sounds of the reviews a number of big name apps are already present and I think it's highly unlikely that other major players won't join in.

RT essentially offers the "traditional" tablet experience without "locking" you into that one usage model simultaneously. I think of RT:Win8::iOS:OSX, roughly.

To me, RT is for a person who wants a tablet. "Pro" is for someone who wants a laptop/ultrabook but wants to increase the level of portability/flexibility. What they really offer is that they can switch hit relatively fluidly and capably to fulfill either role with one device.

 

[Topweasel]

I agree. Microsoft should NOT have made an ARM version; they should have work more with Intel and pushed them to do better. Just like Apple did.

Haswell and Atom basically negates the reason for Windows RT and ARM processors.

I really think RT is just going to be a stepping stone. As X86 improves in power consumption, I think RT will be phased out. At least the RT apps will work with 86, so there will be no real losses with the phaseout.

That's short sighted and not realistic. RT on its own might be not be the most needed product in the world but for all intents and purposes its the same OS as the phone OS.

Not only that but there is a strong market for consumption tablets, tablets where quickness and responsiveness out weigh needing desktop app support. I have a high powered desktop at work and at home, I have a work and personal laptop. The laptops are never used, I do 98% of my work on the 2 desktops, and I love having a tablet (Nexus 7) for all the random small stuff and web browsing while watching TV. The N7 goes every where I go (always in my pocket). Most people with a Fire, NC or NT, Ipad, N7, Transformer, at least the ones that love them, like them for their simplicity and responsiveness, not wishing to replace them because they can't run Photoshop.

 

[MrX8503]

Disagree with everything you just wrote.... I for one prefer a 16x9 tablet. Widescreen is the preferred aspect ratio for video and games and those are two of the biggest uses for me. I HATE playing any video on the ipad because of how small the screen becomes and most games are designed around the 16x9 format.

On the stand again I hate the ipads stand integrated into the cover.... it does not work well at all and is clumsy as hell (half the time mine falls over with the lightest touch). The surface seems to be a vastly superior implementation and having it always there is awesome. I don't see how its possible that anybody would never use the stand on surface so including whether you have a cover attached or not is a good thing.

Video and games? Do you think MS built this tablet/laptop hybrid for that?

It being a hybrid shows that MS wants this to be a more for work type of device. Videos and games work for you, but MS's purpose for this device throws your usage out the door.

I'm willing to bet most people browse, read, and use apps(non video ones), rather than watching videos.

To use the stand you have to use it on a hard surface, so that limits you. If you could use it everywhere at any time then I would agree with its permanent placement.

It's forced landscape mode with permanent kickstand shows how hard MS wants people to use this laptop style when the device sucks at being a laptop.

 

[darkewaffle]

So don't use the kickstand if you don't like it. Ta da, now it's usable in the same way as every other flat tablet that people have been happily using for two and three years now.

MS isn't forcing anything onto anyone. The whole point is they've unlocked the usage model for a tablet by taking into consideration both tablet and laptop applications in both their form factor and accessories. There's no reason you can't use it just like a tablet if that's all you're interested in though.

 

[Red Storm]

I'm willing to bet most people browse, read, and use apps(non video ones), rather than watching videos.

Games are far and wide the most popular apps, but excluding them for a moment, what were the top 5 free iPad apps back in March?

The Weather Channel for iPad
Netflix
Skype for iPad
Kindle
ABC Player

I think that's a bet you would lose, video is an extremely popular activity on tablets. And this doesn't include YouTube which was/is built in.

Considering the Surface RT gets high CPU usage simply when typing in Word (and reviewers complaining about long application load times), I think the notion that the Surface RT can replace laptops and computers for people who do actual work is laughable. Yeah, someone with an i5 laptop is going to downgrade to a Tegra 3 (or even Atom) and they'll be just as productive.

Netbooks got derided for two things, they were too small and too slow. Sticking Atom in a tablet/hybrid doesn't really solve either of those things. So you attach a keyboard to it and now you've got a 10" Atom netbook. Tell me again, why am I trading my Core i5, 8GB RAM, 180GB SSD ultrabook for this?

Windows 8 is not going to fail because desktops and laptops will still be around. Surface will sell enough to not be a catastrophic failure. What will fail IMHO is the notion that tablets will replace computers/notebooks in the corporate environment.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

MS needed RT to wake Intel the hell up IMHO.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I think WinRT has a place. It's just murky right now because of the "app obsession" in the mobile market which is RT's current weakness, but given it's not even officially released yet that's no surprise. Give it a few months and it'll be fine; from the sounds of the reviews a number of big name apps are already present and I think it's highly unlikely that other major players won't join in.

RT essentially offers the "traditional" tablet experience without "locking" you into that one usage model simultaneously. I think of RT:Win8::iOS:OSX, roughly.

To me, RT is for a person who wants a tablet. "Pro" is for someone who wants a laptop/ultrabook but wants to increase the level of portability/flexibility. What they really offer is that they can switch hit relatively fluidly and capably to fulfill either role with one device.

Windows RT isn't pointless because of iOS and Android, it is pointless because of Windows 8. In Anand's review of Surface he pointed out that Clover Trail tablets running Windows 8 are noticeably faster than Windows RT ones and don't have any penalty in portability or price.

Clover Trail Windows 8 tablets can do everything as good or better than a equivalent Windows RT device plus as an x86 device they will have compatibility with millions of peripherals and apps already out there

 

[blurredvision]

Video and games? Do you think MS built this tablet/laptop hybrid for that?

It being a hybrid shows that MS wants this to be a more for work type of device. Videos and games work for you, but MS's purpose for this device throws your usage out the door.

I'm willing to bet most people browse, read, and use apps(non video ones), rather than watching videos.

To use the stand you have to use it on a hard surface, so that limits you. If you could use it everywhere at any time then I would agree with its permanent placement.

It's forced landscape mode with permanent kickstand shows how hard MS wants people to use this laptop style when the device sucks at being a laptop.

I think your problem is that you continue to look at it as if Microsoft is marketing the Surface RT as a laptop replacement. They are not. I don't even think I've ever heard them mention it as such. It's a tablet through and through, not a hybrid. The Surface Pro? Sure, I'll give that to you, but the RT is not a hybrid.

Anybody buying the Surface RT and expecting it to replace their laptop for anything further than web browsing, email and media consumption obviously haven't done their research.

 

[MrX8503]

Games are far and wide the most popular apps, but excluding them for a moment, what were the top 5 free iPad apps back in March?

The Weather Channel for iPad
Netflix
Skype for iPad
Kindle
ABC Player

I think that's a bet you would lose, video is an extremely popular activity on tablets. And this doesn't include YouTube which was/is built in.

People download, but do they actually use them?
http://www.journalism.org/analysis_report/mobile_activity_news_ranks_high

Videos is ranked 6th. Games is ranked 3rd, but I've never seen a game created that didn't fill the screen. (Aside from non iphone 5 games)

Considering the Surface RT gets high CPU usage simply when typing in Word (and reviewers complaining about long application load times), I think the notion that the Surface RT can replace laptops and computers for people who do actual work is laughable.

That's why it sucks as a laptop. MS must have wanted people to do some minimal work. Why else would they include a keyboard and office apps?

 

[tonyfreak215]

The Office Apps tested were preview builds. A 500+MB update has been rolled out.

Hopefully Anand will update the review once he downloads it.

 

[Hugo Drax]

What I am noticing is every press picture, and review pictures pretty much show it being used in the form of a netbook. And the reviews seem skewed towards a netbook usage model.

Looks like Microsoft is hoping to get the netbook (And maybe you might use it as a tablet) market. But its a market that is not there. Netbook is yesterdays news.

Why would I spend 600 dollars for a Microsoft surface netbook when 600 bucks can get me a generation 4 32GB ipad or 600 bucks gets me a proper laptop.

Microsoft as usual is trying to be the jack of all trades and throw everything but the kitchen sink and hope it sticks, but in the end it just sucks as a netbook and a tablet and it ends up being shunned by the consumer.

 

[Red Storm]

People download, but do they actually use them?
http://www.journalism.org/analysis_report/mobile_activity_news_ranks_high

Videos is ranked 6th. Games is ranked 3rd, but I've never seen a game created that didn't fill the screen. (Aside from non iphone 5 games)

Footnote of the article you linked me to:

Majority of Tablet Users Watch Video on their Device, 1 in Every 4 Viewers Pay to Watch.

That's why it sucks as a laptop. MS must have wanted people to do some minimal work. Why else would they include a keyboard and office apps?

Probably because they know they have to offer something if they can't entice people with their app catalog (yet). As others have said, there's just no point to ARM Windows when you can get x86 Windows in the same package.

I think Microsoft should have never officially announced/released ARM Windows. I get the thinking that they did it to scare Intel into action, but they could have managed that with unofficial leaks and whatnot. The single greatest advantage of Windows is all the applications that already exist, take that away and there is little reason to go with it over the already established Android and iOS.

 

[MrX8503]

The foot note says majority watches video. What does that mean?

Going into the article further, it states ~10% watch videos daily, which still places it 6th.

As for MS releasing windows on an ARM tablet, I agree that it's shitty in that aspect.

 

[quest55720]

I think that MS had to force Intel's hand. How many years has Intel ignored the low power segment with the same terrible atom processors. The only way for W8 to really work was the X86 version with Intel putting out killer low power x86 processors. Intel will finally update that horrible processor next year. You think that would of happened with out windows RT? I don't because Intel would of just pushed the ULV haswell with its huge margins. Now they are forced to bring out a real low margin low power x86 processor that is not a dog. I think in a few years the only android tablets will be the ultra low end subsidized tablets like the fire. Apple and MS will be going toe to toe in the tablet market. Once Intel gets its act together apple can kiss its insane margins good bye. If 2 tablets are about the same specs but 1 can run millions of legacy programs we know who the winner will be.

 

[darkewaffle]

If 2 tablets are about the same specs but 1 can run millions of legacy programs we know who the winner will be.

Probably the one with the round corners and a fruit logo

 

[s44]

MS isn't forcing anything onto anyone. The whole point is they've unlocked the usage model for a tablet by taking into consideration both tablet and laptop applications in both their form factor and accessories.

But they've done it in a worse way than Asus.

 

[BladeVenom]

Video and games? Do you think MS built this tablet/laptop hybrid for that?

No, but they should have. Angry Birds alone was downloaded a billion times.

 

[boomhower]

After looking at some of the reviews I think it's going to do just fine. I would take one over an Android tablet. It's not going to blow away iPad sales but think it will do plenty to keep it around for a sequel. I really don't see it being another Zune as long as they don't screw it up.

 

[Hugo Drax]

After looking at some of the reviews I think it's going to do just fine. I would take one over an Android tablet. It's not going to blow away iPad sales but think it will do plenty to keep it around for a sequel. I really don't see it being another Zune as long as they don't screw it up.

IT's gonna be another Zune. And of course Microsoft hobbles Office with a stupid Non commercial clause, so if you buy one to do work you have to pay on top of the hardware your just purchase a license for office. IF this is your first shot in the mobile market why complicate things with stupid license restrictions. And the weird thing is RT has a "Desktop" mode like Windows 7 but it only exists for the purpose of running office and the UI for office is "Desktop UI shoehorned into tablet" with windows etc.. its not a metro UI. No developers can write to this "Desktop environment" This is why they push the landscape mode and keyboard, because it actually goes into traditional desktop mode when you use office.




http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/now-that-its-here-is-there-a-place-for-windows-rt/

But I think a much wider selection of users will be ill-served by Windows RT. While I think it's likely that developers will produce Windows Store apps, I don't know how quickly they will do so, or how well: Google Play, the Android store, is still substantially bereft of high quality tablet applications, even with many millions of devices already in users' hands. Without a thriving store, Windows RT is just too limited to recommend.

 

[rchiu]

It's all going to come down to app support for Windows RT to succeed or fail. As of now, the app support is pretty pathetic.

MS is not making the decision to develop app for RT easy. Let say you are a MS app developer, and you have limited time. Would you develop something for RT which doesn't have that many users, or Windows 8 which already has millions and millions of users already out there?

I am in the market for a new tablet. I love the idea of having office, but the complete lack of app support made me decided to go another route.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

It's all going to come down to app support for Windows RT to succeed or fail. As of now, the app support is pretty pathetic.

MS is not making the decision to develop app for RT easy. Let say you are a MS app developer, and you have limited time. Would you develop something for RT which doesn't have that many users, or Windows 8 which already has millions and millions of users already out there?

I am in the market for a new tablet. I love the idea of having office, but the complete lack of app support made me decided to go another route.

RT and 8 apps are one in the same.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

RT and 8 apps are one in the same.

Thats the messed up part. Not all of them are

You can write native code for Metro apps in wich case you need to target a specific architecture.

 

[MrX8503]

RT and 8 apps are one in the same.

And thus the confusion begins....

 

[darkewaffle]

I actually question how much confusion that will actually cause. I think for most consumers, the idea of "tablet" simply goes hand in hand with the idea of an "app store" so much so that the usage model (at least as far as how you 'get stuff' goes) is already defined.

It will somewhat depend on the expectations created by marketing and in-store employees but I wonder how many people would pick up a WinRT tablet and say "Hey, Windows, I can put my other stuff on here" versus "Hey, a tablet, what's on the app store?"