PREDICTION: countdown to failure, Windows 8 RT tablet will be an unmitigated failure.

[KeithTalent]

I don't know, it could suck in the layman.

Was watching the debate with the wife last night and that Surface commercial came up. She was sucked in and said it looked awesome and now she wants one. It looks different and that keyboard looks pretty darn good at first blush.

KT

 

[darkewaffle]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6387/asus-vivotab-rt-review

AT review on the Asus VivoTab RT, somewhat related.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Why so much secrecy over allowing reviewers to testdrive one of these surface devices? It is like one of those studio movies that they do not send out for reviewers ahead of release date.

 

[s44]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6387/asus-vivotab-rt-review

AT review on the Asus VivoTab RT, somewhat related.

At price parity (which is the current state of things), why would anyone get the Surface instead of this?

Without the dock/keyboard, the Surface is bulkier. With the dock/keyboard, the Surface gets absolutely slaughtered in battery life. So...

 

[darkewaffle]

At price parity (which is the current state of things), why would anyone get the Surface instead of this?

Without the dock/keyboard, the Surface is bulkier. With the dock/keyboard, the Surface gets absolutely slaughtered in battery life. So...

Off hand I would guess the Microsoft name, first-party support, and superior device-in-hand feel.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Off hand I would guess the Microsoft name, first-party support, and superior device-in-hand feel.

DO we know it's superior in feel?

They only really fixed the registry hack that was on Consumer Preview to Release Preview, correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't really been actively going against 3rd party devs for it.

Right, if anything I would think that they are going to embrace people who come up with creative tweaks that might make people actually jump on board with Win8. People who otherwise would not switch from what they have now.

 

[cmdrdredd]

double

 

[s44]

DO we know it's superior in feel?

My Prime feels really quite good. The Vivo is the same construction but lighter, and the Surface is significantly heavier. The magic build bonus had better be pretty huge to overcome the fact that weight will make holding it in hand a pain...

 

[cmdrdredd]

My Prime feels really quite good. The Vivo is the same construction but lighter, and the Surface is significantly heavier. The magic build bonus had better be pretty huge to overcome the fact that weight will make holding it in hand a pain...

I'm happy with my Infinity but if it's not inside a case the edges are tapered down pretty much to a point (not sharp). Just a little difficult to hold on to until you are used to it.

 

[Dominato3r]

Off hand I would guess the Microsoft name, first-party support, and superior device-in-hand feel.

Firsty party support is kind of a given for everyone, since MS updates and supports the software for every PC, vs the Android setup of the OEM passing aoftware updates.

 

[jpeyton]

I doubt it will fail. But it certainly won't gain widespread adoption if the apps aren't there.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Firsty party support is kind of a given for everyone, since MS updates and supports the software for every PC, vs the Android setup of the OEM passing aoftware updates.

The big benefit of Android is you can root it and then you have numerous options for the OS. It's all still android but the tweaks can improve performance by quite a lot.

I doubt it will fail. But it certainly won't gain widespread adoption if the apps aren't there.

This is also very true. Since it cannot run x86 software you won't be hooking up an external drive and installing your normal utilities and work related programs. You will rely on an app store and unfortunately for Microsoft, Google and Apple are just miles ahead. The only thing that might save it in time is the fact that any apps made for the RT will work across all flavors of Windows 8. So you can gain exposure to desktop users, laptop users, Surface and Surface pro users (WIndows 8 RT and Windows 8 Pro respectively). If it goes as I think, Microsoft will include Metro support inside the next Xbox system so that you can gain an even larger audience.

If this happens and the apps come pouring in, I'll jump in. If not I'll just stick to Android with no loss to me.

 

[ultimatebob]

It Ballmer somehow survived the failure of the Zune, he'll survive the failure of the Surface RT as well.

 

[podspi]

So... reviews are now out, and generally pretty positive.

Honestly, I thought WinRT had a chance before the reviews, and the initial reviews were a lot more positive than I expected. While I can't wait to play with the Surface to see what it is like, I think I will pass on it and either pick up a proper RT machine with dock (like the Asus) or just skip RT entirely and go with a Win 8 convertible.

 

[Hugo Drax]

From the anandtech review it seems that the surface is pretty much meant to be used in landscape mode, and that the keyboard is pretty much a must have.
Make sense, if used in landscape and 16x9 the onscreen keyboard would take up too much real estate.

This sounds more like a net book with an infusion of tablet than an actual iPad competitor.

The fact that just writing using word causes the CPU to go up to the 50 percent range is a bit concerning.

Looks like a big riskof trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none situation.

 

[MrX8503]

It looks like MS intended this device to be used in one orientation: landscape.

The problem I see with this device, which I've said from the beginning is that its not a great laptop nor a great tablet.

 

[blurredvision]

From the anandtech review it seems that the surface is pretty much meant to be used in landscape mode, and that the keyboard is pretty much a must have.
Make sense, if used in landscape and 16x9 the onscreen keyboard would take up too much real estate.

How often are you actually typing on a tablet though? I don't really see Microsoft as pitching this as a laptop replacement, simply a tablet that can give you some functionality of a laptop if in a pinch.

 

[blurredvision]

The problem I see with this device, which I've said from the beginning is that its not a great laptop nor a great tablet.

It's not a great laptop because it's not a laptop. However, I'd be interested in hearing why you don't think it makes a great tablet. From a completely unbiased view, it looks to be just as good as the other tablets on the market, if not better in many areas.

 

[amdhunter]

I agree with the topic title. I think there is going to be a huge backlash when regular non-technical users get their hands on it.

 

[MrX8503]

It's not a great laptop because it's not a laptop. However, I'd be interested in hearing why you don't think it makes a great tablet. From a completely unbiased view, it looks to be just as good as the other tablets on the market, if not better in many areas.

It's not a good tablet because MS built it mainly for landscape mode. This is where the aspect ratio of the screen is important.

The tablet is a 10"+ 16:9 screen. It's vertical space is small in landscape and the screen is super tall/skinny in portrait. Overall an idiotic aspect ratio for a tablet.

The only reason I see why MS went with 16:9 is to divide the screen into 3rds for apps and multi tasking. This sounds like a good idea, but you're forced to use it in landscape mode if you want the best UX.

Are there any 16:9 tablets that are 10"+? Most are 16:10, which makes more sense.

Also the kick stand is a poor design choice. MS should have integrated it into the cover, not the device itself. Here's why:

You're left with the kick stand whether you need it or not. It's taking up chassis space where it could have benefited other components.

 

[quest55720]

It seemed that most site really liked the hardware except the under powered old tegra 3. That makes me more excited for the pro. Thinking about it if the pro is not till early next year be best to wait for a haswell refresh that I could not imagine would be to far away.

Reading about windows RT not as bad as thought it would be. If it was 399.99 with cover I might bite to try out. Especially if I could by app for RT and would work on WP8. At basically 600+ dollars with cover way over priced.

Opps wrong thread ment for the surface review thread.

I think windows RT will be a failure but that will be cause of pricing. There is nothing about the platform that justifies premium pricing. It is a shame because it sounds like a step up from android tablet platform.

 

[Mopetar]

The only reason I see why MS went with 16:9 is to divide the screen into 3rds for apps and multi tasking. This sounds like a good idea, but you're forced to use it in landscape mode if you want the best UX.

For a 10" tablet I'd say the best UX for almost any application is already landscape. Really, the only things I could care to use a 10" tablet for vertically are reading PDFs, reading comics, and perhaps document editing. Essentially all tasks that revolve around working with a documents with a fixed page size where I want to see that page as a whole.

Otherwise, I've found that landscape is superior for almost every other task. I'd agree with you that 16:10 would probably have made for a better aspect ratio for precisely that reason. That and it just makes the device feel more balanced.

You're left with the kick stand whether you need it or not. It's taking up chassis space where it could have benefited other components.

I almost think that they designed this thing to be used more like a notebook with their keyboard cover. In that case it really needs the kickstand. Also, it doesn't take up that much space, so I really don't know if leaving it out would have opened the door to additional features. Seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

[openwheel]

I think the question is, do people buy tablets as an extension of their smartphone, or as an extension of their pc ?

So far I'd say the bigger screen companion to a smartphone is a huge market for Apple and Android.

Yet to be seen is if people want a smaller screen tablet companion for their laptop.

Of course, Microsoft wants people to get all three from them but they are WAY behind in the phone market, obviously.

Why not both? The Windows 8 Tablets are extensions of both smartphone and PC. The best logical upgrade. The iPad and Android tablets simply don't cut it as productive devices. Adding a S-Pen doesn't qualify as "productive" either.

 

[arod]

It's not a good tablet because MS built it mainly for landscape mode. This is where the aspect ratio of the screen is important.

The tablet is a 10"+ 16:9 screen. It's vertical space is small in landscape and the screen is super tall/skinny in portrait. Overall an idiotic aspect ratio for a tablet.

The only reason I see why MS went with 16:9 is to divide the screen into 3rds for apps and multi tasking. This sounds like a good idea, but you're forced to use it in landscape mode if you want the best UX.

Are there any 16:9 tablets that are 10"+? Most are 16:10, which makes more sense.

Also the kick stand is a poor design choice. MS should have integrated it into the cover, not the device itself. Here's why:

You're left with the kick stand whether you need it or not. It's taking up chassis space where it could have benefited other components.

Disagree with everything you just wrote.... I for one prefer a 16x9 tablet. Widescreen is the preferred aspect ratio for video and games and those are two of the biggest uses for me. I HATE playing any video on the ipad because of how small the screen becomes and most games are designed around the 16x9 format.

On the stand again I hate the ipads stand integrated into the cover.... it does not work well at all and is clumsy as hell (half the time mine falls over with the lightest touch). The surface seems to be a vastly superior implementation and having it always there is awesome. I don't see how its possible that anybody would never use the stand on surface so including whether you have a cover attached or not is a good thing.

 

[podspi]

I agree with the topic title. I think there is going to be a huge backlash when regular non-technical users get their hands on it.

I really, really disagree. The only people I've heard complaining about the new interface are techies who are intimately familiar with the existing interface.

As I've said in other threads, to my own personal surprise, every non-technical person I've shown the Win8 CP to has been excited for the upgrade. Most people think it is 'cool', and I don't think the 'charms' concept is too complicated after an hour or so.


The thing most 'techies' are missing is that as nice as the current Windows UI is for productivity, most people find it boring and unexciting. They don't necessarily like it, it is just familiar.

Edit: I do think one downside currently is that people WILL get confused over app compatibility. I'm just not sure how much that actually matters. Most people use the browser, office, iTunes. All of those things Surface (and WinRT) can do built-in.