PREDICTION: Microsoft will lose hard on this generation.

[smackababy]

Well...it's not like this is new for Microsoft. They've been doing this sort of thing for years. Basically they've taken their OS/PC stance and added it to their console stance (since they want to act like it's a PC). They think because they dominate the PC world that this will work the same way.

I'm by no means a MS hater, but they are not exactly consumer friendly or concerned about what people think. Look at how they are pushing Windows 8. They are used to their product being out there and "on systems by default" which lends to automatic adoption of whatever they throw at you.

To be fair, consumers aren't exactly the smartest when it comes to friendly innovation. "We want an easier to use PC." MS develops an easy to use interface that is touch compatible. "Omg not start button! I have to learn something new now? Omg, I hate Windows. I am going to Mac OS and learning that instead." or "Omg I am not smart enough to not click that mileycyruspornvideo.exe I downloaded from sketchystuff.com. What kind of garbage is this MS? You are asking me if I really want to open this file and listing what it is trying to change? You are the worst company ever!"

 

[purbeast0]

To be fair, consumers aren't exactly the smartest when it comes to friendly innovation. "We want an easier to use PC." MS develops an easy to use interface that is touch compatible. "Omg not start button! I have to learn something new now? Omg, I hate Windows. I am going to Mac OS and learning that instead." or "Omg I am not smart enough to not click that mileycyruspornvideo.exe I downloaded from sketchystuff.com. What kind of garbage is this MS? You are asking me if I really want to open this file and listing what it is trying to change? You are the worst company ever!"

the problem is desktops/laptops aren't tablets. win8 looks like a tablet os. if i wanted a tablet, i'd get one not a laptop.

i was recently laptop shopping and saw tons of laptops with win8 on it and it totally turned me off of the laptop itself. the ones that had the touch screens win8 was kinda neat, but again, i don't want my laptop to be tablet.

ended up getting a specific laptop though because it was for hackintosh'ing, and it came with win8 and win7. i put osx and win7 on it and have no want/need to put win8 on it.

 

[smackababy]

the problem is desktops/laptops aren't tablets. win8 looks like a tablet os. if i wanted a tablet, i'd get one not a laptop.

i was recently laptop shopping and saw tons of laptops with win8 on it and it totally turned me off of the laptop itself. the ones that had the touch screens win8 was kinda neat, but again, i don't want my laptop to be tablet.

ended up getting a specific laptop though because it was for hackintosh'ing, and it came with win8 and win7. i put osx and win7 on it and have no want/need to put win8 on it.

Have you used Windows 8 though? The desktop mode is almost the same. Windows 8 is a better OS under the hood than Windows 7. The Metro UI can be offputting, but for average consumers, it couldn't be easier. They are just stupid and refuse change, whether it is good or bad.

 

[Tweak155]

It actually would have made more sense if it required an internet connection 100% of the time. At least they could have spun that in a way that benefited the consumer. They could have explained that:

1) They understand that Xbox ONE will not be a product for everyone, but they hope to see the audience expand as broadband internet becomes widely available.

2) Games will be designed specifically around their cloud infrastructure offloading AI and other processing.

3) Your saved games and game library are stored in the cloud and can be accessed from any ONE you're signed into.

4) You can deactivate your game license and sell the physical disk to anyone you want at retail or personally (there could be an online portal where people could verify the status of the license rather than restricting it to "participating retailers.")

5) Day 1 digital downloads will sell for $10 less than retail versions.

Soooo many things they could have done to use the "always on" nature of the system to their advantage instead. But instead they gave us a nanny state DRM, and a used game policy so confusing and convoluted nobody can even figure out how it works. Then then bring out their big executives on stage to blow smoke up our asses and basically say "hey this is great for everyone!"

Oh hey this is great for everyone? Good I was worried - all I needed.

Thanks again!

 

[ImpulsE69]

Have you used Windows 8 though? The desktop mode is almost the same. Windows 8 is a better OS under the hood than Windows 7. The Metro UI can be offputting, but for average consumers, it couldn't be easier. They are just stupid and refuse change, whether it is good or bad.

I don't disagree, but remember change needs to be in such a manner that the consumer actually believes it benefits them, otherwise they WILL oppose it. If someone does not think it's necessary to remove the start button because there was nothing wrong with it in the first place, and the new method seems unnecessarily convoluted, then who is right? The company who made the unnecessary change or the consumer who doesn't see value in the new way?

This is very similar to what MS is pushing with the Xbox 1. They've given no real reasons their decisions benefit the consumer who actually spends the money on the product. This isn't a PC that just comes with an OS, this is an entertainment item. It's not the same playing field as a PC.

 

[purbeast0]

Have you used Windows 8 though? The desktop mode is almost the same. Windows 8 is a better OS under the hood than Windows 7. The Metro UI can be offputting, but for average consumers, it couldn't be easier. They are just stupid and refuse change, whether it is good or bad.

my usage of it is at the store when demo'ing laptops and that is it. win7 works just fine for me and there is no reason i would want to change to anything else at the moment. osx + win7 is all i need right now.

ive also read you basically need to hack your registry to turn off uac on win8.

 

[Tweak155]

I don't disagree, but remember change needs to be in such a manner that the consumer actually believes it benefits them, otherwise they WILL oppose it. If someone does not think it's necessary to remove the start button because there was nothing wrong with it in the first place, and the new method seems unnecessarily convoluted, then who is right? The company who made the unnecessary change or the consumer who doesn't see value in the new way?

This is very similar to what MS is pushing with the Xbox 1. They've given no real reasons their decisions benefit the consumer who actually spends the money on the product. This isn't a PC that just comes with an OS, this is an entertainment item. It's not the same playing field as a PC.

This is the first post I've come across (outside of a few I've posted ) where the poster gets economics, and overall success of ANYTHING.

You can't sell one specific something to a consumer that they don't want. The only possibility is to bundle it with other things they do want, which is what we have here. But you're losing sales. This is EXACTLY the problem. You've added something the consumer DOESN'T want. It isn't that they don't care (I.E no impact), but they very much do not want it.

So let's picture the gaming market. This includes anyone who might possibly game, regardless of game / system / etc. The company interested in earning profit from that market instantly has to start cutting gamers from their cash flow, because you can't make a product that makes EVERYONE happy, it is not possible. So your goal should be to make as many consumers happy as possible. As you add features people do not like, you shrink your market. As you keep adding, you keep shrinking.

This particular addition is NOT required and thus is self mutliation of your own market.

However MS / publishers focus is not on the consumer with this decision, it is on money. And unfortunately when you *only* focus on money, you lose sight of what really benefits you.

 

[BoberFett]

To be fair, consumers aren't exactly the smartest when it comes to friendly innovation. "We want an easier to use PC." MS develops an easy to use interface that is touch compatible. "Omg not start button! I have to learn something new now? Omg, I hate Windows. I am going to Mac OS and learning that instead." or "Omg I am not smart enough to not click that mileycyruspornvideo.exe I downloaded from sketchystuff.com. What kind of garbage is this MS? You are asking me if I really want to open this file and listing what it is trying to change? You are the worst company ever!"

Nobody asked for a touch interface on the desktop. Real work is still done using a mouse and keyboard.

You're quite the little MS lackey, aren't you?

 

[dpodblood]

yup i agree with pretty much everything you said. #4 is a really good idea too.

but now that i think about it, forza DID actually show off some cloud stuff with the favatar or whatever they called it. at least i THINK that was the cloud where the data was stored.

Actually Forza is the one game they showed us at the show that really interested me. I am a racing fan, but have never been big into Forza. They stuff they showed with the cloud, and how you "drivatar" (terrible) term is really cool, and will actually change how the game is played. Most of the other games they showed were just prettier versions of games we already have. At least with Forza they showed one way that the next gen will allow innovation beyond pushing more pixels or upping the framerate.

 

[dpodblood]

They are trying to do pretty much 1,2 and 3. The problem is they don't have a system for 4 and 5 that consumers actually want. They also don't set the prices for games, so publishers really won't budge from the $60 price point unless MS removes their licensing fees (which is the only thing that makes them money from game sales).

The cloud stuff should offer some good things, if developers use it. The problem is, it will most likely be first party and exclusive only titles that take advantage of it. Why would CoD use something on Xbox they can't use on PS4? Unless MS pays developers to take advantage of it, it might not have as large and impact as MS wants.

They try to do 1, 2, and 3, but they do such a terrible dishonest way of messaging that it that the consumers can't understand what they're trying to say and don't see the benefit of what they're offering.

And the problem with the $60 price point is the retailers not the publishers (Gamestop in particular). It's well known that Gamestop has threatened to stop putting products on shelves if digital downloads are the same price, because then they will loose a big chunk of business. However we know the $50 price point is do-able because that's what 90% of PC games launch at. On PSN we are also starting to see games with a small price difference between digital and retail prices.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Where I am right now when there are big storms or hurricanes, I could lose internet access. And if a hurricane passes by, lose it for a week or more.

So now that 500 dollar product becomes a door stop. Now I know why the call it Xbox "One" because you can only play for one day if you do not get permission from Microsoft to use it every day.

Another note. PS4 I do not have to pay for the multiplayer package if I want to use it only for single player and to watch Netflix and other types of apps.

Microsoft forces you to pay 60 dollars a year just to be allowed to use Netflix, like it or not.

Another positive for Sony. They are working to get Independents and smaller publishers on board with PS4 which means more unique games VS Xbox one(day)

 

[AznAnarchy99]

this thread is where we will see the fanboys of the different sides come out!!

As a casual gamer, I feel like as of right now PS4 has the edge. I didnt own the last generation but I was on the Xbox side. Not sure if I'll own this generation either but I'll probably wait until the dust has settled before choosing.

 

[dpodblood]

I posted this over in the official ONE thread, but interesting for anyone who hasn't already read it:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

Sounds like you will be able to loan games (even digital games) to anyone on your "family" list. They do not have to be in the same household or even in the same geographic region. If true this could actually be a huge benefit/selling point to gamers, and MS needs to clarify and push this message out to everyone they can as fast as possible. On the other hand if you can simply loan games out like this isn't it going to piss publishers off?

 

[smackababy]

I posted this over in the official ONE thread, but interesting for anyone who hasn't already read it:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/

Sounds like you will be able to loan games (even digital games) to anyone on your "family" list. They do not have to be in the same household or even in the same geographic region. If true this could actually be a huge benefit/selling point to gamers, and MS needs to clarify and push this message out to everyone they can as fast as possible. On the other hand if you can simply loan games out like this isn't it going to piss publishers off?

Some of the information is valid, but most of the article is PR speak and filled with fallacies. Not that that will matter, because nobody cares about any of that.

Quite a few of my friends saw the announcement Sony made about "no DRM" on the PS4 and then saw the "backtrack" Sony did when they said it is up to the publishers, and immediately jumped to "oh, there is DRM after all. Sony is pretty much doing what MS is doing, just different."

 

[ImpulsE69]

I disagree. What MS is doing is completely different than what Sony is. I know you keep wanting to believe and spin it that it's the same, but it isn't. While YES publishers can put keys on games and tie them to your account, MS's DRM goes WAY beyond that. Trying to argue it differently is just being naive.

 

[AMDZen]

Replaceable/upgradable HDD
Region Free
$100 cheaper
Doesn't need to be online at all, much less phone home every 24 hours
Eye is an option, Kinect is shoved down your throat
Rentals available on one, not the other

Clearly identical options

 

[exdeath]

We need a new term. This isn't even DRM, its like Consumer Property Management or Consumer Rights Invalidation.

Its one thing to prevent pirating, this goes FAR beyond piracy. Its not even DRM anymore.

Got sold on non obtrusive DRM to control pirating, once you accepted that, they took it further (give an inch they take a mile) to where you the purchaser dont even own the game anymore.

 

[lupi]

Lol @ that article. Yeah, it could be great, could be being the key term as they said exactly zero hard details about the program.

And I sill get a good lulz at those trying to make claims about ps4 having similar drm, or saying it will eventually, to make the one seem not so bad.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Articles like this is not helping Microsofts cause. Eventually things like this spread word of mouth and end up in the back of peoples mind. Microsoft needs to invest in PR.

New Xbox by NSA partner Microsoft will watch you 24/7

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/07/n...r-microsoft-will-watch-you-247/#ixzz2W2I2dQ2R


NSA Domestic Spying Program Makes Xbox One Even Scarier

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...c-spying-program-makes-xbox-one-even-scarier/




PS4's Price And Policies Humiliate Microsoft's Xbox One At E3

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...policies-humiliate-microsofts-xbox-one-at-e3/

 

[cmdrdredd]

It actually would have made more sense if it required an internet connection 100% of the time. At least they could have spun that in a way that benefited the consumer. They could have explained that:

1) They understand that Xbox ONE will not be a product for everyone, but they hope to see the audience expand as broadband internet becomes widely available.

2) Games will be designed specifically around their cloud infrastructure offloading AI and other processing.

3) Your saved games and game library are stored in the cloud and can be accessed from any ONE you're signed into.

4) You can deactivate your game license and sell the physical disk to anyone you want at retail or personally (there could be an online portal where people could verify the status of the license rather than restricting it to "participating retailers.")

5) Day 1 digital downloads will sell for $10 less than retail versions.

Soooo many things they could have done to use the "always on" nature of the system to their advantage instead. But instead they gave us a nanny state DRM, and a used game policy so confusing and convoluted nobody can even figure out how it works. Then then bring out their big executives on stage to blow smoke up our asses and basically say "hey this is great for everyone!"

Don't kid yourself... no on the fly AI calculations will be offloaded to the internet. AI needs to be instantly responsive, the internet has something called latency and lag.

With MS employees telling people who don't want to go online or who can't to just use an Xbox 360, it's getting pretty silly.

The only exception is when you are playing an MMO and you just have a client.

 

[badb0y]

Some of the information is valid, but most of the article is PR speak and filled with fallacies. Not that that will matter, because nobody cares about any of that.

Quite a few of my friends saw the announcement Sony made about "no DRM" on the PS4 and then saw the "backtrack" Sony did when they said it is up to the publishers, and immediately jumped to "oh, there is DRM after all. Sony is pretty much doing what MS is doing, just different."

Nope
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...lationship-with-the-consumer-we-wont-dictate/

 

[dpodblood]

Some of the information is valid, but most of the article is PR speak and filled with fallacies. Not that that will matter, because nobody cares about any of that.

Quite a few of my friends saw the announcement Sony made about "no DRM" on the PS4 and then saw the "backtrack" Sony did when they said it is up to the publishers, and immediately jumped to "oh, there is DRM after all. Sony is pretty much doing what MS is doing, just different."

I hate it when people claim Sony is backtracking on their statements. They aren't. Things are remaining exactly as they were with the Ps3. If publishers want to add online passes or other DRM it's their choice just as it is in the current generation.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Nope
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...lationship-with-the-consumer-we-wont-dictate/

In other words when they said "NO New DRM" they were saying "things will remain as they are on the PS3"

 

[American Gunner]

There's also this:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194150/Further_clarification_on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php

 

[Anubis]

In other words when they said "NO New DRM" they were saying "things will remain as they are on the PS3"

which is perfectly fine

if MS had said that there would be no issue