Prescott- AT calls it a flop??

[nemesismk2]

Ofcourse the Prescott is a flop, Intel even named it after an overweight british politican and their cpu performs like it too!

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: PetNorth

Originally posted by: joe2004
I think everybody that are claiming that Prescott is bad are missreading. Effortless overclock to 3.75 GHz on default voltage.

Thats a 14% OC for 3,2... Is that great?

32% on a 2.8

 

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: reever

Last time I checked my ambient case temp was lucky to be above 20C

Last time I checked my house has heat, and anybody elses house most likely also has, which would bring the ambient temps well above 20C, not to mention the many heat generating parts on a motherboard

Ambient temp right now is 15C in my house... Then again, that's some 25C above what it is outside right now so that could play a factor....

 

[jpetermann]

Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

 

[PetNorth]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: PetNorth

Originally posted by: joe2004
I think everybody that are claiming that Prescott is bad are missreading. Effortless overclock to 3.75 GHz on default voltage.

Thats a 14% OC for 3,2... Is that great?

32% on a 2.8

It would be 25%. And if Intel sells a 3.2 as a 2.4 would be a 36%.

So, this isn't the point, the point is that you must look at OC top cpu available. And it is 14% on a 3.2 and even poorer on a 3.4, only 9% OC. And with insupportable hot and noise.

Today, very very veeeeeery bad solution Prescott. Lamentable.

 

[klah]

Is there a single review testing the OC of a retail Prescott?

Seeing a hand-picked engineering sample sent to a site for review running at 4GHz is not quite enough to convince me to dump my 2.6C just yet.

 

[sellmen]

An article projecting overclocking heat dissipation:

Overclockers.com

Ouch. I would like to see people overclock this CPU with reasonable air cooling. Unlike Northwoods, its obvious that the default cooler isn't going to take you anywhere; you'll need a $50 cooler with a LOUD fan to have a chance.

 

[THUGSROOK]

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...
Using Prescott as a space heater

nice article / comparison

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...
Using Prescott as a space heater

nice article / comparison

Indeed, thanks PJ :beer: that confirmed my thinking that near silent overclocking on air isn't going to happen with this CPU in it's present incarnation. I'm looking forward to seeing how the OEM's deal with the situation, anyone have insight or info on their plans?

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: sellmen
An article projecting overclocking heat dissipation:
Overclockers.com
Ouch. I would like to see people overclock this CPU with reasonable air cooling. Unlike Northwoods, its obvious that the default cooler isn't going to take you anywhere; you'll need a $50 cooler with a LOUD fan to have a chance.

Nah, once the BTX boards and cases hit the scene we'll see the new layout and fan spec help quiet the higher airflow. You can improve airflow by spinning the fan blades faster or by increasing the number of blades. (Edit: Actually you can increase it by changing the blade pitch, too. ) The increased number of blades will also help quiet the airflow. Add in the layout which is done to put the hot spots on top of the board, in direct airflow, and your case will not be near as hot as with ATX. I see BTX as a big improvement.

Then again I like this initial Prescott and can only get excited thinking about what will happen when Intel moves to a cooler CPU revision by using 10-12 metal layers in the core over the current 7 layers. Don't forget how adding a few to TBred-A to get TBred-B made a huge difference. I bet Intel's 90nm process is suffering from some sort of newly discovered electromagnetic interference due to the increase in transistor density coupled to using strained silicon...

 

[jpetermann]

I bet Intel's 90nm process is suffering from some sort of newly discovered electromagnetic interference due to the increase in transistor density coupled to using strained silicon...

Um... Yeah, what he said... hehehe


PJ

 

[Dustswirl]

maybe we'll see heatsinks with heatpipes beeing stock intel fans bundled with new CPUs like the SP94...

 

[Soulkeeper]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...
Using Prescott as a space heater

nice article / comparison

yeah the sp-94 impressed me in that review
i'm glad i got it

also i noticed they used the same motherboard i had and my fan is 110cfm so i should be alright hehehe


i second the good find remark

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Ah, BTX, that sounds like the OEM's answer to cooling the Prescott I was searching for, thanx MadRat.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Ah, BTX, that sounds like the OEM's answer to cooling the Prescott I was searching for, thanx MadRat.

All BTX can do is provide better airflow to the processor. The cooler review linked above has the prescott outside a case - you aren't going to get a better situation than that in any case, BTX or not. Even outside a case, the Intel cooler couldn't keep the Prescott under 70 degrees C load...and the temperature was still rising...

Are OEMs going to include a $50 SP-94 w/ a 80 CFM fan in every computer? What happens when prescott scales to 3.6+ GHZ and heat dissipation further increases? The review above was only for the 3.2GHZ model.

 

[lookin4dlz]

Here's the link Soulkeeper:
VR-Zone Intel Pentium 4 Prescott Review
They used Scythe's Kamakaze cooler $23.99 at Newegg

 

[Dustswirl]

How bout a bundeled Peltier solution?

maybe there's some power solution that current MBs don't have or have it partially (different I;V;R etc) and/or a "Cool and quiet" version for intel hell i don't think intel's engineers just threw the CPU in the market without a future-prrof-ready "plan"!

or did they?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Ah, BTX, that sounds like the OEM's answer to cooling the Prescott I was searching for, thanx MadRat.

All BTX can do is provide better airflow to the processor. The cooler review linked above has the prescott outside a case - you aren't going to get a better situation than that in any case, BTX or not. Even outside a case, the Intel cooler couldn't keep the Prescott under 70 degrees C load...and the temperature was still rising...

Are OEMs going to include a $50 SP-94 w/ a 80 CFM fan in every computer? What happens when prescott scales to 3.6+ GHZ and heat dissipation further increases? The review above was only for the 3.2GHZ model.

I can assure you Intel and their partners like Dell have already worked all this out They didn't invest heavily in the developement and production of this micrprocessor to have it be a complete failure because of an oversite as monumental as not addressing the heat issues associated with it. MadRat's point about BTX makes perfect sense to me though and makes Intel's hard push for it seem logical, because that way, by the time the Prescott scales to the point where it would require extreme air cooling like what PJ used, they will have a new revision that produces less heat and be putting it in BTX systems that further improve the situation. I simply can't except the present conjecture floating around that would point to Intel having so gravely miscaculated that they have produced a CPU they can't mass produce for Dell and HP without obnoxiously loud and/or extreme cooling

 

[clarkey01]

Im new to this forum business so bare with me ...

Iv sat back and read from this forum for months, Intel fan boys slating A64 saying "its not needed" & "pointless n slow", " WAIT FOR PRESCOTT"....

Now the fan boys after seeing Prescott?s performance are like " ermmmm....give it a while , 4ghz and it be sorted". I feel the need to point out that Intel is a far bigger and far more loaded company then AMD is, yet its struggling to deliver, perhaps this is another early p4 scenario which wont smooth out until speeds ramp up which the fan boys are declaring, but I don?t think this is the case, the power consumption and heat generated by Prescott is just silly, unless all Intel users house there chips in a freezer I cant see it running at anything suitable.

I switched to AMD when my 1.5 p4 got crushed by a 1ghz althon and the althon was a HELL of a lot cheaper back in the day . I really feel for AMD, they really push themselves to make innovations & don?t take short cuts, Intel just rely on marketing and back hander?s , Prescott will bring in the money, but it?s a flop , it has NOTHING on the a64 ?.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Ah, BTX, that sounds like the OEM's answer to cooling the Prescott I was searching for, thanx MadRat.

All BTX can do is provide better airflow to the processor. The cooler review linked above has the prescott outside a case - you aren't going to get a better situation than that in any case, BTX or not. Even outside a case, the Intel cooler couldn't keep the Prescott under 70 degrees C load...and the temperature was still rising...

Are OEMs going to include a $50 SP-94 w/ a 80 CFM fan in every computer? What happens when prescott scales to 3.6+ GHZ and heat dissipation further increases? The review above was only for the 3.2GHZ model.

I can assure you Intel and their partners like Dell have already worked all this out They didn't invest heavily in the developement and production of this micrprocessor to have it be a complete failure because of an oversite as monumental as not addressing the heat issues associated with it. MadRat's point about BTX makes perfect sense to me though and makes Intel's hard push for it seem logical, because that way, by the time the Prescott scales to the point where it would require extreme air cooling like what PJ used, they will have a new revision that produces less heat and be putting it in BTX systems that further improve the situation. I simply can't except the present conjecture floating around that would point to Intel having so gravely miscaculated that they have produced a CPU they can't mass produce for Dell and HP without obnoxiously loud and/or extreme cooling

I don't see the heat dissipation issue as an "oversight." Intel clearly wasn't expecting this hot a processor; there is a reason they have had to redefine motherboard power specs and increase the power dissipation numbers, and there is a reason Prescott was delayed 6 months.

I doubt Intel anticipated current leakage being this much of a problem. Somehow, I don't see this heat issue dissapearing as intel scales upward.

 

[Soulkeeper]

Originally posted by: lookin4dlz
Here's the link Soulkeeper:
VR-Zone Intel Pentium 4 Prescott Review
They used Scythe's Kamakaze cooler $23.99 at Newegg

thanks, my cooling solution should be a bit better than that with my sp-94 and a 120 cfm fan
i can't wait till newegg gets them in stock

 

[lookin4dlz]

Looks like we have two forces owrking here:
* Strained silicon technology has created the need for less power, hence the 1.35 volt (or whatever it exactly is) spec, which results in less heat.
* Strained silicon technology also allows electron leakage which results in more heat.

To combat this, Intel can implement SOI which insulates against electron leakage, right?
I think Intel has also considered using metal instead of silicon for the gate to combat this.

Is SOI compatible with Intel's upcoming TeraHertz transistor & tri-gate technologies? Maybe this is just a transition chip...

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: lookin4dlz
Is SOI compatible with Intel's upcoming TeraHertz transistor & tri-gate technologies? Maybe this is just a transition chip...

Yes, Intel will utilize Fully Depleted SOI in a future process, possibly at 65nm but more likely at 45nm.

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: lookin4dlz
Is SOI compatible with Intel's upcoming TeraHertz transistor & tri-gate technologies? Maybe this is just a transition chip...

Yes, Intel will utilize Fully Depleted SOI in a future process, possibly at 65nm but more likely at 45nm.

Rumor I heard last week has IBM asking Intel for half a billion up front and royalties per cpu to give them SOI.

Would it be worth it?

IBM's New PowerPC970FX:
http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_1-22-04.pdf
Going from 130nm to 90nm has allowed IBM to cut power consumption @2GHz from 55W to 24.5W.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: klah
Rumor I heard last week has IBM asking Intel for half a billion up front and royalties per cpu to give them SOI.

Would it be worth it?

No, since IBM's Partially Depleted SOI implementation does not help with gate leakage, the leakage which begins to have a major impact for bleeding edge processors at 90nm. PD SOI also tends to worsen as processes shrink so the benefits to Intel would be limited.

IBM's New PowerPC970FX:
http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_1-22-04.pdf
Going from 130nm to 90nm has allowed IBM to cut power consumption @2GHz from 55W to 24.5W.

The shrink of the PPC970 is much different than Prescott, as there is no new additions or cache. Prescott meanwhile went from 55M to 125M transistors with a major revision of the core. A more comparable analogy would be Dothan, which is expected to have a TDP of 21W, compared to 25W for Banias despite adding another 1MB worth of L2 cache.

(Also IBM's values for power dissipation are given as typical, and are not comparable to the power dissipation values used by Intel or AMD)