Prescott- AT calls it a flop??

[sellmen]

(Also IBM's values for power dissipation are given as typical, and are not comparable to the power dissipation values used by Intel or AMD)

AMD always gives the maximum power dissipation, Intel and IBM give typical.

 

[Accord99]

Intel uses real-world maximum.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: Accord99
Intel uses real-world maximum.

"real-world maximum" = typical

From intels datasheet:

"Analysis indicates that real applications are unlikely to cause the processor to consume maximum power dissipation for sustained periods of time"

That doesn't sound to me like the "real-world maximum" is any assurance the the processor will not hit the max heat dissipation spec.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

pastorJay...did you guys test the heat with an outside thermometer??? cause we all know that the Abit solutions run much higher then others....I have seen 14c difference at idle from abit to asus mobos alone.....Want a prescott to look good just put it on one of the boards I constantly see around here with a 2.8 or 2.4 at 3.5ghz with reports of mid to low 30c at idle and load just touching 50c. The prescott would be warmer at idle but we see te temp swings from idle to load don't appear to be as much in terms of the wattage of heat of the chip and with those heatsinks and their rated c/w.......

 

[Accord99]

But since they've done testing of a variety of CPU intensive applications and provide the methodology for it, then they can be almost certain that no real-world application will ever exceed their TDP for sustained periods of time, with most applications not even coming close to the TDP.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

pastorJay...did you guys test the heat with an outside thermometer??? cause we all know that the Abit solutions run much higher then others....I have seen 14c difference at idle from abit to asus mobos alone.....Want a prescott to look good just put it on one of the boards I constantly see around here with a 2.8 or 2.4 at 3.5ghz with reports of mid to low 30c at idle and load just touching 50c. The prescott would be warmer at idle but we see te temp swings from idle to load don't appear to be as much in terms of the wattage of heat of the chip and with those heatsinks and their rated c/w.......

Here are some results from an ASUS board:

X-bit Labs

Temperature (Idle/load, degrees Celcius)

Northwood - 30/48
Prescott - 45/61

These results were on an open testbed, in a closed case they would be warmer.
Clearly Prescott is an extremely warm processor. 15 degrees warmer than northwood, and we're only at 3.2ghz...

As for Intels thermal requirements, I'm really not sure. Without seeing the applications they used and the power dissipation numbers, its hard to say that Intels TDP and IBMs TDP are really that different. At any rate, 100+ Watts vs 25W really isn't a contest, typical or not.

 

[Big Lar]

"We will have our overclocking experience with the Prescott up likely tomorrow at Legit Reviews... Our chip is an ES chip as well, BUT we are looking forward to seeing some retail chips hit to see what the real deal will be..."

Hmmm I looked there, and must be blind,I must have missed the part about how it overclocked.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

pastorJay...did you guys test the heat with an outside thermometer??? cause we all know that the Abit solutions run much higher then others....I have seen 14c difference at idle from abit to asus mobos alone.....Want a prescott to look good just put it on one of the boards I constantly see around here with a 2.8 or 2.4 at 3.5ghz with reports of mid to low 30c at idle and load just touching 50c. The prescott would be warmer at idle but we see te temp swings from idle to load don't appear to be as much in terms of the wattage of heat of the chip and with those heatsinks and their rated c/w.......

Here are some results from an ASUS board:

X-bit Labs

Temperature (Idle/load, degrees Celcius)

Northwood - 30/48
Prescott - 45/61

These results were on an open testbed, in a closed case they would be warmer.
Clearly Prescott is an extremely warm processor. 15 degrees warmer than northwood, and we're only at 3.2ghz...

As for Intels thermal requirements, I'm really not sure. Without seeing the applications they used and the power dissipation numbers, its hard to say that Intels TDP and IBMs TDP are really that different. At any rate, 100+ Watts vs 25W really isn't a contest, typical or not.

CMON!!! Look at the heatsink they are using!!! they are using stock heatsink...Heck the stock heatsink on my abit at 3.2ghz would not look that good on my abit IC7 mobo....I bet an nice swiftech like mione with a 92mm 60cfm fan would do much better and get the those burn temps down 5-6c.....That is reasonable to say the least and proves my point....

We all need to run Asus mobos cause they make our temps look good!!! Why anyone tests temperatures on an abit mobo is beyond me....

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

pastorJay...did you guys test the heat with an outside thermometer??? cause we all know that the Abit solutions run much higher then others....I have seen 14c difference at idle from abit to asus mobos alone.....Want a prescott to look good just put it on one of the boards I constantly see around here with a 2.8 or 2.4 at 3.5ghz with reports of mid to low 30c at idle and load just touching 50c. The prescott would be warmer at idle but we see te temp swings from idle to load don't appear to be as much in terms of the wattage of heat of the chip and with those heatsinks and their rated c/w.......

Here are some results from an ASUS board:

X-bit Labs

Temperature (Idle/load, degrees Celcius)

Northwood - 30/48
Prescott - 45/61

These results were on an open testbed, in a closed case they would be warmer.
Clearly Prescott is an extremely warm processor. 15 degrees warmer than northwood, and we're only at 3.2ghz...

As for Intels thermal requirements, I'm really not sure. Without seeing the applications they used and the power dissipation numbers, its hard to say that Intels TDP and IBMs TDP are really that different. At any rate, 100+ Watts vs 25W really isn't a contest, typical or not.

CMON!!! Look at the heatsink they are using!!! they are using stock heatsink...Heck the stock heatsink on my abit at 3.2ghz would not look that good on my abit IC7 mobo....I bet an nice swiftech like mione with a 92mm 60cfm fan would do much better and get the those burn temps down 5-6c.....That is reasonable to say the least and proves my point....

We all need to run Asus mobos cause they make our temps look good!!! Why anyone tests temperatures on an abit mobo is beyond me....

Thats true, a good heatsink fan will get load temps into the 50's. The problem is,

1) We're only at 3.2ghz here. If Prescott is going to scale, temperatures are going to have to be reasonable. What kind of temps are you going to get a 3.8+ GHZ if it's this warm already? What type of temps are you going to get when you put the processor in a case? All the tests have been done in an open testbed

2) If you are overclocking and increasing voltage, you'll run into even more heat problems. Overclockers.com had an article on this.

3) Even if you cool the processor, the heat has to go somewhere; you'll need bigger, louder case fans. This is not good for OEMS like Dell. This thing is going to heat up your room as well.

4) All the processor that have been reviewed are engineering samples, and yet overclocking results have been iffy at best. One guy got his up to 4.2ghz, but it wasn't stable at over 3.8. Other sites (hardocp, toms) have had little to no luck overclocking theirs.

 

[Duvie]

true...However if you got the temps down in the mid to low 50's you have room to oc....If you don't have to adjust vcore as some sites did not have to to get it to 3.75ghz then I don't see a big increase in store in temps....

I can drop my 2.4 back to 3.4ghz right now and under load have 2-3 c diffrence becuase I can run default vcore....Then I can drop all the way back to 3.2ghz and only change temp by 1-2c...get the point...


The talk is some are getting high oc's with default vcore and one still has to remember ther are many reports, post, screen shots showing 4ghz on some air systems and water and as mentioned before with northwoods this was usuallu only reserved for phase change cooling....I think it is a good sign they oc well...

The one thing that is critical is not to give it vcore cause the heat will rise faster that way. Also realize with a .09 part now the fragileness of the gates will be greater and I think much more then 1.475v is too high anyways for longevity of the chip....

 

[MadRat]

I'm surprised that the voltages are so high. I was kind of hoping they'd drop the Prescott below 1v.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

nice article / comparison

Indeed, thanks PJ :beer: that confirmed my thinking that near silent overclocking on air isn't going to happen with this CPU in it's present incarnation. I'm looking forward to seeing how the OEM's deal with the situation, anyone have insight or info on their plans?

Judging by how Dell cools this stupid Williamette in my Dimension 8100, they will put a noisy fan in there. This thing is driving me deaf.

 

[Soulkeeper]

Originally posted by: MadRat
I'm surprised that the voltages are so high. I was kind of hoping they'd drop the Prescott below 1v.

that would rock
maybe when the .065u procs come out
ohh well guess they couldn't get it to be that efficient

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: klah
Rumor I heard last week has IBM asking Intel for half a billion up front and royalties per cpu to give them SOI.
Would it be worth it?

No, since IBM's Partially Depleted SOI implementation does not help with gate leakage, the leakage which begins to have a major impact for bleeding edge processors at 90nm. PD SOI also tends to worsen as processes shrink so the benefits to Intel would be limited.

IBM's New PowerPC970FX:
http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_1-22-04.pdf
Going from 130nm to 90nm has allowed IBM to cut power consumption @2GHz from 55W to 24.5W.

The shrink of the PPC970 is much different than Prescott, as there is no new additions or cache. Prescott meanwhile went from 55M to 125M transistors with a major revision of the core. A more comparable analogy would be Dothan, which is expected to have a TDP of 21W, compared to 25W for Banias despite adding another 1MB worth of L2 cache.
(Also IBM's values for power dissipation are given as typical, and are not comparable to the power dissipation values used by Intel or AMD)

It was not my intent to compare Prescott to PowerPC but simply to show the efficacy of SOI at 90nm.

IBM's power values are comparable to their own. That is over a 50% decrease in power consumption, which IBM attributes almost entirely to SOI: http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/FBEAAB9F7A288ED787256AE200622214/$file/PowerPC750FXmpf.pdf

The real comparison is to the upcoming Opteron/AMD64 trasition to 90nm. Those '2.6GHz Opteron @ 40W' rumors seem a lot more plausable now than back in November.

 

[iwodo]

Does any one have any temperture of Athlon 64 3200+??

It would be interesting to see how it compares.

 

[Redviffer]

Originally posted by: pastorjay
Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat...

Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Redviffer

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

I doubt it. Williamettes were worse and OEMs didn't have to resort to liquid cooling then. The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: iwodo
Does any one have any temperture of Athlon 64 3200+??

It would be interesting to see how it compares.

Mine runs around 95F as high as 103F (only after hours of LAN gaming) in a Antec P160 case using the AMD retail box heatsink & fan, nothing overclocked, ASUS k8V deluxe.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: sxr7171
The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast was liquid cooled? I did not know that.

 

[wicktron]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: sxr7171
The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast was liquid cooled? I did not know that.

I just opened up my Dreamcast and its not liquid cooled. Passive cooling on main chip with a small fan for exhaust.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Redviffer

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

I doubt it. Williamettes were worse and OEMs didn't have to resort to liquid cooling then. The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

Williamettes didn't dissipate as much heat; the highest was about 75W, whereas the prescotts are over 100W.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Redviffer

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

I doubt it. Williamettes were worse and OEMs didn't have to resort to liquid cooling then. The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

Williamettes didn't dissipate as much heat; the highest was about 75W, whereas the prescotts are over 100W.

Well that was also for a .18micron chip at nearly 1.2ghz less with 1/4 the cache and no HT.....

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: wicktron

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: sxr7171 The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast was liquid cooled? I did not know that.

I just opened up my Dreamcast and its not liquid cooled. Passive cooling on main chip with a small fan for exhaust.

The first ones were liquid cooled, then they switched to air cooling. You can find a site or two that shows the innards of a Dreamcast with liquid cooling. I'm still amazed at how small the thing is. It's about the size of a Gamecube but its power supply is inside the case.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Redviffer

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

I doubt it. Williamettes were worse and OEMs didn't have to resort to liquid cooling then. The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

Williamettes didn't dissipate as much heat; the highest was about 75W, whereas the prescotts are over 100W.

I'm sorry you're right. I guess this will mean the introduction of liquid cooling in mass produced computers. There's no way Dell, HP, Compaq customers are going to put up with, in this day and age, the noisy solutions these companies used for Williamette, and if they stick with air cooling Prescott machines will have even noisier cooling setups. This is like having a 100w light bulb in a box, and that is pretty darn hot.

I really think Intel should have come up with a way to keep power dissipation down, this is getting bad enough to affect some companies' air conditioning bills. If you don't believe me, I worked on a trading floor where there were so many computers so close together that you could feel the heat wafting from under the desk.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: sellmen

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Redviffer

Originally posted by: pastorjay Ok all, here is the skinny on the heat... Using Prescott as a space heater

This might actually serve to bring water-cooling to the general public.

I doubt it. Williamettes were worse and OEMs didn't have to resort to liquid cooling then. The only time a consumer product featured liquid cooling was the Sega Dreamcast.

Williamettes didn't dissipate as much heat; the highest was about 75W, whereas the prescotts are over 100W.

I'm sorry you're right. I guess this will mean the introduction of liquid cooling in mass produced computers. There's no way Dell, HP, Compaq customers are going to put up with, in this day and age, the noisy solutions these companies used for Williamette, and if they stick with air cooling Prescott machines will have even noisier cooling setups. This is like having a 100w light bulb in a box, and that is pretty darn hot.

I really think Intel should have come up with a way to keep power dissipation down, this is getting bad enough to affect some companies' air conditioning bills. If you don't believe me, I worked on a trading floor where there were so many computers so close together that you could feel the heat wafting from under the desk.

Yeah you definately need a 3.4E for stock trading.