President and first Lady test positive for Covid-19 (Trumps)

[Sunburn74]

I see people blaming trump for covid, yet few people ae able to give exact details why he is to blame.

He had knowledge at the start of the epidemics he hid. That knowledge if he acted on appropriately would have saved thousands of lives and billions of losses to the economy. Even more so despite having good knowledge about the disease and despite watching the disease ravage the country, he only poured gas on the situation by making COVID political (I mean is cancer considered something political, is heart disease, is hepatitis c virus political), confusing people with back and forth information about what to do, how serious the disease is , the countries trajectory, and by refusing to be a good example for what the country needed to do.

Trump is responsible for deaths. A lot of deaths. Period. Medical journals think in the tens of thousands based on the time he wasted. Deaths are slowing now but would have been slowing months ago had he acted when he knew what he did at the request of HIS OWN PEOPLE. 1500 people a day die of covid. Had he started operation warp speed when he knew the disease was deadly, vaccine development would be 3 months ahead. 1500 x 90 days people extra have died or will die unnecessarily simply from that standpoint alone. This is as clear cut a case of deaths in him. Do not forget HIS OWN PEOPlE were telling him the right steps to take and he blew them off, people in the national security advisor and economic security advisor roles as well as his health policy advisors. They tell him what to do in like January and he didnt act till like April.

 

[alexruiz]

I do not see, nor have I seen any proof that Trump is "responsible" for any deaths.

No one is innocent with covid-19. This goes back decades with presidents since Reagan signing free trade agreements that allowed companies like 3M to go to China. WHO playing politics, CDC and their testing debacle.... etc.

When the first possible cases showed up, CDC and hospitals refused testing because the patient could not "prove" they had come into contact with someone who had covid. Then there was the CDC guidelines that only allowed the CDC to do covid testing.

Everyone dropped the ball.

Are you really that dense?
OBSTRUCTING the qualified people from trying to contain the virus is a good start. Or are you going to deny that he didn't OBSTRUCT a lot of people who were trying to contain the virus?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

"intentiionally" is the same as infecting while knowing you are infectious, as it is doing it with purpose. No one has to prove that anyone does it with purpose, because reckless endangerment is a pretty easy burden to prove:

timeline of when he knew was infected. THis is easy to establish
reasonable assumption that the person understands the danger, precautions, and protocol when they are infected.

as to point two...pretty hard for the POTUS< even though they are Trump, to argue "I really don't know anything about this disease!" There's you know, a pretty thorough record of public proclamations that he knows everything there is to know about it, possibly being the greatest expert ever on the covid, but also, at the very least, surrounded by attending press conferences lead by people that actually do know what they are talking about.

There is no defensible excuse, even for a 74 year-old 6 year old to argue "well, I wasn't really paying attention. crayons!"

The argument that Greenman proposes of "well, you can't really prove anything" is the same, always repeated, apathetic rejection of what we easily know to be provable, and essentially invents a threshold of proof that has never existed, and is wholly irrelevant. He further repeats the preposterous notion that this is just some common cold, which is clearly indefensible as it dishonestly rejects every thing that we actually know about covid-19.

It's the height of hand-waving away uncomfortable truths.

This is why I’d need a ton more evidence than some twat in Twitter.

 

[zinfamous]

I do not see, nor have I seen any proof that Trump is "responsible" for any deaths.

This is because you are a very stupid person, and it will never get better for you.

I honestly don't understand why you can't just be happy playing with your chickens, feeding them to your dogs, tugging your boats, and just letting the world continue on without you worrying to much about it.

It must be miserable for you to keep coming here once a year and so just to be reminded that the reality of the world that actually exists is one that you can never participate in.

 

[brycejones]

I do not see, nor have I seen any proof that Trump is "responsible" for any deaths.

No one is innocent with covid-19. This goes back decades with presidents since Reagan signing free trade agreements that allowed companies like 3M to go to China. WHO playing politics, CDC and their testing debacle.... etc.

When the first possible cases showed up, CDC and hospitals refused testing because the patient could not "prove" they had come into contact with someone who had covid. Then there was the CDC guidelines that only allowed the CDC to do covid testing.

Everyone dropped the ball.

Have you read the thread I linked in its entirety?

Btw this thread isn’t about if trump dropped the ball it’s about Trump getting sick. Why are you so desperate to change the conversation?

 

[Grey_Beard]

Please be specific and exact, you have provided one microscopic example of something you disagree with Trump on.

Got anything else?

I would also like to know how you feel about how the past 40+ years of free trade agreements impacted our ability to respond to covid. Presidents Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama.... did more to hamper our response ability to covid-19 that anything Trump could have ever done. Then there are the senators who ratified those free trade agreements that allowed companies like 3M to move to China.

Dude, we are a capitalistic country. Regardless of what the “elected” officials did, the actual companies moved it. Remember the fuss about Carrier? Those jobs still went to Mexico because it was good for the stock holders. I love the revisionist blames Senators and Presidents. Like laws matter to a corporation. Did a President or Senator allow a corporate raider to buy a company, lay-off everyone and then take the pension promises to the employees for themselves? You just wish the world was as small as you “feel” it is and can easily be driven by false “narratives” instead of the uncomfortable reality of the situation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That was Trumps opinion. He thought it would be like the seasonal flu.



And? Trump is entitled to his opinion.



What agenda?



Saying mask are a choice? Not sure what your point is? I have been wearing a mask for months.



You are working aren't you? millions of other people are not so lucky.



What agenda?



What plan? You mean the ones that had been worked on since 9/11? So it was really the Bush pandemic plan.

After 9/11 the federal government dumped hundreds of millions into biological reediness planning. As the chance of a biological attack faded, the planning turned to pandemic planning. If I understand it right, under the obama administration funds for pandemic planning were slashed. Obama took a lot of stuff that had been put in place after 9/11 and threw it out the window.

Have you listened to the tapes? In fucking February the President said Bob this is serious stuff....it travels thru the air....

**I didn’t quite because those were not his exact words but he plainly said to Woodward the virus travels in the air.
He knew and failed to act

Before you say he wanted to prevent panic, exactly what panic was he trying to prevent? Why to this day he makes fun of masks and pushes to open everything up.

 

[brycejones]

Have you listened to the tapes? In fucking February the President said Bob this is serious stuff....it travels thru the air....

**I didn’t quite because those were not his exact words but he plainly said to Woodward the virus travels in the air.
He knew and failed to act

Before you say he wanted to prevent panic, exactly what panic was he trying to prevent? Why to this day he makes fun of masks and pushes to open everything up.

He made fun of Biden wearing a mask less than 48 hours before he was diagnosed.

 

[zinfamous]

This is why I’d need a ton more evidence than some twat in Twitter.

The only evidence you need is the actual timeline of his diagnosis. That's literally all that is needed, and is certainly obtainable. Obviously, nothing can be trusted that comes from the administration--literally nothing (which is what makes this human so inherently dangerous)--but in this exact discussion--"Can Trump be charged with crimes for spreading a deadly disease"--there is only one piece of evidence that is needed.

When did he know and, because he's POTUS, the people responsible for his health and managing his travel, know? That is literally all that is needed, and information that plainly exists, whether or not the general public knows, or will know the absolute truth of it. This is data that can't be faked.

There is already well-established precedent for charging such people with knowingly spreading dangerous diseases. So, the only question really relates to his position: as any normal person can and certainly has been charged based on this exact behavior, should the POTUS (And really, the supposed adults responsible for reigning in the child) be held accountable, as equally as anyone else?

Is the president, again, above the law? More specifically: do laws that seek to mitigate harm and death against other humans, also apply equally to POTUS?

 

[Texashiker]

He had knowledge at the start of the epidemics he hid. That knowledge if he acted on appropriately would have saved thousands of lives and billions of losses to the economy. Even more so despite having good knowledge about the disease and despite watching the disease ravage the country, he only poured gas on the situation by making COVID political (I mean is cancer considered something political, is heart disease, is hepatitis c virus political), confusing people with back and forth information about what to do, how serious the disease is , the countries trajectory, and by refusing to be a good example for what the country needed to do.

Trump is responsible for deaths. A lot of deaths. Period. Medical journals think in the tens of thousands based on the time he wasted.

I disagree with everything you said.

China wasted time and hid information.
WHO suppressed information
CDC delayed testing when the first possible cases appeared here in the states

The absolute only reason why Trump is blamed is because he is republician.

Proof, not a single person blamed obama for swine flu - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/official-swine-flu-thread.287202/

Are you really that dense?
OBSTRUCTING the qualified people from trying to contain the virus is a good start. Or are you going to deny that he didn't OBSTRUCT a lot of people who were trying to contain the virus?

Proof of obstructing?

Early CDC guidelines required contact with a known infected person before testing could be done. There are examples in Washington state and New York of people going to the hospital sick, and the hospital REFUSING to test the people because of CDC guidelines. This was back in January or February, or very early march.

Early CDC guidelines required that only CDC could do testing, which added days to the results.

Have you read the thread I linked in its entirety?

Btw this thread isn’t about if trump dropped the ball it’s about Trump getting sick. Why are you so desperate to change the conversation?

I am not trying to change the conversation. There were lots of posts about Trump before I posted.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I disagree with everything you said.

China wasted time and hid information.
WHO suppressed information
CDC delayed testing when the first possible cases appeared here in the states

The absolute only reason why Trump is blamed is because he is republician.

Proof, not a single person blamed obama for swine flu - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/official-swine-flu-thread.287202/




Proof of obstructing?

Early CDC guidelines required contact with a known infected person before testing could be done. There are examples in Washington state and New York of people going to the hospital sick, and the hospital REFUSING to test the people because of CDC guidelines. This was back in January or February, or very early march.

Early CDC guidelines required that only CDC could do testing, which added days to the results.





I am not trying to change the conversation. There were lots of posts about Trump before I posted.

Early CDC testing guidelines were based upon being woefully short of tests kits and testing capacity.
I suspect they didn’t want to be testing the same hypochondriac 9 times per week.
Again this goes along the lines of nobody expected perfection early on. Best effort is good enough. Being months out and still not having the correct infrastructure to test everyone easily and get results promptly is the failure.

 

[brycejones]

I am not trying to change the conversation.

This is a lie. You and RetroRob have been desperate to derail this thread.

 

[Texashiker]

Again this goes along the lines of nobody expected perfection early on. Best effort is good enough.

Best effort was not fauci erring on the side of caution and telling people who to wear a mask, and not to even buy mask.

I could list at least half dozen things did without even having to look, but none of that is good enough.

 

[Texashiker]

This is a lie. You and RetroRob have been desperate to derail this thread.

Just tired of people saying lies about Trump.

 

[Sunburn74]

I disagree with everything you said.

China wasted time and hid information.
WHO suppressed information
CDC delayed testing when the first possible cases appeared here in the states

The absolute only reason why Trump is blamed is because he is republician.

Proof, not a single person blamed obama for swine flu - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/official-swine-flu-thread.287202/




Proof of obstructing?

Early CDC guidelines required contact with a known infected person before testing could be done. There are examples in Washington state and New York of people going to the hospital sick, and the hospital REFUSING to test the people because of CDC guidelines. This was back in January or February, or very early march.

Early CDC guidelines required that only CDC could do testing, which added days to the results.





I am not trying to change the conversation. There were lots of posts about Trump before I posted.

No one is absolving china.

The CDC works under the direction of trump. They are literally an extension of him.

Remember peter navarro trumps (OWN GUY) wrote in a letter to him that this was the biggest threat to the economy in January (just as cases were being confirmed here. What was happening in china and italy was pretty severe). He asked for 2 billion in funding to get ready. Trump blew him off. Then his NSA advisors requested similar. He blew them off. He kept blowing people off till april and kept lying to the american people because he was concerned that COVID would ruin his chance at re-election. In fact in many ways, he actively interfered with individual states efforts to control the virus which was surging at the time.

There is a paper that estimates something like 66,000 americans are dead because of the delay in efforts to curb the virus spread. If you think about vaccine development alone, its staggering.

If you think there were reasonable steps obama could have taken to prevent swine flu deaths please state them. If those steps were reasonable and he didn't do them, then yes he is responsible for those deaths. Presidents are often responsible for deaths be it military or health crises or terrorism events so this isn't something new. If a president screws up and a terrorism event slips through, its his fault and he's responsible. However the number of deaths trump could have prevented but didn't prevent is staggering and is way more than I think can be laid at the foot of any recent US president.

Its very simple. If there are 3 companies where accidents are occurring because of a problem with a known piece of machinery. Your boss at your company (the 4th company) knows they occurred at the other companies. He also knows why they occurred and how to stop them but he didn't do anything and kept putting out messages that everything was fine. His own advisors told him "hey fix that machine or deactivate it, its killing people. At the very least warn people about it" and he told them to go away. 10 people die in those very same accidents. Your close friends die. Isn't the boss responsible? Or do you blame the 10 people who died as something that was going to happen anyway? COVID is exactly the same and its why trump is getting killed in the polls.

 

[Lanyap]

I drove by the Clearwater courthouse today and saw a 100+ group of Trump supporters lined up on both sides of the street waving their flags, hootin and a hollerin, and not wearing a mask. My pic shows the beginning of the group. There were a lot more of them toward the end of the line when I passed through them. The cars around me were blowing their horns in support.

 

[zinfamous]

Just tired of people saying lies about Trump.

then stop talking and posting. You're the only one perpetuating lies about Trump, chief.

 

[woolfe9998]

I drove by the Clearwater courthouse today and saw a 100+ group of Trump supporters lined up on both sides of the street waving their flags, hootin and a hollerin, and not wearing a mask. My pic shows the beginning of the group. There were a lot more of them toward the end of the line when I passed through them. The cars around me were blowing their horns in support.

View attachment 30896

LOL Clearwater. Isn't that a huge Scientology hub?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Best effort was not fauci erring on the side of caution and telling people who to wear a mask, and not to even buy mask.

I could list at least half dozen things did without even having to look, but none of that is good enough.

Why are you having trouble understanding.
This isn’t about what happened early on, this is about we are months into it with little federal leadership, inconsistent testing and inconsistent time to get a result.
We have a President who just a few days ago mocked his opponent for wearing a mask and NONE of his entourage wore masks, they even declined masks that were offered to them.
This is a complete failure. This isn’t about China lying, this isn’t about what production has left the country (however I am up for a discussion about that in another thread).
This is about the White House not following their own FUCKING CDC Guidlines.

 

[Grey_Beard]

I see people blaming trump for covid, yet few people ae able to give exact details why he is to blame.

Or at least details you can accept in your “reality.”

 

[Texashiker]

No one is absolving china.
The CDC works under the direction of trump. Remember peter navarro trumps (OWN GUY) wrote in a letter to him that this was the biggest threat to the economy in January (just as cases were being confirmed here. What was happening in china and italy was pretty severe). He asked for 2 billion in funding to get ready. Trump blew him off. Then his NSA advisors requested similar. He blew them off. He kept blowing people off till april and kept lying to the american people because he was concerned that COVID would ruin his chance at re-election. In fact in many ways, he actively interfered with individual states efforts to control the virus which was surging at the time.

Would throwing money at the situation helped prevent covid?

If you say yes, then explain how throwing money at HIV helped stop the epidemic.

did you post anything about Swine Flu where you blamed Obama for the deaths?

then stop talking and posting. You're the only one perpetuating lies about Trump, chief.

What lies am I spreading?

 

[Sunburn74]

Would throwing money at the situation helped prevent covid?

If you say yes, then explain how throwing money at HIV helped stop the epidemic.

did you post anything about Swine Flu where you blamed Obama for the deaths?


What lies am I spreading?

Would throwing money at the situation help? Yes it would. The US government has spent billions in vaccine grants to pfizer and moderna this year. The problem is they started in april when they could have started in january when they knew. That's not even talking about communication campaigns, hospital grants for PPE and medical supplies, etc etc things they also started doing but waited till things were absolutely shit in many US states. Whats the phrase? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

For HIV, we did throw lots of money and we stopped the epidemic. We developed AZT the first treatment very shortly after the government started spending money on HIV (I think it was <1 year after the US government got involved). Even more so we understood how the virus spreads and its complications. There was a huge campaign for safe sex and getting tested and US HIV rates plummeted and are still plummetting. Largely the reason we get anywhere with any disease is how much we are willing to spend. Its why cancer rates have been falling but heart disease rates have been stable. Right now all the money is in cancer research when it comes to US spending. I think people would actually be quite surprised at how little is being spent on COVID research if you take a look.

Right now we're talking about COVID which is ravaging the country. The obama response to swine flu I don't know a ton of details but the reason you don't know a ton of details is whatever they did probably worked and swine flu really didn't kill a lot of people here. It's one of those things that proves itself: if the outcome was good, then probably the response was at least fine. If the outcome was bad, then you have to check and see if the response was good or not. Just because an outcome is bad doesn't mean the response was also bad. It might have been great and things still went poorly. However, we clearly have evidence of a terrible horrendous response by the US government to COVID and this is despite having the ability to have seen what happened at other countries first and having the best medicine and researchers available as resources. The response was just hot shit. Any doctor will tell you that. Hot shit.

Even if you say obama could have prevented all 12,000 swine flu deaths in the US and was totally incompetent in the response, its still way way way worse than what you can lay at trump's feet but in human death toll and the economic impact.

 

[soundforbjt]

I wonder what SNL did for their first new show tonight in light of Trump getting infected.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Would throwing money at the situation helped prevent covid?

If you say yes, then explain how throwing money at HIV helped stop the epidemic.

did you post anything about Swine Flu where you blamed Obama for the deaths?




What lies am I spreading?

HIV vs Covid spending
HIV spending appears to be around 28 Billion per year for years *this could be incorrect* that figure appears to include housing assistance

Total Gov Spending for Covid appears to be around 2-6 Trillion. I assume this includes the various relief payments. Low end estimate probably doesn’t.
Basically Covid surpasses total from day one HIV spending within 9 months give or take.
To my knowledge while HIV sucks treatments for it extend life pretty well. Question is when does extending life become cruel.





While I likely won’t be alive check back in 65 years and we can discuss the effectiveness of Covid vs HIV spending
If we do it before then obviously HIV spending was less than Covid.

 

[Viper1j]

@woolfe9998 ,
It is becoming abundantly clear he attended the fundraiser after a positive test result. They cut down the number of staff that would travel with him, right before they headed out to it. He and his administration are liable for infections from that event.

It took 4 Separate Court orders to make him pay off the victims of Trump University.

You really think you can a give anything to somebody that claims they got sick because he was there?