A mighty wave has come in from the coasts. The grip of the Pygmy bigots of the racist South have been broken.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A mighty wave has come in from the coasts. The grip of the Pygmy bigots of the racist South have been broken.
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
uh?
ohh, excuse me for not bowing down to your flawless god.
god forbid their be any legitimate criticisms of obama!
he must be racist! oh wait, intolerant! no, he's a war mongering bigot. yes, that's right.
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
uh?
ohh, excuse me for not bowing down to your flawless god.
god forbid their be any legitimate criticisms of obama!
he must be racist! oh wait, intolerant! no, he's a war mongering bigot. yes, that's right.
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
uh?
ohh, excuse me for not bowing down to your flawless god.
god forbid their be any legitimate criticisms of obama!
he must be racist! oh wait, intolerant! no, he's a war mongering bigot. yes, that's right.
Have any evidence to back that up? LOL I thought not.
Originally posted by: insurgent
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
uh?
ohh, excuse me for not bowing down to your flawless god.
god forbid their be any legitimate criticisms of obama!
he must be racist! oh wait, intolerant! no, he's a war mongering bigot. yes, that's right.
Have any evidence to back that up? LOL I thought not.
I can't believe anyone that stupid learned how to type... ahh the wonders of the intarwebz.
Originally posted by: bozack
Just keep saying spread the wealth around over and over
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: counterstrikedude
psh. enjoy your moment of zealotry. soon your messiah won't deliver, and you'll won't waste any time blaming bush and his bandits.
Wow Mrs. Cleo, do you have any evidence to back that up?
uh?
ohh, excuse me for not bowing down to your flawless god.
god forbid their be any legitimate criticisms of obama!
he must be racist! oh wait, intolerant! no, he's a war mongering bigot. yes, that's right.
Originally posted by: Painman
Well, I remember feeling all cool about "Governor-Elect Deval Patrick" and then being underwhelmed by "Governor Deval Patrick".
I'm not making the comparison because of their shared skin color. Obama may prove to be a fine President, but running a good campaign with the wind at your back (like Deval) isn't the same thing as governing and dealing with the Lege. Granted, the MA lege and the US Congress are rather different animals aside from the fact that they're both legislative branches.
I'm optimistic, but still mostly in "wait and see" mode.
Here's hoping that he makes them his bitches.Originally posted by: JD50
I think Obama will be a decent President as long as he can stand up to the Pelosi/Reid machine.
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: bozack
Just keep saying spread the wealth around over and over
Insuring children that do not have health care sounds like a terrible way to spread the wealth. They deserve death!!! /sarcasm
I think you are misunderstanding something fundamental. How you treat your lower class says a lot about your society in general. I don't think it is too much to ask for those that are in the upper 5% of income to throw out some pocket change to give health care to those less fortunate and to fix our education system so that little Timmy, who's mom and dad are smoking crack in an alley somewhere, can receive the health care and the education he needs to break his families cycle of self destructive habits. Then you won't have to be bothered when Timmy is asking you for change while you try to get into your BMW because he can't afford a 40 of King Cobra. My example is very general and doesn't highlight many of the problems that put hypothetical "Timmy" in his situation but you get the point. Congradulations on being rich if you are in that 3-5% or whatever, god forbid you have to give something back to the community. Calling it redistributing the wealth is not an accurate portrayal of what Obama wants. It is just a ring wing attack that is unfounded. The thing that I find particularly comical is how right wing Republicans tend to be the most religious group, yet tend to be appalled at the idea of helping those less fortunate, something that Christianity preaches from page 1 of the bible. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, perhaps you are for these things but disagree on how to achieve this. If so, please clarify. If it is government control you are afraid of, then I suggest we put better people in government, because the free market has not fixed these problems and doesn't appear to be attempting to do so. Our fire departments, police, and other institutions have done very well being socialized. Others have not such as education and welfare (a monumental failure in my opinion). Anyways if you spread the wealth around evenly, studies have shown it would go back to the same people that had it before anyway because these people know how to make money. So yea, if spreading the wealth is what you are afraid of, don't worry. A 4% tax increase isn't going to keep you from buying your fifth vacation home.
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: bozack
Just keep saying spread the wealth around over and over
Insuring children that do not have health care sounds like a terrible way to spread the wealth. They deserve death!!! /sarcasm
I think you are misunderstanding something fundamental. How you treat your lower class says a lot about your society in general. I don't think it is too much to ask for those that are in the upper 5% of income to throw out some pocket change to give health care to those less fortunate and to fix our education system so that little Timmy, who's mom and dad are smoking crack in an alley somewhere, can receive the health care and the education he needs to break his families cycle of self destructive habits. Then you won't have to be bothered when Timmy is asking you for change while you try to get into your BMW because he can't afford a 40 of King Cobra. My example is very general and doesn't highlight many of the problems that put hypothetical "Timmy" in his situation but you get the point. Congradulations on being rich if you are in that 3-5% or whatever, god forbid you have to give something back to the community. Calling it redistributing the wealth is not an accurate portrayal of what Obama wants. It is just a ring wing attack that is unfounded. The thing that I find particularly comical is how right wing Republicans tend to be the most religious group, yet tend to be appalled at the idea of helping those less fortunate, something that Christianity preaches from page 1 of the bible. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, perhaps you are for these things but disagree on how to achieve this. If so, please clarify. If it is government control you are afraid of, then I suggest we put better people in government, because the free market has not fixed these problems and doesn't appear to be attempting to do so. Our fire departments, police, and other institutions have done very well being socialized. Others have not such as education and welfare (a monumental failure in my opinion). Anyways if you spread the wealth around evenly, studies have shown it would go back to the same people that had it before anyway because these people know how to make money. So yea, if spreading the wealth is what you are afraid of, don't worry. A 4% tax increase isn't going to keep you from buying your fifth vacation home.
It's the idea of raising someones taxes to give someone else a check at tax time who doesn't pay taxes. There is a fundamental problem with that and it's exactly what they want to do. If people are truly bad off there are state programs they an apply for and if there are not then the people of the state should be taking care of it.
Taking from Peter to give to Paul, no matter how much the amount is, is wrong. Lets pretend we don't have this "progressive" tax system (read: class warfare system) and say everyone pays 15% of their income. Someone making 40,000 only pays 6,000 and then someone making 250,000 pays 37,500. The "rich" people are definitely paying "their share" of the pie, especially since they are probably going to use the entitlements much less than the "poor" person. BUT we do have this class warfare system, meaning some people don't pay taxes, some people pay some taxes, some people pay taxes, and then some people pay the rest of the taxes.
If you want to pay for little Timmy's health care then do so on your own dime, or make poor Timmy apply for the state sponsored programs which are more than likely available.
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Originally posted by: bozack
Just keep saying spread the wealth around over and over
Insuring children that do not have health care sounds like a terrible way to spread the wealth. They deserve death!!! /sarcasm
I think you are misunderstanding something fundamental. How you treat your lower class says a lot about your society in general. I don't think it is too much to ask for those that are in the upper 5% of income to throw out some pocket change to give health care to those less fortunate and to fix our education system so that little Timmy, who's mom and dad are smoking crack in an alley somewhere, can receive the health care and the education he needs to break his families cycle of self destructive habits. Then you won't have to be bothered when Timmy is asking you for change while you try to get into your BMW because he can't afford a 40 of King Cobra. My example is very general and doesn't highlight many of the problems that put hypothetical "Timmy" in his situation but you get the point. Congradulations on being rich if you are in that 3-5% or whatever, god forbid you have to give something back to the community. Calling it redistributing the wealth is not an accurate portrayal of what Obama wants. It is just a ring wing attack that is unfounded. The thing that I find particularly comical is how right wing Republicans tend to be the most religious group, yet tend to be appalled at the idea of helping those less fortunate, something that Christianity preaches from page 1 of the bible. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, perhaps you are for these things but disagree on how to achieve this. If so, please clarify. If it is government control you are afraid of, then I suggest we put better people in government, because the free market has not fixed these problems and doesn't appear to be attempting to do so. Our fire departments, police, and other institutions have done very well being socialized. Others have not such as education and welfare (a monumental failure in my opinion). Anyways if you spread the wealth around evenly, studies have shown it would go back to the same people that had it before anyway because these people know how to make money. So yea, if spreading the wealth is what you are afraid of, don't worry. A 4% tax increase isn't going to keep you from buying your fifth vacation home.
It's the idea of raising someones taxes to give someone else a check at tax time who doesn't pay taxes. There is a fundamental problem with that and it's exactly what they want to do. If people are truly bad off there are state programs they an apply for and if there are not then the people of the state should be taking care of it.
Taking from Peter to give to Paul, no matter how much the amount is, is wrong. Lets pretend we don't have this "progressive" tax system (read: class warfare system) and say everyone pays 15% of their income. Someone making 40,000 only pays 6,000 and then someone making 250,000 pays 37,500. The "rich" people are definitely paying "their share" of the pie, especially since they are probably going to use the entitlements much less than the "poor" person. BUT we do have this class warfare system, meaning some people don't pay taxes, some people pay some taxes, some people pay taxes, and then some people pay the rest of the taxes.
If you want to pay for little Timmy's health care then do so on your own dime, or make poor Timmy apply for the state sponsored programs which are more than likely available.
This isn't about paying your "share". If you want to talk about fair, then how is it fair for Timmy to be brought up on the streets and for someone more priveledged to grow up in a gated community? We all don't have the same start, nor the same end. All things are not equal. As I said before, I believe that a society should be measured on how they deal with the less fortunate. Those that are faced with setbacks every day of their lives are very unlikely to succeed, regardless of their intellect or drive or ability.
First of all, many of these state sponsored programs you speak of are terrible, especially in my lovely state of West Virginia (note my sarcasm, WV sucks hard). Things may be different in states with less corrupt governments, and if so, I need to move haha. Many of these people that put together these programs have been elected by a terribly uneducated public, voting either all red or all blue while giving no thought to the real issues.
If I were lucky enough to make $250000+ a year I would gladly fork up 40-50% of my income to taxes. Damn, it isn't like I would need it. I don't see one thing wrong with that. Give it to those that need it. Give it to those that are struggling. I am fine with that and I don't see how any one with a conscience wouldn't be okay with that. Hell if I made $5000000+ I would be okay with parting with 80% of my money going to taxes, with the stipulation that the government uses it wisely, which unfortunately has not been the case. I really can see nothing wrong with it. It makes things better for everybody and I would certainly not be hurting. Let's dump that money into our school systems or something of that nature so that little Timmy will have knowledge of the political climate or the global economy, or philosophy, or something useful so that he will have the tools he will need to not be a "burden" to the wealthy taxpayers and will be better educated to make informed decisions. I believe a better educated public would be far less likely to put people in our government that have no business being there in the first place. That is partially why we have such a F'd up government. People that have no knowledge of the issues are voting! Worse yet, like 40% or more of the eligible population isn't even getting involved.
Maybe I am just too idealistic, or maybe I am overestimating peoples value. Maybe I think that we have evolved these beautiful brains and that all of us have the capacity to use them in a meaningful way. I am just somewhat depressed by the fact that many of the people I meet just cannot be as dumb as they appear. I am lucky enough to be a pretty smart dude and I just don't know what else could be the problem. They must be a product of their environments and their education, thats the only thing I can come up with. Maybe I am dead wrong. Maybe I am just too young to know any better. With all of that being said, things are pretty damned good all around, even in this financial crises. I just think that it could be even better, and if it could be better, then why isn't it? Okay I think I am ranting now lol. If anybody has any links to any cool studies regarding how universal health care systems are funded, educational systems in the leading countries, and their tax system, please post em or PM me. Preferably a post that way others can look into it. Book suggestions are cool too. Either viewpoint is welcomed. Weeee.
Originally posted by: Painman
Well, I remember feeling all cool about "Governor-Elect Deval Patrick" and then being underwhelmed by "Governor Deval Patrick".
I'm not making the comparison because of their shared skin color. Obama may prove to be a fine President, but running a good campaign with the wind at your back (like Deval) isn't the same thing as governing and dealing with the Lege. Granted, the MA lege and the US Congress are rather different animals aside from the fact that they're both legislative branches.
I'm optimistic, but still mostly in "wait and see" mode.
Originally posted by: RichardE
... motivated by him.
Originally posted by: RichardE
He could get the economy going just by going out and saying "we need to buy stuff".
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: RichardE
... motivated by him.
Huh? A people that needs a figurehead to motivate them is a doomed people. I really home this isn't the case. This is America and he is Barack Obama... a hopeful far cry from Russia/Stalin, where state-run cinema was a tool of motivation and propaganda.
Originally posted by: RichardE
He could get the economy going just by going out and saying "we need to buy stuff".
We don't need to buy stuff, and we don't need another damn stimulus package. This country has DEBT and it needs to be paid off NOW, from the government all the way down to individual citizens. The books - private and corporate - need to accurately reflect our actual wealth.
Going out and "buying stuff" is what got us here in the first place.
You see, THIS is what scared me about an Obama victory. People are losing all sense of reality. It's as if they think the laws of physics were magically whisked away with McCain's concession speech.