Presidential Debate #1

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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
You expect that a need to slime basis is reason for you to have an answer. It is not. He would have no trouble at all answering but you wouldn't be able to understand a word he said. You already believe you know the only answer he can give, the one that comports with low level thinking. My job is to inform you that you are not up to speed. It's not my job to bring you there. It's the last place you want to go. The truth hides itself from fools by instantly appearing to be unlikely unlikely, not conforming to a fools expectations.
Don’t require a wall of text to answer a simple question
Dabbled with it? Who are these democrats and what does “dabbled” with mean?
Those are some weasel words if I’ve ever heard any.
Well I did mention one by name in my post
 

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,900
1,919
136
I agree, Trump cleverly maneuvered him into a defensive position, but I think even a response like "Police are free to endorse whomever they please, but I wish to make it clear that I am a strong supporter of fair and just policing and have made clear that I do not support defunding the police" would have been far preferable to just standing there speechless. I am not a professional debater or politician, but this topic was sure to come up, and Biden should have been prepped for it.

That would have been okay, but you have had time to think about it, during a raucous debate like that almost anyone wouldn't think of that imho.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,344
15,154
136
Don’t require a wall of text to answer a simple question
Well I did mention one by name in my post

I went back to post 744 and not a single post of yours after that named anyone who has dabbled with expanding the courts.

So I’ll ask again; which democrats dabbled with expanding the SC? What exactly does “dabbled” with mean?
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Then Biden should have no problem answering where he stands on packing the Supreme Court, which is a legitimate question for him to answer.

Nah, why should he have to answer hypotheticals? Scotus nominees refuse to answer those all the time, and they get lifetime appointments.

He can if he wants to, or not. Answering that now probably won't help him, so don't.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I went back to post 744 and not a single post of yours after that named anyone who has dabbled with expanding the courts.

So I’ll ask again; which democrats dabbled with expanding the SC? What exactly does “dabbled” with mean?
I specifically mentioned FDR. As for modern times, Ed Markey assertively stated that Democrats should pack the courts. Rep Joe Kennedy as well. Eric Holder. Nadler. If you’re looking for weaselly responses, Schumer has alluded to “all options” on the table. Neither Biden nor Harris have committed to a stance, which should be easy to articulate, you either favor it or you don’t. A fair amount of reputable news outlets have posted compelling arguments for why its a bad idea.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I specifically mentioned FDR. As for modern times, Ed Markey assertively stated that Democrats should pack the courts. Rep Joe Kennedy as well. Eric Holder. Nadler. If you’re looking for weaselly responses, Schumer has alluded to “all options” on the table. Neither Biden nor Harris have committed to a stance, which should be easy to articulate, you either favor it or you don’t. A fair amount of reputable news outlets have posted compelling arguments for why its a bad idea.

And those compelling arguments are... what, exactly? Too much whining from the GOP, or what? It's a "what about" discussion that doesn't belong in this thread, anyway.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
Not sure if this has already been posted here.

This was Trump after he saw Biden getting a hug from his wife.


You have to watch it from the beginning. I've gotten warmer welcomes from co-workers and acquaintances of people whose name escapes me and I have a minor panic attack trying to remember the name...Kate? Karen? Kristen...I think its with a k?
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,646
146
You have to watch it from the beginning. I've gotten warmer welcomes from co-workers and acquaintances of people whose name escapes me and I have a minor panic attack trying to remember the name...Kate? Karen? Kristen...I think its with a k?

Even how they stand is fucking awkward as shit. Is it just me or do they stand like they have rear horse/deer/etc type legs, like they're minotaurs or satyrs or something? She looks like she simultaneously has the front of her legs/hips sorta bent forward and her back bent backwards, and then her neck bent forward. I think he just has his gut sticking out and then his neck bent forward from probably constantly staring at his phone. And the arm thing looks like a fidgety child while his Mom is trying to keep him standing still and not running off.

He looks so fucking awkward. Reminds me of this.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
136
I specifically mentioned FDR. As for modern times, Ed Markey assertively stated that Democrats should pack the courts. Rep Joe Kennedy as well. Eric Holder. Nadler. If you’re looking for weaselly responses, Schumer has alluded to “all options” on the table. Neither Biden nor Harris have committed to a stance, which should be easy to articulate, you either favor it or you don’t. A fair amount of reputable news outlets have posted compelling arguments for why its a bad idea.

You said for a while. Then you mention FDR. Was that 80 to 90 years ago? Then you mention these guys. Was this not in the last week? What was the discussion of this over the last 80 to 90 years? You state this like it has been a Democratic platform for years. What universe do you return to each day? Not this one. Is it a BothSides one where 100% of the people straddle the fence?
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,784
1,355
136
That would have been okay, but you have had time to think about it, during a raucous debate like that almost anyone wouldn't think of that imho.
[/QUOTE]
True to an extent. I certainly have a problem thinking what to say in the heat of the moment, and can think of very good responses later. OTOH, I am not a career politician, who should be able to respond well under pressure. Furthermore, as I already said, the topic of police support should have been anticipated in prep sessions and practice debates, and they should have had a strategy to address it.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,091
38,638
136
Ha!



Well, at least you got paid for subjecting yourself to that corpulent orange manatee's carnal intent. I watched the whole thing, and all I got was a headache and a desire to destroy pumpkins.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,851
8,313
136
I have nobody on ignore. Anything that upsets me does so because it triggers some aspect of my own self hate. Any successful agitators are powerful learning tools. The hard part is trying to get to what it is they really might make me feel. For training in that I used to have access to a padded cell. And nobody can stand to be with me when I drive. The highways are full of people who have no right to be alive and if it weren't for window glass, car noise and distance they would all know it.

In the sea there are treasures beyond compare but if you seek safety it is on the shore.
I'm a pretty mellow dude on the highways. I mean, what's the fuckin' hurry? I am used to walking the city streets (did this for years), bicycling all around the Bay Area, roller skating around the city. I drive my car less than 1500mi/year the last 20 years or so, under 1000 now in the pandemic. People who drive trying to "make time" just make me nervous, if not angry, but not angry enough for me to flip. You can play mind games with other drivers but it's in your head and you're just kidding yourself when you do that. Screw it. I'm in no hurry and your worries are yours, they don't need to be mine.

As far as ignoring people here, I used to not do it at all and then a few of them were obviously trying to get under my skin. So I went, well fuck that, I don't want to know you're there if you just have bad intentions and want to bother me. I have better things to do than argue with people.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,591
7,652
136
Republican or Democrat - I hope that come election night, Americans remember they're Americans and put country before party.

Election night, thanks to Democrat bias with mail in voting, Trump will win.
Then will be the fight over counting / not counting ballots as they arrive AFTER election day.
It will be a fight to "steal" the election from Trump.
And that fight is where America is in serious jeopardy.

Trump will violate the rule of law. Fox News will push it. And the "real Republicans" will dither and wonder how many more Judges they can take.
 
Reactions: Thump553

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,851
8,313
136
Election night, thanks to Democrat bias with mail in voting, Trump will win.
Then will be the fight over counting / not counting ballots as they arrive AFTER election day.
It will be a fight to "steal" the election from Trump.
And that fight is where America is in serious jeopardy.

Trump will violate the rule of law. Fox News will push it. And the "real Republicans" will dither and wonder how many more Judges they can take.
Probably behind the paywall, but quite the article on this:


By David E. Sanger
  • Sept. 30, 2020
President Trump’s angry insistence in the last minutes of Tuesday’s debate that there was no way the presidential election could be conducted without fraud amounted to an extraordinary declaration by a sitting American president that he would try to throw any outcome into the courts, Congress or the streets if he was not re-elected.

His comments came after four years of debate about the possibility of foreign interference in the 2020 election and how to counter such disruptions. But they were a stark reminder that the most direct threat to the electoral process now comes from the president of the United States himself.

Mr. Trump’s unwillingness to say he would abide by the result, and his disinformation campaign about the integrity of the American electoral system, went beyond anything President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could have imagined. All Mr. Putin has to do now is amplify the president’s message, which he has already begun to do.

Everything Mr. Trump said in his face-off with Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic presidential nominee, he had already delivered in recent weeks, in tweets and at rallies with his faithful. But he had never before put it all together in front of such a large audience as he did on Tuesday night.

The president began the debate with a declaration that balloting already underway was “a fraud and a shame” and proof of “a rigged election.”

It quickly became apparent that Mr. Trump was doing more than simply trying to discredit the mail-in ballots that are being used to ensure voters are not disenfranchised by a pandemic — the same way of voting that five states have used for years with minimal fraud.
He followed it by encouraging his supporters to “go into the polls” and “watch very carefully,” which seemed to be code words for a campaign of voter intimidation, aimed at those who brave the coronavirus risks of voting in person.

And Mr. Trump’s declaration that the Supreme Court would have to “look at the ballots” and that “we might not know for months because these ballots are going to be all over” seemed to suggest that he would try to place the election in the hands of a court where he has been rushing to cement a conservative majority with his nomination of Judge Amy Coney Barrett.
And if he cannot win there, he has already raised the possibility of using the argument of a fraudulent election to throw the decision to the House of Representatives, where he believes he has an edge because every state delegation gets one vote in resolving an election with no clear winner. At least for now, 26 of those delegations have a majority of Republican representatives.

Taken together, his attacks on the integrity of the coming election suggested that a country that has successfully run presidential elections since 1788 (a messy first experiment, which stretched just under a month), through civil wars, world wars and natural disasters now faces the gravest challenge in its history to the way it chooses a leader and peacefully transfers power.

“We have never heard a president deliberately cast doubt on an election’s integrity this way a month before it happened,” said Michael Beschloss, a presidential historian and the author of “Presidents of War.” “This is the kind of thing we have preached to other countries that they should not do. It reeks of autocracy, not democracy.”

But what worried American intelligence and homeland security officials, who have been assuring the public for months now that an accurate, secure vote could happen, was that Mr. Trump’s rant about a fraudulent vote may have been intended for more than just a domestic audience.





Voters preparing to cast early ballots in the presidential election this month in Richmond, Va.Credit...Carlos Bernate for The New York Times

They have been worried for some time that his warnings are a signal to outside powers — chiefly the Russians — for their disinformation campaigns, which have seized on his baseless theme that the mail-in ballots are ridden with fraud. But what concerns them the most is that over the next 34 days, the country may begin to see disruptive cyberoperations, especially ransomware, intended to create just enough chaos to prove the president’s point.

Those who studied the 2016 election have seen this coming for a long while and warned about the risk. The Republicans who led Senate Intelligence Committee’s final report on that election included a clear warning.

“Sitting officials and candidates should use the absolute greatest amount of restraint and caution if they are considering publicly calling the validity of an upcoming election into question,” the report said, noting that doing so would only be “exacerbating the already damaging messaging efforts of foreign intelligence services.”

That has happened already. Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California and the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said in a recent interview he had asked the intelligence agencies he oversees to look for examples of the Russians picking up on Mr. Trump’s words.

“Sure enough, it wasn’t long before the intelligence community started seeing exactly that,” Mr. Schiff said. “It was too enticing and predictable an option for the Russians. They have been amplifying Trump’s false attacks on absentee voting.”

What is striking is how Mr. Trump’s fundamental assessment that the election would be fraudulent differed so sharply from that of some of the officials he has appointed. It was only last week that the director of the F.B.I., Christopher A. Wray, said his agency had “not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it’s by mail or otherwise.”

Mr. Wray was immediately attacked by the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows. “With all due respect to Director Wray, he has a hard time finding emails in his own F.B.I.”
Mr. Trump himself has provided no evidence to back up his assertions, apart from citing a handful of Pennsylvania ballots discarded in a dumpster — and immediately tracked down, and counted, by election officials.

Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security and the F.B.I. have been issuing warnings, as recently as 24 hours before the debate, about the dangers of disinformation in what could be a tumultuous time after the election.

“During the 2020 election season, foreign actors and cybercriminals are spreading false and inconsistent information through various online platforms in an attempt to manipulate public opinion, discredit the electoral process and undermine confidence in U.S. democratic institutions,” the agencies wrote in a joint public service announcement.

It detailed the kind of data that could be leaked — mostly voter registration details — and said the agencies “have no information suggesting any cyberattack on U.S. election infrastructure has prevented an election from occurring, compromised the accuracy of voter registration information, prevented a registered voter from casting a ballot, or compromised the integrity of any ballots cast.”

When officials involved in those announcements were asked whether Mr. Trump had different information, which would explain his repeated attacks on the election system, they went silent.

They had little choice. It was apparent to them that the chief disinformation source was their boss. And for that, they had no playbook.
 
Last edited:

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
I’ve had more time to think about this, to take in that train wreck, and to watch media reactions. First off, I’m offended that anyone would refer to what happened as A DEBATE. This was in no way a “debate”. It was an attack from Donald Trump upon America. And for the news media especially Fox News to place any blame on Joe Biden or to claim Joe Biden shares any responsibility for what took place is outrageous. In no way did Joe Biden share any responsibility for what took place. It was all Donald Trump’s doing. And.... I am pissed that a man like Joe Biden was so disrespected in this way. Joe was trying to play by the rules and what Donald Trump did was a punch below the belt. If this had been a boxing match, Joe Biden would have played by the rules where as every blow from Donald Trump would have been a gut punch. One might claim that this was justified if it had been Donald Trump against Kim Jong Un or against Vladimir Putin, but Joe Biden is a honorable man of integrity where Donald Trump is a lowlife thug. Donald Trump is the kind of thug who spray paints graffiti onto graveyard tombstones and would defile art hanging in an museum. Donald Trump has no respect for America, for Joe Biden, or for YOU. YOU, regardless of what or who you are. If the Trump base had any righteous indignation, they’d realize that Donald Trump has no more respect for his base than does Donald Trump have for Joe Biden. If Trump had respect Trump would never act like this.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
After seeing videos of 3 hour long lines at early voting polls yesterday in VA, I just requested mail in ballot here in MD.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
After seeing videos of 3 hour long lines at early voting polls yesterday in VA, I just requested mail in ballot here in MD.
I did request one but i'm going in person as I don't trust it would get counted as I live in a rural area in NC.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
I did request one but i'm going in person as I don't trust it would get counted as I live in a rural area in NC.
Yeah I'm confident with how things are around here so not too concerned about it.

After driving through rural NC to go to the beach this past July, I can understand why you would be concerned lol.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
You said for a while. Then you mention FDR. Was that 80 to 90 years ago? Then you mention these guys. Was this not in the last week? What was the discussion of this over the last 80 to 90 years? You state this like it has been a Democratic platform for years. What universe do you return to each day? Not this one. Is it a BothSides one where 100% of the people straddle the fence?
90 years is awhile. My universe is simply outside of your echo chamber.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Election night, thanks to Democrat bias with mail in voting, Trump will win.
Then will be the fight over counting / not counting ballots as they arrive AFTER election day.
It will be a fight to "steal" the election from Trump.
And that fight is where America is in serious jeopardy.

Trump will violate the rule of law. Fox News will push it. And the "real Republicans" will dither and wonder how many more Judges they can take.
Explain to us the so called Democrat bias with mail in voting. Republicans for at least 30 years have been big fans of mail in voting. They wanted the time extended for military ballots during Bush v Gore.
 
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