Price of Strong Mac G5- How much for similar PC?

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

For ~$350 more she could get a dual 1.8 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, PCI-X cards, 16 GB RAM (8 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine), etc. For about $250 less she could get a single 1.6 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, and 8 GB RAM (4 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine).

And for about $1000 less she could get an Athlon64 3000+ system that would beat the dual G5 ! Give it up. In games the Apple doesn't compete. Have you seen the benchmarks ?

You and just about everyone else is ignoring the initial poster's post:

"How much would a similar PC be, and similar software?"

Yes, the hardware is a lot cheaper on the PC side, but when you try to match the Apple software bundle with comparable PC applications (or at least as close as they get), the PC falls into quite a disadvantage.

 

[GL]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

For ~$350 more she could get a dual 1.8 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, PCI-X cards, 16 GB RAM (8 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine), etc. For about $250 less she could get a single 1.6 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, and 8 GB RAM (4 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine).

And for about $1000 less she could get an Athlon64 3000+ system that would beat the dual G5 ! Give it up. In games the Apple doesn't compete. Have you seen the benchmarks ?

What? A cojillion frames per second for The Sims on the PC vs 1/2 cojillion frames per second for The Sims on the Mac? She plays the occasional non-system-taxing popular videogame. If I'm not mistaken, all the titles she mentioned are available for the Mac, and will play very well.

She wants fast external storage and has already said she's looking forward to FW800. USB 2.0 isn't going to cut it - it's slower than FW400. Not to mention if her associates have Macs, she can boot up their machines with her own system by using a carbon copy of her Mac system on an external FW drive.

She does heavy graphics work and so the more RAM the better. I don't expect her to slap those new 2GB DDR DIMMs in all 8 slots of the G5, but to be able to buy commodity 256 or 512 MB modules and fill all 8 slots for a total of 2 or 4 GB of RAM is practical and would benefit somebody working with big graphics very much.

In my opinion the only real question mark here is price. She seems open minded to different computing environments. So if she's willing to drop $3G on a Mac why not? Certainly if price was a concern I'd be advocating the Athlon route too.

 

[Overkast]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: Markfw900

For ~$350 more she could get a dual 1.8 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, PCI-X cards, 16 GB RAM (8 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine), etc. For about $250 less she could get a single 1.6 GHz G5 with a ton more software, room for Firewire 800 devices, and 8 GB RAM (4 slots on the G5 vs 3 on that machine).

And for about $1000 less she could get an Athlon64 3000+ system that would beat the dual G5 ! Give it up. In games the Apple doesn't compete. Have you seen the benchmarks ?

You and just about everyone else is ignoring the initial poster's post:

"How much would a similar PC be, and similar software?"

Yes, the hardware is a lot cheaper on the PC side, but when you try to match the Apple software bundle with comparable PC applications (or at least as close as they get), the PC falls into quite a disadvantage.

Actually, it is you, Pariah, that is ignoring the initial poster's post:

"I recently did research here in order to build a gaming PC for my boyfriend".

Any recent PC is better for gaming than Macs are... point blank. Clearly the "bundled software" you get with Macs is the epitomy of irrelevancy in this post.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

The most important things, IMO, are:

Do you like OSX or windows better, and how strongly do you like one over the other?

How much do you want to spend, and how big of a difference does price make?

Answer those, and the answer pretty much falls into place, at least it seems to for me.

 

[Pariah]

Actually, it is you, Pariah, that is ignoring the initial poster's post:

"I recently did research here in order to build a gaming PC for my boyfriend".

Any recent PC is better for gaming than

No, you're the one who can't read. She already got her BF's computer, this thread is about something for HER. Her computer is not primarily for gaming:

"My BF already got his computer."
"I do heavy graphics and some 3d gameplay"
"All of the games that I like to play are out for the Mac."

 

[Overkast]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Actually, it is you, Pariah, that is ignoring the initial poster's post:

"I recently did research here in order to build a gaming PC for my boyfriend".

Any recent PC is better for gaming than

No, you're the one who can't read. She already got her BF's computer, this thread is about something for HER. Her computer is not primarily for gaming:

"My BF already got his computer."
"I do heavy graphics and some 3d gameplay"
"All of the games that I like to play are out for the Mac."

Okay, I take it back. My humblest apologies.

 

[Caly]

Whew! I'm sorry, yes, it's for Me. My BF got his for Xmas.
And yes, all of the games that I play are out for the Mac.
And yes, I want Firewire 800 and anything that helps with mass storage and movement of huge graphics files.
Photoshop has already been updated to take better advantage of 64bit machines and most graphics programs are following suit... plus hopefully more programs will take advantage of dual processing.
And yes, the ability to eventually go up to at least 8 GB RAM is important- it _really_ helps with graphics.

I used to be a freelance web-designer, then the .com bomb went off. So during the day I have a steady if boring job and then I go home and do graphics. I'm learning more about 3D and intend to hone those skills and change jobs eventually.

I'm fine using any environment. At work I have a modern Dell. My boyfriend's gaming PC that I sometimes use is the AMD that I got all of the pieces for, and my schools almost all had Macs.

What I wanted to see was the price comparison. But it seems that the high-end Macs are actually priced competitively.

 

[aka1nas]

What programs besides photoshop are you using? If it's mainly 3d rendering that you are doing, I don't see any reason to not get a PC. I also think it's a little wasteful to get a dual G5 as for your needs I think you would be better served by getting a Athlon64 of some sort or maybe the dual opteron. You could get a firewire 800 add in card and a PC for less than the cost of the G5 and it would play all the same software as your bfs computer.

 

[Snoop]

What I wanted to see was the price comparison. But it seems that the high-end Macs are actually priced competitively.

This is absolutely false, but it seems people on this board would be willing to argue whether the sky is blue. Buy the duel mac, it will probably work perfectly, but if you want to get ALOT more value for your money get a PC.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Snoop

What I wanted to see was the price comparison. But it seems that the high-end Macs are actually priced competitively.

This is absolutely false, but it seems people on this board would be willing to argue whether the sky is blue. Buy the duel mac, it will probably work perfectly, but if you want to get ALOT more value for your money get a PC.

Ditto.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Snoop

What I wanted to see was the price comparison. But it seems that the high-end Macs are actually priced competitively.

This is absolutely false, but it seems people on this board would be willing to argue whether the sky is blue. Buy the duel mac, it will probably work perfectly, but if you want to get ALOT more value for your money get a PC.

OK, let's see you come up with this value PC with Adobe Video Collection Pro and MS Office that is A LOT (2 words) better value.

 

[Caly]

Well I also like flexibility. I've never left my computer at defaults. I admit I like aesthetically pleasing things so I change interface colors, button styles, folder icons, etc.
I'd like to learn more Unix, I remember using some old Vax stuff for e-mail...
I'd like to try Linux as well, and still have access to Windows and Mac software.

Reading up on OSX it seems that one computer can run-
Mac system 9
Mac OSX
Open Source Unix
Linux
and Microsoft is coming out with Windows for the G5. kind of Ironic.

Of course I'd also like to connect with my boyfriend's PC from time to time and it looks like Macs can network with PCs without too much hassle.

Plus the software bundle looks good.
I may go to Monarch computers and try to price a similar PC myself. I don't think they do dual 64bit processors though? Is there a reason?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Caly

and Microsoft is coming out with Windows for the G5. kind of Ironic.

???

Got a url?

 

[0roo0roo]

8ram slots, thats nice, esp for graphics manipulation. either way, spending thousands on a gaming machine is expensive, so go by the practical aspects first. sims2 will be 3d, and i'm sure any 64bit system would be more then fast enough. people who like to claim cheap pc builds skimp on stability and exclude software costs much of the time. and damn, the g5 case is just sweet, there is no pc equiv. 9 o/s controlled smart fans that spin up in anticipation of heat even.

 

[Markfw]

Dual Opteron Workstation
No software to speak of, but I'm sure after a little work, you could find somewhere with a good package. This one is more without software than the G5, but overall power is much greater. Just thought I would find an example of one pre-built.

 

[0roo0roo]

No RAID

lol, i love how they list it as if it were a feature

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Dual Opteron Workstation
No software to speak of, but I'm sure after a little work, you could find somewhere with a good package. This one is more without software than the G5, but overall power is much greater. Just thought I would find an example of one pre-built.

No software at all, not even an OS. No DVD writer, no keyboard, no mouse, no modem, no firewire800, and 36GB of disk space for $4000, when the Apple above has all of that and more for $400 less. Yea, good package.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Caly Well I also like flexibility. I've never left my computer at defaults. I admit I like aesthetically pleasing things so I change interface colors, button styles, folder icons, etc.
I'd like to learn more Unix, I remember using some old Vax stuff for e-mail...
I'd like to try Linux as well, and still have access to Windows and Mac software.

Reading up on OSX it seems that one computer can run-
Mac system 9
Mac OSX
Open Source Unix
Linux
and Microsoft is coming out with Windows for the G5. kind of Ironic.

Of course I'd also like to connect with my boyfriend's PC from time to time and it looks like Macs can network with PCs without too much hassle.

Plus the software bundle looks good.
I may go to Monarch computers and try to price a similar PC myself. I don't think they do dual 64bit processors though? Is there a reason?

Sure they do, but you will only need a single Athlon 64 FX51 to compete with a dualie Mac.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112749,pg,8,00.asp

The dual Opterons are designed for server/workstation environments where multithreaded appliocations are the norm and are quite cost prohibitive for the benefit they offer the home user.

From reading these posts and doing a bit of shopping, it appears that by the time you get all the hardware and software assembled for the Athlon 64 FX51, you will be paying as much as you would for the Mac. Then again, it has been widely agreed that the FX51 based systems are overpriced in light if the performance offered by the Athlon 64 3400+.

Everyone on this thread has just assumed that the Athlon is the best option for you. However, since it appears that you are willing to spend top dollar for what you want, you might want to look into a Pentuim 4 3.2 GHz based system. Admittedly, the performance will not rival that of the Athlon 64 FX based system, but it will certainly compete favorably against the Mac. Plus, the current high performance Intel chipsets are mature and extremely stable, whereas the Athlon 64 chipsets still seem to require a bit of "ironing out".

Just another opinion (and option) since it didn't look like you were getting any from the Anandtech forums.

 

[Markfw]

Another place, configurable, for much less.
Ok, I don;t have time to research this, but in 2 minutes in Google, I found these two, the second one here came up at 3141. And yes, an FX-51 (single) can beat the dual G5 in many things. The dual Opteron can beat it in everything I would bet.

Edit, yes nitromullet, I agree, they are not in the same class. I guess my main point was made in your post above me, that the FX-51 or maybe even the 3400+, and definitely the Dual Opteron's are much faster than the G5, and if you shop, cost much less. The software is the big difference. If you need EVERYTHING in the software package the Mac comes with, then it may be a better deal.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Dual Opteron Workstation
No software to speak of, but I'm sure after a little work, you could find somewhere with a good package. This one is more without software than the G5, but overall power is much greater. Just thought I would find an example of one pre-built.

No software at all, not even an OS. No DVD writer, no keyboard, no mouse, no modem, no firewire800, and 36GB of disk space for $4000, when the Apple above has all of that and more for $400 less. Yea, good package.

You can't even compare these two, they are not on the same league and don't compete against each other. The dual Opteron doesn't come with an OS or any of the bells and whistles because most of these will end up in a business somewhere probably running Linux or BSD serving files or calculating some sort of mathematical formula all day, while the Mac is more likely to end up in someone's home office or living room doing home office or living room computer type stuff.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Dual Opteron Workstation
No software to speak of, but I'm sure after a little work, you could find somewhere with a good package. This one is more without software than the G5, but overall power is much greater. Just thought I would find an example of one pre-built.

No software at all, not even an OS. No DVD writer, no keyboard, no mouse, no modem, no firewire800, and 36GB of disk space for $4000, when the Apple above has all of that and more for $400 less. Yea, good package.

You can't even compare these two, they are not on the same league and don't compete against each other. The dual Opteron doesn't come with an OS or any of the bells and whistles because most of these will end up in a business somewhere probably running Linux or BSD serving files or calculating some sort of mathematical formula all day, while the Mac is more likely to end up in someone's home office or living room doing home office or living room computer type stuff.

So then why recommend it to someone who is going to be using graphics apps and games?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

So then why recommend it to someone who is going to be using graphics apps and games?

not sure, I'm not the one who recommended it

I would send her to www.alienware.com to find a comparable system.

Also, to all of you who have been citing the marvelous software package that comes with the Mac, take note that almost anything worth jack in that bundle ends with the word "trial", "test drive", or is freeware already.

For example, here are the details on MS Office Test Drive, EarthLink software can be found at almost any computer store, and I haven't seen a computer in years that didn't come with a browser (Safari) or a mail client (called "Mail", which is actually GNUMail I believe). I have no idea what "Classic environment and Apple Developer Tools" means...

 

[GL]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

For example, here are the details on MS Office Test Drive, EarthLink software can be found at almost any computer store, and I haven't seen a computer in years that didn't come with a browser (Safari) or a mail client (called "Mail", which is actually GNUMail I believe). I have no idea what "Classic environment and Apple Developer Tools" means...

Mail is Apple's own client, a derivative of NeXT's Mail client, not GNUMail. Also, iLife is a wonderful suite of software to come pre-installed on a computer. Office is indeed only a trial edition, but most of the software bundle is not trial software.

 

[Snoop]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: Snoop

What I wanted to see was the price comparison. But it seems that the high-end Macs are actually priced competitively.

This is absolutely false, but it seems people on this board would be willing to argue whether the sky is blue. Buy the duel mac, it will probably work perfectly, but if you want to get ALOT more value for your money get a PC.

OK, let's see you come up with this value PC with Adobe Video Collection Pro and MS Office that is A LOT (2 words) better value.

Where does it say in her post that the apple comes with adobe video collection pro? As far as I can tell on apples site, AVCP is a 1200 dollar addition, but maybe you know something i don?t know?

As i posted above:

www.abspc.com, top ten on Resellar Ratings, run by the same people at newegg
Athlon 64 3400+ (arguably faster than the duel g5's)
1.5 gigabytes of corsair memory (512 megs more ram)
2 160 gigabyte Western Digital SE drives (Double the hard drive space)
Antec Performance Plusview LE (Limited Edition) Case
Gigabyte GA-K8NPRO Motherboard
Gigabit lan onboard (Same as apple)
Latest FIREWIRE IEEE1394B (800) (same as apple)
ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB 256-bit DDR DVI/TV (faster video card)
Audigy 2 Sound (Most likely better than the apple solution, but I am ignorant of their sound setups)
DVD drive (extra drive for copying direct from cd>cd
DVD burner 4x
Logitech Z-640 5.1 Surround speakers (Better than NO speakers which the apple provides)
Logitech Cordless MX Duo (cordless mouse and Keyboard) (Much better than the default apple keyboard and mouse, IMO)
Microsoft Office Professional 2003 Ed. (Mac comes with Office v.x Testdrive which is only DEMO software, and is useful for 30days)
Windows xp pro
McAfee VirusScan Version 8.0

2600.00
-400.00 to equalize for office x edition
2200

So we have 1400 dollars delta to acquire the software which she wants.

"Mac OS X v 10.3 "Panther", iLife (including iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD), QuickBooks for Mac New User Edition, Zinio Reader, Art Directors Toolkit, Microsoft Office v.X Test Drive, FileMaker Pro Trial, OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, Graphic Converter, Safari, QuickTime, iChat, iCal, iSync, DVD Player, Mail, EarthLink, Acrobat Reader, Classic environment and Apple Developer Tools"

OSX-> Windows XP pro
Ilife-> who cares
Quickbooks for mac "new user edition ->Does she really need this software? ok -180.00
Zinio reader-> I think the reader software is free, maybe mac gives you a free trial?
Art Directors Toolkit -> again is this software needed, I have NO idea what to replace this with so lets guess 150 dollars for a PC equivalent
Microsoft Office v.X Test Drive-> This is a free 30 day trial, if she wants the full version it will cost 400, Office2003 pro is already included with the pc, plus you get outlook instead of Enterouge<yuck
FileMaker Pro Trial -> another free suite
OmniGraffle-> Replace this with Microsoft Visio 200, again, is this software needed?
Safari ->pfff, quicktime -> quicktime pro 30 (is the full version needed for anything?
iChat-iCal-iSync-DVD Player-Mail-EarthLink-Acrobat Reader-Classic environment and Apple Developer Tools -> riff raff

Mac
3600 + 400 (for full office) = 4000
PC
2600 + 560 (for more capable software) 3160

840 is ALOT more in my opinion. PLUS, the pc will come with a full version (when released) of Half Life 2, which is around 50

 

[Pariah]

You're getting closer to making a good argument.

"Ilife-> who cares"

Interesting, you don't know what it is, so you just write it off. Go read up on it, and you'll see why I include Adobe Video Collection Pro. If you're aware of another well integrated software suite that does the same thing for less, I'd like to see it. I did miss that Office was a demo, but I don't see why the PC gets the OEM version, while the Mac gets the retail version. The OEM version is about $100 cheaper. I don't know if the OEM version applies, but Apple is giving a free upgrade to the next version of office for the next few months. I don't really see how you are deciding what software the original poster needs either. Did you get ask her? When you match everything up, the price difference will not be much. And I think that basically everyone agrees that the Apple presentation and package, software and hardware, is much more well integrated since it basically comes from the same company than on the PC side. There are very few people I would recommend an Apple to. But every once in a while there are people with certain needs and the right budget that makes an Apple perfect sense, and I think this is one of those cases.

I've never heard of ABS either. They may be a great company, but most people who don't know what they are buying prefer to buy from a company they have heard of.