Primary reason for HL2 delay was not Source leak. Foul play by ATi and Gabe?!

[kingmike]

With all of the magazines and such giving unconfirmed release dates or general times of release. I have come to the conclusion that when it goes GOLD, only then will I know a release date is close

 

[BFG10K]

I don't know what you just read but quote unquote

Obviously you didn't read it carefully because the quote contradicts itself:

...the fundamental reason was because we underestimated the amount of work left to do and how long it was going to take, especially when the team were so demoralised after the leak."

So if there was no leak the team wouldn't have been demoralised and the game would have been finished sooner. So in actual fact the entire news commentary is founded on a contradiction since the leak did cause a problem.

BTW, this has everything to do with video since the voucher was bundled with a video card

Show me where the voucher is mentioned in the phrase "Gabe is a dick".

with discussing how much better PS2 games run on ATi hardware in this forum.

Exactly. What is this discussing? It's discussing why a game was delayed. Absolutely nothing to do with video.

 

[Jeff7181]

And ya called me an idiot when I said... stolen source code, pffft, pretty convenient that the source code gets stolen and they get to spend an additional 6-9 months developing it huh?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I don't know what you just read but quote unquote

Obviously you didn't read it carefully because the quote contradicts itself:

...the fundamental reason was because we underestimated the amount of work left to do and how long it was going to take, especially when the team were so demoralised after the leak."

So if there was no leak the team wouldn't have been demoralised and the game would have been finished sooner. So in actual fact the entire news commentary is founded on a contradiction since the leak did cause a problem.

BTW, this has everything to do with video since the voucher was bundled with a video card

Show me where the voucher is mentioned in the phrase "Gabe is a dick".

with discussing how much better PS2 games run on ATi hardware in this forum.

Exactly. What is this discussing? It's discussing why a game was delayed. Absolutely nothing to do with video.

The game voucher was bundled with ATi hardware Now, what part of No don't you understand? He asked Newell himself if the leak was the main reason and he said no deal with it or don't but that's just the kind of spin I expected.

 

[BFG10K]

The game voucher was bundled with ATi hardware

And?

He asked Newell himself if the leak was the main reason and he said no deal with it or don't but that's just the kind of spin I expected.

Answer the question: did the leak cause a delay in the software or not? Yes or no?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm not an unreasonable man, of course it played a part as he said so and there are obviouis security reasons that would delay it. You are quite correct. That does not negate what else he said, which is that it wasn't the primary reason for delays. Something else to consider is that the present dealy isn't just to deal with problems arising from the code theft but to tune the game as well. The head of the company producing the game says they miscaculated and just didn't fully comprehend what they were getting into when they made anouncements of it's forthcoming release. They have found it's requiring far more time and effort than they imagined and are not going to release it until it's ready for primetime. That is a reasonable senario but I 'm extremely cynical in this age of corporate misconduct so you'll just have to live with the fact some of us believe there was collusion and *at the time* hidden agendas at play.

 

[VIAN]

In any case I love it how nVidia fanboys are now using this to discredit Gabe and call him a liar about his anti-nVidia comments. Make no mistake, nVidia was cheating at the time (and are possible doing so today as well) and ATi's SM 2.0 performance was superior across the board. The fact that the game slipped makes no difference to the fact that Gabe knows what he's talking about when it comes to 3D coding.

I'm not an Nvidia fanboy. It is obvious what happened. Gabe made one game and he knows everything now, right?

And finally, this topic should be in software since it has absolutely nothing to do with video. Yet again VIAN is using the forum as his personal dumping ground.

You're right, this topic has nothing to do with the video forum because the fact that Gabe increased graphics card sales for ATi and trashed Nvidia's camp doesn't have anything to do with video. Let me change the title for you.

With all of the magazines and such giving unconfirmed release dates or general times of release. I have come to the conclusion that when it goes GOLD, only then will I know a release date is close

Didn't the game go gold. I remember it being a week from release or something deadly close to release.

Obviously you didn't read it carefully because the quote contradicts itself:

quote:
...the fundamental reason was because we underestimated the amount of work left to do and how long it was going to take, especially when the team were so demoralised after the leak."


So if there was no leak the team wouldn't have been demoralised and the game would have been finished sooner. So in actual fact the entire news commentary is founded on a contradiction since the leak did cause a problem.

Then Gabe is an idiot. Who contradicts themselves in the same sentence. Either the leak was a major part of the delay or it wasn't.

Show me where the voucher is mentioned in the phrase "Gabe is a dick".

That is not a direct quote, I said "Gabe Newell is a D|ck." and then the phrase after that, "Possibly ATI too." This shows some connection. You are too literal and you only choose which phrases to reply with to attempt to prove your point. Can you not make the connection?

Exactly. What is this discussing? It's discussing why a game was delayed. Absolutely nothing to do with video.

BFB10K's Brain cannot connect the post. Please check your connection and try again.

I'm not an unreasonable man, of course it played a part as he said so and there are obviouis security reasons that would delay it. You are quite correct. That does not negate what else he said, which is that it wasn't the primary reason for delays. Something else to consider is that the present dealy isn't just to deal with problems arising from the code theft but to tune the game as well. The head of the company producing the game says they miscaculated and just didn't fully comprehend what they were getting into when they made anouncements of it's forthcoming release. They have found it's requiring far more time and effort than they imagined and are not going to release it until it's ready for primetime. That is a reasonable senario but I 'm extremely cynical in this age of corporate misconduct so you'll just have to live with the fact some of us believe there was collusion and *at the time* hidden agendas at play.

nicely said

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Lying about a game being released and including a voucher to sell people ATi cards and generate revenue to keep Valve's ship afloat, while slandering the competition in the same breath is worse than cheating on a synthetic bench IMO. I've posted before I believe they scammed people for those very purposes, so I'm not at all surprised they lied and cheated the public and their faithful customers. I hope the wheel of Karma kicks 'em right in the nuts.

when people bought those cards that included the voucher they knew that there was a wait period of unknown time until they got the game

Dude, most believed they would be playing HL2 on the card they bought the voucher with. At the very least a playable demo by Sept. of '03 it may be a full year from that date before they see the game. I noticed you are selling a 9800pro, upgrading to a r420 card are we? I fear many who believed they would be playing HL2 on thier 9600XT w/voucher won't have that card by the time the game gets here Worse yet, it'll probably run craptacular on a 9600XT*just a guess* thanks to the tweaking they are doing to the game now.

Of course ATi and Valve made a killing on the scam, I thought this was amusing link

Rollo, what did your efforts get you? That's right, they labeled you fanboy and dubbed you Trollo :disgust: Now those same blindly loyal followers will post here to defend, rationalize, and spin this obvious scam by which they were duped :roll: No one likes to be the sucker born every minute so they will deny, deny, deny! :laugh: Bring on the flames, I'm Johnny Storm:The Human Torch baby! :sun:

point well taken, but in all fairness, niether ATi nor Valve guaranteed that HL2 will be released on a particular date

 

[vshah]

i bought a 9800xt back in the day, because of the hl2 coupon. when the release was pushed back, i sold it and decided to wait for next gen. i don't think its fair to include vouchers for a game if its not going to be out within a reasonable amount of time. of course, everyone has a different definition of reasonable, but 6 months is definately pushing it.

on another note, if you have more than...say 5 quotes in your post, you should realize you're getting into a pointless argument and quit while you're ahead....

$0.02

-Vivan

 

[Killrose]

I don't think it was a scam really, it was of course a teaser to get people to buy their product though. I doubt Ati is very happy about this long of a delay. And if Valve went bankrupt, Ati would have a huge lawsuit on their hands. Not very fun, and i'm sure Ati is aware of this would'nt you think?

I think what Ati should do right now, is offer anyone with a HL2 voucher at least $50 off the purchase of any X800 based product, customers would use the HL2 voucher as a discount coupon. They need to do something.

Once HL2 comes out the exsisting vouchers are nearly as good as cash, as long as you find someone who wants to play HL2 of course.

 

[nemesismk2]

I personally think all of the people unhappy about the way they have been treated by ATI should RMA their video cards and demand a refund. They can then use the money to purchase one of the new video cards from NVIDIA instead!

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
By the time HL2 comes out, all the ATi fanbois are gonna 5 coupons and they can play their horribly outdated graphics in multiplayer with themselves on dual core opteron systems.

In other words, i dont expect HL2 this year either.

Leave Operton outta this It has nothing to do with this mess....

and if anything they'd be using Intel chips since ATI will have intel chipsets to "improve" the preformance of their games

 

[Blastman]

Gosh ?VIAN ..cry me a river. Do you even have a HL2 voucher?

I?ve got a HL2 voucher with my 9600XT and while its been a bit of a wait it really doesn?t bother me. It was a bonus for me because I was going to get a 9600XT anyway -- as is the case I suspect for most people that bought an ATI card with the HL2 voucher.

It seems Valve wants to add more content to the game to make it better -- so by waiting we will get a better product in the end anyways. I?m all for it. The content in some of these new games is vast and they are a huge undertaking. It?s inevitable a lot of them will suffer big delays.

 

[nemesismk2]

I just sent an email to ATI PR department asking a few questions about their Half Life 2 marketing. I doubt I will get a reply because I used words like dubious, marketing and scam in one sentence. I also asked them why their new video cards are technologically retarded compared to the advanced geforce 6800 range.

 

[VIAN]

I do not have a HL2 voucher. I don't care about it, just annoyed me how close the game was to release. It was unnecessary hype of release.

I also asked them why their new video cards are technologically retarded compared to the advanced geforce 6800 range.

ATI features aren't all that bad.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: VIAN
I do not have a HL2 voucher. I don't care about it, just annoyed me how close the game was to release. It was unnecessary hype of release.

I also asked them why their new video cards are technologically retarded compared to the advanced geforce 6800 range.

ATI features aren't all that bad.

I always like to wind up PR people, if they are annoyed they are more likely to let something important slip out!

 

[ShinX]

Like I said before , Gabe Newell is a FAT idiot that likes ti delay stuff , Gordon Freeman should beat his jellyroll ass with a crowbar

 

[superbooga]

A few weeks, the webmaster (at that time) of PlanetHalfLife.com basically said he was quitting the web site, mostly because he was fed up with the treatment of Valve towards it's fan base. To sum it up, people with insider info knew for a LONG TIME that HL2 was nowhere near completion, and even worse, Valve kept insisting there was no delay, until the last second.

Hold on, let me see if I can dig up the post:

http://www.forumplanet.com/planethalflife/topic.asp?fid=6549&tid=1352802

In summary, Gabe Newell and Valve might be very talented, but they are total jerks in real life and in business.

 

[nRollo]

Rollo, what did your efforts get you? That's right, they labeled you fanboy and dubbed you Trollo Now those same blindly loyal followers will post here to defend, rationalize, and spin this obvious scam by which they were duped No one likes to be the sucker born every minute so they will deny, deny, deny! Bring on the flames, I'm Johnny Storm:The Human Torch baby!

LOL- you're right about some, some seemed to get it.

Last summer when you were using your 5800U, how many people told you "You'll get yours when the PS2 games come out!"?

Here it is- a year later, one or two PS2 games, the guys who bought 5800/5900s no worse for the choice except in those two games. (and it took a year for that to happen!)

The best were those guys that yelped- "The 9600Pro is faster than the 5900U!" based on Shady Days. That was priceless.

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I just sent an email to ATI PR department asking a few questions about their Half Life 2 marketing. I doubt I will get a reply because I used words like dubious, marketing and scam in one sentence. I also asked them why their new video cards are technologically retarded compared to the advanced geforce 6800 range.

 

[DragonFire]

As long as HL2 doesnt turn into Duke Nukem Forever, I'll be happy.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

i dont much care that the game is not out yet...nor is doom3.....i doubt my rig could handle either very well, though benches with a 9500pro like mine showed very nice at average res and detail certainly AA and AF is out of the question.....also the review sites always have a killer rig to test on. i suspect the rest of my rig would jus explode as soon as i load either game up.

also these games are obviously being updated constantly.......HL2 looked fantastic, now farcry and stalker are out well farcry, and it doesnt look so good anymore

it was wrong to push the fact that it will be released soon when it wasnt ready, and wrong to side with ATI and thus help them in sales. Nvidia as much as they have done wrong didnt deserve to buy dissed by sayin their hardware jus couldnt cut it.

 

[jim1976]

You know somethin ppl? If you don't like Gabe or HL2, be my guest and don't buy it.
I bought my 9800pro especially for HL2,which I anticipated and I still do. The only ppl who have the right to complain are the ATI owners with the coupons. But don't tell me that they bought these cards just for HL2. These cards ARE BETTER COMPARED TO THE NV3xx series, that's the main reason.

On the other hand I don't even understand why NVIDIA fanboys are so hypocritical!!!!!!!!
Given the fact that even high end NVIDIA cards would have been A JOKE regarding performance in HL2, Valve had to postpone their release.
Even if they had a marketing alliance with ATI, they couldn't ignore this large consumer share (NVIDIA owners).
Most of you are talkin about marketing. So explain this to me.
Just because a company has a marketing alliance with another company means that they will ignore (50% +) of pc gamers and consequently such a company as Nvidia is? Do you grasp how unproffesional and unprofitable that is?
Valve can't stand as a company if they ignore Nvidia owners. So they HAD TO COME UP with an excuse, till the new cards arrive and save NVIDIA's reputation and of course a very significant profitable income.
Because alliance is one thing, but future walfare of a company is another.
Things don't work as you see them. ATI might have pushed them to release the game earlier, but THEY HAD TO WAIT and come up with an excuse. They are not dependant on a single marketing alliance, THEY HAVE A FUTURE TOO YOU KNOW. And ignoring NVIDIA would mathematically lead them to undesired goals for the future.
Respect and count everyone otherwise you're a lost case in the market. That's the first and most important rule in marketing survival

So I'll say it again. You are insane if you believe Gabe is a loser. He's a perfectionist smart fvcker who cares for his company most of all, and quite frankly I'll give him the credit for that.
I HIGHLY ANTICIPATE HL2, even though I won't be able to play it so good, as I would if it was released in its programmed date. Guess what?
That's real life and if you are so ignorant and pissed and cannot accept it, you better start reconsidering your thoughts...

*I don't see Nvidia fanboyz talkin about the delay of DOOM3? What? They didn't give an official released date huh? Ohh plz give me a fvckin break here....

 

[Marsumane]

Originally posted by: jim1976
You know somethin ppl? If you don't like Gabe or HL2, be my guest and don't buy it.
I bought my 9800pro especially for HL2,which I anticipated and I still do. The only ppl who have the right to complain are the ATI owners with the coupons. But don't tell me that they bought these cards just for HL2. These cards ARE BETTER COMPARED TO THE NV3xx series, that's the main reason.

On the other hand I don't even understand why NVIDIA fanboys are so hypocritical!!!!!!!!
Given the fact that even high end NVIDIA cards would have been A JOKE regarding performance in HL2, Valve had to postpone their release.
Even if they had a marketing alliance with ATI, they couldn't ignore this large consumer share (NVIDIA owners).
Most of you are talkin about marketing. So explain this to me.
Just because a company has a marketing alliance with another company means that they will ignore (50% +) of pc gamers and consequently such a company as Nvidia is? Do you grasp how unproffesional and unprofitable that is?
Valve can't stand as a company if they ignore Nvidia owners. So they HAD TO COME UP with an excuse, till the new cards arrive and save NVIDIA's reputation and of course a very significant profitable income.
Because alliance is one thing, but future walfare of a company is another.
Things don't work as you see them. ATI might have pushed them to release the game earlier, but THEY HAD TO WAIT and come up with an excuse. They are not dependant on a single marketing alliance, THEY HAVE A FUTURE TOO YOU KNOW. And ignoring NVIDIA would mathematically lead them to undesired goals for the future.
Respect and count everyone otherwise you're a lost case in the market. That's the first and most important rule in marketing survival

So I'll say it again. You are insane if you believe Gabe is a loser. He's a perfectionist smart fvcker who cares for his company most of all, and quite frankly I'll give him the credit for that.
I HIGHLY ANTICIPATE HL2, even though I won't be able to play it so good, as I would if it was released in its programmed date. Guess what?
That's real life and if you are so ignorant and pissed and cannot accept it, you better start reconsidering your thoughts...

*I don't see Nvidia fanboyz talkin about the delay of DOOM3? What? They didn't give an official released date huh? Ohh plz give me a fvckin break here....

I agree with most of what u have to say, except for the end part about doom3. Basically people's complaints revolve around the fact that the hype around HL2 made u think things that werent entirely true. I cant think of any other game that has ever done this by causing this much hype so far ahead of its release date. I find it a bit rediculous that he underestamated that much. Carmack on the other hand, has always kept saying "it will be out when its done" and OTHER people have speculated on its release date. Far less marketing and bashing from ID compared to Valve. So i guess im just saying that its how insistant and manipulative they were with their marketing strategy compared to ID's that turns me off.

 

[Acanthus]

ID hasnt even updated the Doom 3 website yet for launch, the doom 3 hype is created by the community, the HL2 hype is created by Gabe, and valve has missed 2 tentative release dates now.