PrimeGrid Challenges 2021

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Icecold

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The tasks take a long time(15+ hours), but it would likely be faster if you did 2 12 or 24 thread tasks at a time instead of 3. It all depends on how much cache the processor has, but a 3950x or 5950x has the best throughput with 2 tasks at a time and from what I can tell your processor has a similar amount of cache. If you can post the exact model number of the processor, though, I can confirm.

5950x's do particularly well, so if your 5950x is available that would probably perform much better than what you're currently using. You would want to configure it with 8 threads per task(on the Primegrid website) and then set BOINC to only use 50% of CPU's so it's not using the SMT threads. 3900x's and 3950x's do well too, but the 5950x is definitely faster. AVX2 capable Xeons(Haswell or newer) do really well too.
 

Markfw

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The tasks take a long time(15+ hours), but it would likely be faster if you did 2 12 or 24 thread tasks at a time instead of 3. It all depends on how much cache the processor has, but a 3950x or 5950x has the best throughput with 2 tasks at a time and from what I can tell your processor has a similar amount of cache. If you can post the exact model number of the processor, though, I can confirm.

5950x's do particularly well, so if your 5950x is available that would probably perform much better than what you're currently using. You would want to configure it with 8 threads per task(on the Primegrid website) and then set BOINC to only use 50% of CPU's so it's not using the SMT threads. 3900x's and 3950x's do well too, but the 5950x is definitely faster. AVX2 capable Xeons(Haswell or newer) do really well too.
I have a EPYC 7401P 24 cores, 2.4 ghz, and an EPYC 7551 32 core 2.4ghz, not sure the cache sizes. The 7401 says about 33 hours total, the 7551 says 33 hours for one task and 44 hours for the other 3. EPYC runs slow compared to 3950x/5950x.

Not sure on actual cache sizes, that could be why the 7551 is so slow, sharing the same cache with 32 threads instead of 24 ?
 

Icecold

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If those are Naples(which I think they are) and not Rome that's a big part of it too. Most(all?) Primegrid tasks can use AVX, AVX2, or AVX-512 if the processor supports it, and it speeds things up quite a bit. AVX-512 is fairly uncommon since it's only on some higher end newer Intel CPU's, but AVX2/FMA3 is on most Intel processors that are Haswell or newer, and any AMD that is Zen2 or newer(as far as I know). Zen1's implementation of AVX is really slow from what I know.

A single 3950x, 5950x, or Xeon would probably be significantly quicker than a 24/48 thread Naples CPU. My dual processor Xeon(28 core, 56 thread Haswell Xeon) running 1 task per CPU is cranking out tasks faster than even my 5950x, but it does use more power.
 

Markfw

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If those are Naples(which I think they are) and not Rome that's a big part of it too. Most(all?) Primegrid tasks can use AVX, AVX2, or AVX-512 if the processor supports it, and it speeds things up quite a bit. AVX-512 is fairly uncommon since it's only on some higher end newer Intel CPU's, but AVX2/FMA3 is on most Intel processors that are Haswell or newer, and any AMD that is Zen2 or newer(as far as I know). Zen1's implementation of AVX is really slow from what I know.

A single 3950x, 5950x, or Xeon would probably be significantly quicker than a 24/48 thread Naples CPU. My dual processor Xeon(28 core, 56 thread Haswell Xeon) running 1 task per CPU is cranking out tasks faster than even my 5950x, but it does use more power.
well, I would need to change those over. I have 2 5950x/'s and 1 3950x's. At least they would not need me to reconfigure.
 

Icecold

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I'm pretty sure in @biodoc 's testing 2 16 thread tasks on a 3950x or 5950x performed very well and was similar to running 2 8 thread tasks without SMT. If you switch over a 3950x or 5950x they should run well with your current configuration where it would run 2 16 thread tasks. Up to you on what you want to run, though, I wasn't trying to pressure you to switch over more machines just giving some performance information
 

Markfw

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OK, I added the 5950x's and the 3950x. Lets see what happens this time tomorrow.

Can this be right ? The 3950 finished a unit in 10 minutes ? And the 5950x's will take 9 minutes ???? I might as well turn the EPYCS back once they finish their first units.
 
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Icecold

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Icecold

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OK, I added the 5950x's and the 3950x. Lets see what happens this time tomorrow.

Can this be right ? The 3950 finished a unit in 10 minutes ? And the 5950x's will take 9 minutes ???? I might as well turn the EPYCS back once they finish their first units.
There are some 'double check' tasks that are just confirming the first task is correct that are way shorter and less points. A normal task on any machine is probably 15-24 hours long or longer.
 

Markfw

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There are some 'double check' tasks that are just confirming the first task is correct that are way shorter and less points. A normal task on any machine is probably 15-24 hours long or longer.
All 3 boxes are getting nothing but those ??????
 

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Icecold

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All 3 boxes are getting nothing but those ??????
Don't worry, you'll get long ones sooner or later!

@crashtech is right, you'll get 12+ hour ones soon enough. It's somewhat of a crapshoot on what you get, Stefan has 80 tasks that are worth more points than the 118 tasks I have since a bunch of mine were the double checker tasks. @Skillz has 422 tasks but has less points than the #!1 person who has 273, etc. The short tasks are somewhat similar PPD though.
 

Markfw

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@crashtech is right, you'll get 12+ hour ones soon enough. It's somewhat of a crapshoot on what you get, Stefan has 80 tasks that are worth more points than the 118 tasks I have since a bunch of mine were the double checker tasks. @Skillz has 422 tasks but has less points than the #!1 person who has 273, etc. The short tasks are somewhat similar PPD though.
OK< updated the image. 9 hours for the 5950x's and 11 hours for the 3950x.

Damn those things are fast.

BTW, all are stock. One of the 5950x's has 4000 memory running at 3800/1900, the other is 3600/1800
 
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Markfw

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I added a 7452, Rome 32 core. Looks like 18 1/2 hours.

Edit: I have over 1.5 million credit from one 5950x, he other is 3,000 and the 3950x is 2000. Very odd scoring.

And the 16 core 5950x does more than the 32 core 7452 Rome, PPD wise.
 
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StefanR5R

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And the 16 core 5950x does more than the 32 core 7452 Rome, PPD wise.
Well, with such long tasks it will take a while until the PPD converge to some sort of average, but technically it may be plausible that the 5950X comes out ahead.
  • Each PSP-LLR task works on approximately 20 MBytes of active data. (The bulk of its computing time is spent in a Fast Fourier Transform, and PSP-LLR's FFT data are that big.)
  • The 5950X has got two last-level cache segments: 2× 32 MBytes large.
  • The 7452 has got 8× 16 MBytes last-level cache segments.
So the 7452 has more cache in total than the 5950X, but unfortunately each of the cache segments of the 7452 is too small to hold an entire set of the LLR FFT data of one task. This means that the 7452 has to perform a lot more synchronization between CCXs, and a lot more memory accesses than the 5950X.

Now, 7452 has got 8 DDR4 RAM channels while the 5950X has got just 2 channels. (I assume you populated all of the channels in your EPYC computer.) This helps the 7452 but doesn't save it: Cache access is still a lot faster than RAM access.

Furthermore, 7452 has got a 155 W PPT limit, while 5950X has "only" 142 W PPT limit. (Both are the default values; 7452's can be increased to 180 W in the BIOS, and 5950X's can be increased to… I don't know, the moon?) But of these 155 W, the 7452 has to spend a good deal on inter-CCX communication and RAM I/O in case of PSP-LLR, whereas the 5950X can spend most of its 142 W on actual computation.

Granted, the 5950X has got only half of the core count than 7452. But a) 5950X's Zen 3 cores are a bit wider than 7452's Zen 2 cores, b) LLR uses a lot of FMA3 operations which are so power hungry, that the actual number of FMA execution units is a lot less important than the power (in Watts) which can be pumped through these units.

PS,
back in June when there was the ESP-LLR challenge, the tasks had only 15 MBytes FFT data. The Zen 2 cache arrangement was much better suited to those somewhat smaller tasks. But to reach top performance on Zen 2 with those 15 MBytes sized tasks, one had to coerce the operating system a little bit to really keep each task running on cores which are attached to the same cache segment; IOW prevent the OS from spreading one task across cache segments which would involve costly synchronization.

Edit:
I have a EPYC 7401P 24 cores, 2.4 ghz, and an EPYC 7551 32 core 2.4ghz, not sure the cache sizes.
Both have 8× 8 MBytes level-3 caches. But not just this is a handicap for them at PrimeGrid, but also the fact that Zen 1 cores have got only about half of the FMA execution bandwidth of Zen 2 cores.

AMD CPUs before Zen 2 and Intel CPUs before Haswell are not working well for PrimeGrid workloads.
 
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Ken g6

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I keep forgetting to post stats.

Day 3-ish stats:
Rank___Credits____Username
3______8747726____Skillz
5______6368865____xii5ku
7______4888558____crashtech
8______4487273____Icecold
27_____1282076____biodoc
28_____1251468____parsnip soup in a clay
31_____1146011____emoga
41_____867083_____Orange Kid
50_____797549_____markfw
95_____360722_____Skivelitis2
131____208125_____Ken_g6
176____85169______Lane42
177____84887______Howdy
204____42086______Kiska
233____37197______SlangNRox

Rank__Credits____Team
1_____32614525___Antarctic Crunchers
2_____30654802___TeAm AnandTech
3_____20876950___SETI.Germany
4_____16357125___Czech National Team
5_____14598620___AMD Users

I'll be out tomorrow and I won't be able to post then either.
 

HutchinsonJC

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I glanced over the last couple of pages of this thread & read the instructions in the thread started by Skillz:
"PrimeGrid: Help AnAndTech while testing your thermal cooling"

I'm on a 5950x and on the primegrid site I've setup an account, the team, and the bluemoon challenge as the only challenge check marked (by default there was something else checked and I unchecked whatever it was). I setup 2 Tasks & 8 Threads per Task in the PrimeGrid preferences.

I downloaded the BOINC client and chose PrimeGrid, logged in, and in the Computing Preferences I chose 50% for CPU Time as my understanding from reading is that this will make the client use all 16 cores and not smt threads.

Sounds right? Miss anything?
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Thanks for joining in! The 5950X is built as if AMD optimized it specifically for PrimeGrid. :-)
Your setting of 2 tasks at once, with 8 threads per task, is optimal from what I recall. (I don't have a 5950X myself.)

There are two independent settings for CPU usage:
  • "Use at most N % of the CPUs" (or something like that, I'm not in front of a boincing coputer right now): Here you'd want to set 50 %. — Although if you have set a maximum of 2 tasks in progress in the project preferences on the PrimeGrid website already (the "Max # of simultaneous PrimeGrid tasks" setting), then you could as well leave the setting of the CPU count at 100 %. The PrimeGrid server will take care then that there won't be more than 2 tasks on your computer at any point in time.
  • "Use at most N % CPU time" (or similar): Leave this at 100 %. The effect of lowering this setting would be that the boinc client would start and stop and start and stop and start and stop... the science application periodically, all of the presently running tasks at once.
    Well, if there are cooling problems, this setting could help if in a pinch. But lowering the processor clock or the power limit would be a more appropriate solution to such a problem.
 
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Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
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Dec 11, 1999
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Early day 4-ish stats, while I have the time:

Rank___Credits____Username
3______13436613___Skillz
5______9068475____xii5ku
7______5855135____crashtech
8______5409213____Icecold
17_____3206968____parsnip soup in a clay
28_____1608962____emoga
30_____1533874____biodoc
36_____1348740____markfw
44_____1072630____Orange Kid
90_____487499_____Skivelitis2
112____331789_____Ken_g6
161____167179_____Lane42
200____84887______Howdy
231____42086______Kiska
253____37197______SlangNRox

Rank__Credits____Team
1_____43691253___TeAm AnandTech
2_____42139803___Antarctic Crunchers
3_____27396652___SETI.Germany
4_____21027270___Czech National Team

We're building some speed now.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,129
15,274
136
Early day 4-ish stats, while I have the time:

Rank___Credits____Username
3______13436613___Skillz
5______9068475____xii5ku
7______5855135____crashtech
8______5409213____Icecold
17_____3206968____parsnip soup in a clay
28_____1608962____emoga
30_____1533874____biodoc
36_____1348740____markfw
44_____1072630____Orange Kid
90_____487499_____Skivelitis2
112____331789_____Ken_g6
161____167179_____Lane42
200____84887______Howdy
231____42086______Kiska
253____37197______SlangNRox

Rank__Credits____Team
1_____43691253___TeAm AnandTech
2_____42139803___Antarctic Crunchers
3_____27396652___SETI.Germany
4_____21027270___Czech National Team

We're building some speed now.
I added 2 3900x (only 16 of the 24 cores each), so 32 more cores. 304 total.

Edit: One of my 3900x's is running 12 tasks !!! I said read config files, so what is doing this ? All the other boxes are dooing 16 cpu's per task.
 

Icecold

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2004
1,100
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146
I added 2 3900x (only 16 of the 24 cores each), so 32 more cores. 304 total.

Edit: One of my 3900x's is running 12 tasks !!! I said read config files, so what is doing this ? All the other boxes are dooing 16 cpu's per task.
Is that specific 3900x possibly in a different 'location' under your Primegrid preferences? If you go on the Primegrid website --> Your Account --> Select View next to 'computers on this account' it will show you a list of all computers on your account and what 'location' they are set to. If it's set to a different location it will get different settings than the other computers.
 
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