Prince dead? -- confirmed

[who?]

There are reports of heroin being cut with fentanyl made in drug cartel labs to make the heroin more addictive or potent. If you buy stuff on the street it's hard to know who to trust. No I don't know where Prince got whatever.

 

[pcgeek11]

What about legalizing all drugs?

Then we would / could have a lot more of this.

 

[Eli]

What about legalizing all drugs?

Then we would / could have a lot more of this.

I'm all for legalizing drugs, but when you need to be a certified pharmacologist with a microgram scale to properly dose yourself.....what could possibly go wrong? Even extensive education, which I generally believe is the answer, isn't going to help.

I can pretty safely say that fentanyl shouldn't be on the streets and not feel too hypocritical about it.

 

[pcgeek11]

How about Meth? Is that OK?

Same results only much slower.

 

[zinfamous]

How about Meth? Is that OK?

Same results only much slower.

The arguments for legalizing drugs always come with strict regulations.

I don't understand the point of your question--how legalizing exceedingly dangerous classes of narcotics would carry the same class of regs as harmless pot.

 

[Linux23]

Dam man fucking overdose.

 

[Thump553]

From everything I have read Prince was pretty much against any type of recreational drug use. he had physical problems (necessitating a hip replacement a few years back), this sounds like a repeat of the Michael Jackson death scenario. It will be interesting to see how it plays out via his doctors, etc. His doctor's office and records have already been searched and the doctor fired by his group like a hot potato.

I was never a big fan of 99% of Prince's music but it is still a damn shame.

 

[IGBT]

Fentanyl (also known as fentanil, brand names Sublimaze,[6] Actiq, Durogesic, Duragesic, Fentora, Matrifen, Haldid, Onsolis,[7] Instanyl,[8] Abstral,[9] Lazanda[10] and others[11]) is a potent, synthetic opioid analgesic with a rapid onset and short duration of action.[12] It is a strong agonist at the μ-opioid receptors. Fentanyl is approximately 80 to 100 times more potent than morphine and roughly 40 to 50 times more potent than pharmaceutical grade (100% pure) heroin.[13][14]


Wondering why he was using something that is reserved for only the most serious of cases. If he was that bad off he should have been hospitalized.

Overdoses and fatalities

In July 2014, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) issued a warning about the potential for life-threatening harm from accidental exposure to transdermal fentanyl patches, particularly in children,[44] and advised that they should be folded, with the adhesive side in, before being discarded. The patches should be kept away from children, who are most at risk from fentanyl overdose.[45] The musician Prince died of an overdose of fentanyl in April 2016.[4

 

[Ns1]

n/m

 

[Fanatical Meat]

My cat had fantanyl patch after his hip surgery when he was young. Stuff had some serious warnings about not touching it, disposal and exposing yourself to it.
Cat started chewing it off late that night, I was worried he'd get a fatal dose. I ran to a 24 hour pharmacy got some gloves, safety scissors and oil to get the patch off it was very difficult to do.
I'm fortunate I don't have chronic pain or know anyone with chronic pain. I do have to ask do we really need all these opium based pain killers and maybe they do more harm than good.
Shouldn't the drug companies that lobbied to introduce these drugs that they insisted were not habit forming be held accountable?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Wondering why he was using something that is reserved for only the most serious of cases. If he was that bad off he should have been hospitalized.

Because he had been using prescription opioids for years and others did less and less for him.

Here's a good opinion piece from an M.D.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/06/02/pains-secret-message-why-prince-didnt-need-to-die.html

 

[Artdeco]

I'm all for legalizing drugs, but when you need to be a certified pharmacologist with a microgram scale to properly dose yourself.....what could possibly go wrong? Even extensive education, which I generally believe is the answer, isn't going to help.

I can pretty safely say that fentanyl shouldn't be on the streets and not feel too hypocritical about it.

Yep, I've given buckets of the stuff, best thing about is a relatively short duration and if you can give respiratory support, OD isn't a big deal in a health care setting.

Both Prince & MJ could have survived with someone that knew basic life support monitoring them, and maybe an ambu bag with supplemental O2 and an oral airway.

I guess we need to make narcan nasal spray OTC since opioid abuse is so goddamn common. There are groups calling narcan "the shot of love"

 

[uclaLabrat]

Fentanyl (also known as fentanil, brand names Sublimaze,[6] Actiq, Durogesic, Duragesic, Fentora, Matrifen, Haldid, Onsolis,[7] Instanyl,[8] Abstral,[9] Lazanda[10] and others[11]) is a potent, synthetic opioid analgesic with a rapid onset and short duration of action.[12] It is a strong agonist at the μ-opioid receptors. Fentanyl is approximately 80 to 100 times more potent than morphine and roughly 40 to 50 times more potent than pharmaceutical grade (100% pure) heroin.[13][14]


Wondering why he was using something that is reserved for only the most serious of cases. If he was that bad off he should have been hospitalized.

Overdoses and fatalities

In July 2014, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) issued a warning about the potential for life-threatening harm from accidental exposure to transdermal fentanyl patches, particularly in children,[44] and advised that they should be folded, with the adhesive side in, before being discarded. The patches should be kept away from children, who are most at risk from fentanyl overdose.[45] The musician Prince died of an overdose of fentanyl in April 2016.[4

Most serious cases? My wife was given Fentanyl both times she was in labor.

 

[Eli]

Most serious cases? My wife was given Fentanyl both times she was in labor.

....

Yeah. So.... I think you should think about this just a little bit more.

 

[Eli]

How about Meth? Is that OK?

Same results only much slower.

Ban life.. same results, only much slower? :sneaky: I'd be OK with meth being legalized, even though the shit is indeed really nasty. You can't keep people from themselves....

The problem here is, "50x more powerful than pure heroin".

It's one thing for a junkie to say "Man, I need to get SUPER high...", load up a 5cc syringe, and OD because the shit was a little more powerful than the last. Or for someone to take 40 Vicodin, or 20 oxycontin, or take 40 double shots of a powerful hard liquor in an hour.

But you can basically OD on fentanyl by looking at the shit wrong. It doesn't take that excess that a reasonable person is inherently unlikely to surpass; there is a good chance that even a well meaning person would end up in trouble. That's probably what happened to Prince, and that's what makes it such a public hazard.

Prohibition can work, particularly in the case of industry-produced drugs.

How many here have listened to their parents talk about Quaaludes? Or remember them? I'm sure you can probably still get them if you really want to, but it is possible for even a popular drug to basically disappear into the anals of history.

We should by and large be able to get a handle on America's prescription opioid problem, and it won't look anything like "the war on drugs".

 

[Carson Dyle]

Much of the Fentanyl on the streets is being produced illicitly in labs, mostly in Mexico. Removing it from production as a pain killer with legitimate uses would have minimal effect on street use and overdoses caused by mixing it with heroin.

 

[Eli]

Much of the Fentanyl on the streets is being produced illicitly in labs, mostly in Mexico. Removing it from production as a pain killer with legitimate uses would have minimal effect on street use and overdoses caused by mixing it with heroin.

Oh, I don't mean removing it from production as a legitimate pain killer. Not at all. Using it in a clinical setting is fine, and I'm sure there are thousands of people who use it in a prescribed home setting successfully as well.

There are multiple issues going on here, we probably shouldn't confuse them. I guess we need more details in the case of Prince, at least. Prince was given the drug legally, but under what circumstances? Could it be argued that it would be irresponsible to give a drug as powerful as fentanyl to someone who is already very tolerant to opioids without direct doctor supervision? I don't know.

I was going on a tangent about removing it from the streets, I guess.

We should absolutely be working to shut down illicit labs. I guess that aspect of the war on drugs is the same; I meant the vilifying and incarceration of the American public part.

 

[IGBT]

Much of the Fentanyl on the streets is being produced illicitly in labs, mostly in Mexico. Removing it from production as a pain killer with legitimate uses would have minimal effect on street use and overdoses caused by mixing it with heroin.

the street drug dealers that use it to cut heroin..most have no lab experience or equipment to complete a cut that won't kill off the users. When Hoffman OD'd there were hundreds others that died as well. I'm not going to shed any tears over dopers but if you have family members that are using street dope..from one score to the next they have no idea what they are getting. Hoffman was an experienced druggy and ended up dead with the needle still in his arm. The overdose happened that quick.

 

[IGBT]

Most serious cases? My wife was given Fentanyl both times she was in labor.

..ask your wife if birth labor is serious.

 

[MongGrel]

Ban life.. same results, only much slower? :sneaky: I'd be OK with meth being legalized, even though the shit is indeed really nasty. You can't keep people from themselves....

The problem here is, "50x more powerful than pure heroin".

It's one thing for a junkie to say "Man, I need to get SUPER high...", load up a 5cc syringe, and OD because the shit was a little more powerful than the last. Or for someone to take 40 Vicodin, or 20 oxycontin, or take 40 double shots of a powerful hard liquor in an hour.

But you can basically OD on fentanyl by looking at the shit wrong. It doesn't take that excess that a reasonable person is inherently unlikely to surpass; there is a good chance that even a well meaning person would end up in trouble. That's probably what happened to Prince, and that's what makes it such a public hazard.

Prohibition can work, particularly in the case of industry-produced drugs.

How many here have listened to their parents talk about Quaaludes? Or remember them? I'm sure you can probably still get them if you really want to, but it is possible for even a popular drug to basically disappear into the anals of history.

We should by and large be able to get a handle on America's prescription opioid problem, and it won't look anything like "the war on drugs".

You obviously know a lot more about it than I do, and good points.

I remember Rorer 714's from the past.

They were a big thing in the 70's

I have pretty severe back pain and still have some Hydrocodone I was prescribed awhile back I should flush down the toilet, I avoid taking things like that these days unless I'm really hurting.

 

[uclaLabrat]

..ask your wife if birth labor is serious.

According to her, mouth pain is much worse.

My point being, opioids aren't all that bad from a pharmacological perspective, like you can take fentanyl and vicodin while pregnant, but you can't take other things like ibuprofen when you're pregnant.

Sure, the addiction aspect is bad, but they're not ridiculously terrible drugs otherwise.

 

[pcgeek11]

The whole point is:

No matter how much you try you cannot protect people from themselves.

 

[dr150]

This thread is too long.

What is known: Prince had huge hip pain problems from all those years of jumping around. He addressed it with surgery and pain drugs.

He overshot a drug for his extreme pain....gambled & lost.

This could have happened to any of us if we were in his shoes trying to address this pain.

End of story.

 

[zanejohnson]

i spent a week in ICU because of a fentanyl overdose years ago, it's not a toy.


an opioid overdose can happen very quickly, and it's not one of those things contrary to popular belief that you can feel yourself about to happen.. you're not conscious. i keep reading all these people talking about how you feel your breathing get depressed and then can't breathe.. it's nothing like that. what happens is that you imbibe the drug, and then the next thing you know you're brought back with an opoiod antagonist injection, narcan and you wake up with paramedics all around you.

or if nobody is monitoring you, you dont wake back up. usually somewhere soon after the loss of consciousness you puke while passed out and drown in it.

 

[zanejohnson]

even after all the heartache and troubles opiate drugs have caused in my life, i still think they should be widely available to anyone who needs them. pain sucks, and that WILL really ruin you're life.

we should look at other countries policies, most SE asian countries have hydrocodone/oxycodone formulations available without a prescription, over the counter. they dont have near the problem with drug abuse/drug crime that we do here.

most Euro countries have codeine and hydrocodone available OTC, usually combined with tylenol to deter abuse.

tylenol will shut your liver down if taken in excess, opiates are actually non toxic, the only problem is that after taken for a long amount of time you're body becomes physically dependent...

pretty much all the negative aspects of opiate addiction could be prevented with widespread availability, it's the lifestyle that destroys, the lifestyle of chasing an illegal substance.