Prisoner Abuse Photos

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Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Sorry Ozoned, I should've been more clear and said "actions/attitudes of some in our military".

Without going back and reading the entire AG thread, do you have an opinion on the torture of prisoners?

I have a problem with your 'and proclaim it in public' statement. You seem to have adopted the typical "if it's bad news, we don't want to hear about it" stance of this administration.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet concerning me these last couple of days. Does it have anything to do with my comment on your refusal to thank Klixxer?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard
Sorry Ozoned, I should've been more clear and said "actions/attitudes of some in our military".

Yes, you should have, but you weren't
Without going back and reading the entire AG thread, do you have an opinion on the torture of prisoners?
Yes I do, but I will keep them at arms length because I firmly believe that at the present time to further publicize this topic only serves the goal of the Iraqi insurgency.
I have a problem with your 'and proclaim it in public' statement. You seem to have adopted the typical "if it's bad news, we don't want to hear about it" stance of this administration.
The problem is all yours. May i suggest thinking before you post
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet concerning me these last couple of days. Does it have anything to do with my comment on your refusal to thank Klixxer?
Sorry Gaard, but not going to play this part of your game....

 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Gaard

Without going back and reading the entire AG thread, do you have an opinion on the torture of prisoners?
Yes I do, but I will keep them at arms length because I firmly believe that at the present time to further publicize this topic only serves the goal of the Iraqi insurgency.
If we do anything bad over there, for Pete's sake, don't say anything about!



I have a problem with your 'and proclaim it in public' statement. You seem to have adopted the typical "if it's bad news, we don't want to hear about it" stance of this administration.
The problem is all yours. May i suggest thinking before you post.[/quote]
No you may not.



You seem to have a bee in your bonnet concerning me these last couple of days. Does it have anything to do with my comment on your refusal to thank Klixxer?[/quote] Sorry Gaard, but not going to play this part of your game....[/quote]
LOL. You've been trying to get me to respond to you for a couple of days now, and when I finally do, I"M the one playing games. LOL May I suggest thinking before you post? And please, go thank Klixxer. It's not that hard, really.

Edit: I suck at quoting.



 

CocoMunkee

Member
Aug 10, 2004
177
0
0
Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored
Q]

LOL. You're an idiot and sarcasm is obviously too challenging for you to comprehend. Thanks for the link.

Opps. I didn't realize your were being sarcastic. Ha Ha. Sorry to rattle the liberal hornest nest.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard


Edit: I suck at quoting.
Yes you do.

Anywho----

Sheesh, Gaard. You took a cheap shot at our military with your pathetic little actions/attitude statement and I corrected your immature thinking, (which by the way, you did agree I was right). Not you got your panties in a bunch over crap that has nothing to do with this op topic. Why don't you just take your licks and let it go?

edit: BTW-- You missed on both points that you tried to make in your last post.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
"panties in a bunch"

Is it wise to let CAD influence you like this?

Go thank Klixxer.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Is there a certain reason you refuse to thank Klixxer for fighting in the WoT? Surely, you aren't so petty as to let simple political disagreements prevent you from thanking someone for his participation in this war, are you? But then I ask myself, what other reason can there be?
 

Hecubus2000

Senior member
Dec 1, 2000
674
0
0
:thumbsup: Go Frogmen. Four less dirtbags off the street. This is torture? Please. Contain your bleeding hearts, they're dripping all over the place. Thumbs Up to these guys for doing a great job keeping the REAL murderers from doing their number on the innocents of Iraq.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard
Is there a certain reason you refuse to thank Klixxer for fighting in the WoT? Surely, you aren't so petty as to let simple political disagreements prevent you from thanking someone for his participation in this war, are you? But then I ask myself, what other reason can there be?


Prisoner Abuse Photos
Topic Summary: WARNING - SEMI-GRAPHIC




Try to keep up, Gaard....
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:thumbsup: Go Frogmen. Four less dirtbags off the street. This is torture? Please. Contain your bleeding hearts, they're dripping all over the place. Thumbs Up to these guys for doing a great job keeping the REAL murderers from doing their number on the innocents of Iraq.

What about being politicaly correct ? Shouldn't we be taking into account the feelings of our more liberal posters when we offer our opinions about such things???

 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Gaard
Is there a certain reason you refuse to thank Klixxer for fighting in the WoT? Surely, you aren't so petty as to let simple political disagreements prevent you from thanking someone for his participation in this war, are you? But then I ask myself, what other reason can there be?


Prisoner Abuse Photos
Topic Summary: WARNING - SEMI-GRAPHIC




Try to keep up, Gaard....

If you would be so kind, would you answer the question please. Humor me just this once.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard


If you would be so kind, would you answer the question please. Humor me just this once.

I tried that once, Gaard, but you sh!t all over that. :|

I tell you what I will do though, Gaard. The next time you stick your foot in your mouth and make petty little statements about the actions/attitudes of our Military, I will pm you first and give you an opportunity to correct your post. That way you can avoid all of this embarrassment that this mistake has obviously caused for you.

ps: I think that I tried that once, also to no avail, but we will see what happens.

What do you think about that Gaard?

:thumbsup: or :thumbsdown:
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Gaard


If you would be so kind, would you answer the question please. Humor me just this once.

I tried that once, Gaard, but you sh!t all over that. :|

I tell you what I will do though, Gaard. The next time you stick your foot in your mouth and make petty little statements about the actions/attitudes of our Military, I will pm you first and give you an opportunity to correct your post. That way you can avoid all of this embarrassment that this mistake has obviously caused for you.

ps: I think that I tried that once, also to no avail, but we will see what happens.

What do you think about that Gaard?

:thumbsup: or :thumbsdown:
Another non-answer. Here, I'll do it for you..."I adamantly refuse to thank Klixxer for his service in the WoT because he has disagreed with me before on political debates."
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored
Wait a sec.. they had hand-cuffs AND guns pointed at the detainee's? OMG what is this world coming to? Down with America!



:roll:

hey lamer, dont bring down a country of 300 million due to the actions of a few dozen
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Gaard


If you would be so kind, would you answer the question please. Humor me just this once.

I tried that once, Gaard, but you sh!t all over that. :|

I tell you what I will do though, Gaard. The next time you stick your foot in your mouth and make petty little statements about the actions/attitudes of our Military, I will pm you first and give you an opportunity to correct your post. That way you can avoid all of this embarrassment that this mistake has obviously caused for you.

ps: I think that I tried that once, also to no avail, but we will see what happens.

What do you think about that Gaard?

:thumbsup: or :thumbsdown:
Another non-answer. Here, I'll do it for you..."I adamantly refuse to thank Klixxer for his service in the WoT because he has disagreed with me before on political debates."
Good one, Gaard, but you haven't done your research. Since you stuck your foot in your mouth again, well you got a pm.

 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,998
0
0
Originally posted by: Hecubus2000
:thumbsup: Go Frogmen. Four less dirtbags off the street. This is torture? Please. Contain your bleeding hearts, they're dripping all over the place. Thumbs Up to these guys for doing a great job keeping the REAL murderers from doing their number on the innocents of Iraq.

nobody said torture
 

Insidious

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2001
7,649
0
0
Seems to be a lot of assumptions about what occured up to the point these pictures were taken.... I wonder.

to be honest, I can't say I am sorry to see the faces of the people hoping to 'behead the infidels'...... BLEED


My apologies to all of you that believe we should be nice to them. I most certainly DON'T

-Sid
 

ToeStub

Banned
Aug 20, 2004
392
0
0
In regards to the OP, the photos depict absolutely no prisoner abuse. They are pics of bound, hooded and bleeding members of the opposition, nothing more and nothing less.

What is the fuss?

As for the goofy looking guy, who knows, maybe he's just goofy. Why don't we wait until he can be questioned, which he certainly will be.

BTW, I thanked Klixxer. I have the utmost respect for all servicemen, both friendly and enemy. All have either volunteered for a cause they believe in or been conscripted to fight through coersion.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Is This American?
By Molly Ivins, AlterNet
Posted on December 2, 2004, Printed on December 5, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/20654/

It is both peculiar and chilling to find oneself discussing the problem of American torture. I have considered support of basic human rights and dignity so much a part of our national identity that this feels as strange as though I'd suddenly become Chinese or found Fidel Castro in the refrigerator.

One's first response to the report by the International Red Cross about torture at our prison at Guantanamo is denial. "I don't want to think about it; I don't want to hear about it; we're the good guys, they're the bad guys; shut up. And besides, they attacked us first."

But our country has opposed torture since its founding. One of our founding principles is that cruel and unusual punishment is both illegal and wrong. Every year, our State Department issues a report grading other countries on their support for or violations of human rights.

The first requirement here is that we look at what we are doing ? and not blink, not use euphemisms. Despite the Red Cross' polite language, this is not "tantamount to torture." It's torture. It is not "detainee abuse." It's torture. If they were doing it to you, you would know it was torture. It must be hidden away, because it's happening in Cuba or elsewhere abroad.

Yes, it's true, we did sort of know this already. It was clear when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke in Iraq that the infection had come from Guantanamo. The infamous memos by Alberto Gonzales, our next attorney general, and by John Ashcroft's "Justice" Department pretty well laid it out.

In a way, Abu Ghraib, as bizarrely sadistic as it was, is easier to understand than this cold, relentless and apparently endless procedure at Gitmo. At least Abu Ghraib took place in the context of war. At Guantanamo, there is no threat to anyone ? Americans are not being killed or hurt there.

The Red Cross report says, "The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment, and a form of torture."

Our country, the one you and I are responsible for, has imprisoned these "illegal combatants" for three years now. What the hell else do we expect to get out of them? We don't even release their names or say what they're charged with ? whether they're Taliban, al Qaeda or just some farmers who happened to get in the way (in Afghanistan, farmers and soldiers are apt to be the same).

If this hasn't been established in three years, when will it be? How long are they to be subjected to "humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions"?

In the name of Jesus Christ Almighty, why are people representing our government, paid by us, writing filth on the Korans of helpless prisoners? Is this American? Is it Christian? What are our moral values? Where are the clergymen on this? Speak out, speak up.

The creepiest aspect of the Red Cross report is the involvement of doctors and psychiatrists in something called "biscuit" teams. Get used to that acronym: It stands for Behavioral Science Consultation Team and will end up in the same category of national shame as Wounded Knee. According to The New York Times, "biscuit" teams are "composed of psychologists and psychological workers who advise the interrogators." Shades of Dr. Mengele.

An earlier Red Cross report questioned whether "psychological torture" was taking place. I guess that's what you call sleep deprivation and prolonged exposure to extremely loud noises while shackled to a chair. The beatings reported would not be psychological torture. I pass over the apparently abandoned practice of sexual taunting. The Red Cross also reports a far greater incidence of mental illness caused by stress.

If you have neither the imagination nor the empathy to envision yourself in such circumstances, please consider why the senior commanders in the military are so horrified by this. It's very simple. Because, if we do this, if we break international law and the conventions of warfare, then the same thing can be done to American soldiers who are captured abroad. Any country can use exactly the same lame rationale about "enemy combatants" to torture American troops in any kind of conflict. Then we would protest to the Red Cross, of course.

I suppose one could argue that we're fighting people who chop off the heads of their prisoners, so there. Since when have we taken up Abu al-Zarqawi as a role model? In the famous hypothetical example, you might consider torture justified if you had a terrorist who knew where a bomb was planted that was about to go off. But three years later? Some people have got to be held accountable for this, and that would include Congress.

My question is: What are you going to do about this? It's your country, your money, your government. You own it, you run it, you are the board of directors. They are doing this in your name. The people we elect to public office do what you want them to. Perhaps you should get in touch with them.

link
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
I'm curious how many of you have actually read the Geneva Conventions? It stands to reason that many of you are content to immediately jump to a conclusion and assume something from a frozen moment in time provided by a photograph. I could very like produce thousands of photos and make dozens of guesses for each one as to what happened immediately before and after the photo in question and come to my own nefarious and ill-advised conclusion as many of you have. How simplisitic and naiive one must be to put all their faith into a photograph and make a judgement upon an entire incident or group of people so soundly and so quickly. On second thought, doing such a thing absolutely smells of prejudice, a word I'll leave to you to look up the definition for.

As recommended reading for tonight's lesson, I recommend reading US Army Field Manual 27-10 (FM 27-10) so that you can at least be mildly educated on such weighty topics as this rather than just espousing some bull$hit rhetoric that you overheard your parents discussing one night at the dinner table.
 
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