Pro-choice actually pro-abortion?

[LordMagnusKain]

I?ve been told countless times that it?s intellectually dishonest, unchristian, and an out-right lie to say that pro-choice is pro-abortion.

Let?s look at some "pro-choice" rhetoric:

many women still cannot afford an abortion. The Hyde Amendment denies federal Medicaid funding for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or life endangerment Too many women who need abortions must wait while they raise funds? For women who struggle to make ends meet or do not have insurance that covers abortion, the legal right to have an abortion does not guarantee that they will have access.

I have a legal right to have liposuction, but I can?t afford it. But I don?t think I?d be out of line in saying that someone who wants the government to pay for my liposuction is definitely pro-liposuction.

Why is it unfair to call people who want federal funding of abortions pro abortion?

Parental Consent or Notification Laws which are now enforced in half of the 50 states can violate the privacy of young women by forcing them to involve their parents in their decisions

At the age of 14 I had no legal right to have liposuction without parental permission. In the case of abortion under-age abortion is often easily used to cover up statutory rape and in the case of incest a judge can intervene. I don?t think I?d be out of line in saying that someone that supported me being able to get liposuction at the age of 14 without parental consent was pro-liposuction.

Why is it unfair to call people who want children to get abortions without parental consent pro-abortion?

In a section called ?Abortion Facts ? the NAF says, in support of having abortion as a teen:

Children born to teenage mothers are more likely than children of older mothers to suffer significant disadvantages: medical, psychological, economic, and educational.

According to this draconic line of reasoning it?s a perfectly reasonable thing to do to eliminate the future existence of a human simply because of simple ?disadvantages?;
Following this line of thinking isn?t just dangerous, it?s an insult to anyone who has a child that is at all handicapped, disabled or any parent that isn?t rich enough for the best school and medicine. They totally ignore the slew of good couples who want a child and could have there desire to raise a child met by way of adoption.

 

[zendari]

I support abortion rights, but I also think pro-choice is a leftist terminology. If you support allowing people to have an abortion you are pro-abortion. Simple as that.

 

[Willoughbyva]

I also support a womans right to choose. Having said that I am glad I am not a woman when it comes to this issue. As a male I myself am simply doing what I think is right in my situation. Which means no children. I don't put myself in the position of getting someone pregnant. Or at least with someone who couldn't provide for the child. I have had a lot of problems in life and I don't want to inflict them on a child. I think that in some cases abortion is ok, but i don't think that it should be used as a constant form of getting out of having a child.

 

[Tab]

I fully support for women to the have the opition of an abortion before the 3rd trimester. If the women bearing the child has complications due to the pregancy after the 3rd trimester, she should have the opition of abortion.

Pro-Choice says exactly what it means, the support of choices. If you fail to understand this, you've got serious issuses.

 

[shoegazer]

sorta like being pro-defense and pro-war. you can be in support of a military just in case you get attacked...or you can be in support of constant war.

it is pro-choice.

edit: i don't mean to draw a parallel between war and abortions...war was just the first "if all else fails" thing i thought of.

 

[Riprorin]

I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

 

[Malfeas]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

You do realize you just contradicted yourself in two sentences??!!!!!

 

[shoegazer]

and i do. so, yeah i guess that's that.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

 

[shoegazer]

it isn't a baby. it's a fetus.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: zendari
I support abortion rights, but I also think pro-choice is a leftist terminology. If you support allowing people to have an abortion you are pro-abortion. Simple as that.

We can extend this idiotic logic...

If you support allowing people to smoke cigarettes, you are pro-tobacco.

If you support allowing two men to have anal sex, you are pro-gay anal sex.

If you support allowing people to have divorces, you are pro-divorce.

If you support allowing people to have S&M sex, you are pro-S&M

Pretty simple huh? I can continue your "logic" if you want....

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

When it invalidates the life of a mother, yes.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: zendari
I support abortion rights, but I also think pro-choice is a leftist terminology. If you support allowing people to have an abortion you are pro-abortion. Simple as that.

We can extend this idiotic logic...

If you support allowing people to smoke cigarettes, you are pro-tobacco.

If you support allowing two men to have anal sex, you are pro-gay anal sex.

If you support allowing people to have divorces, you are pro-divorce.

If you support allowing people to have S&M sex, you are pro-S&M

Pretty simple huh? I can continue your "logic" if you want....

Fine by me. People get too hung up about the useless terminology anyway.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

When it invalidates the life of a mother, yes.

Can you cite medical circumstances in which having a partial birth abortion is the only way to preserve the mother's health?

 

[CheesePoofs]

We did a poll in my class, and there were a fair amount of women who said they would not to have an abortion if they became pregnant accidentally, but they supported others having the choice to have an abortion.

For me personally, I'm a man, so I don't feel I have the right to tell a women if she can have an abortion. So I am pro-choice.

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

The fetus is not close to being a baby by the time they have the abortion, normally. It probably has the brain power of an ant, if that. And we happily squish ants every day.

It seems to me like you should become a jainist.

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

The fetus is not close to being a baby by the time they have the abortion, normally. It probably has the brain power of an ant, if that. And we happily squish ants every day.

It seems to me like you should become a jainist.

Afraid not.

Galleries of Images of Aborted Children

But then there's the question of whether or not that fetus even has the brain power to feel anything.

 

[sandorski]

"Pro-Abortion" is intelectually dishonest. The mental gymnastics required to try and prove it's not is the proof that it is.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: zendari
I support abortion rights, but I also think pro-choice is a leftist terminology. If you support allowing people to have an abortion you are pro-abortion. Simple as that.

We can extend this idiotic logic...

If you support allowing people to smoke cigarettes, you are pro-tobacco.

If you support allowing two men to have anal sex, you are pro-gay anal sex.

If you support allowing people to have divorces, you are pro-divorce.

If you support allowing people to have S&M sex, you are pro-S&M

Pretty simple huh? I can continue your "logic" if you want....

Fine by me. People get too hung up about the useless terminology anyway.

It's not just useless terminology though, there is a fundamental difference in meaning. Taking the first example, I dislike smoking and think it is a bad and dangerous habit. I support programs designed to help people quit, and I believe that cigarette companies should be legally accountable to be honest about their products. However, I still believe that it is a choice individuals have to make for themselves. Does that make me "pro-smoking"?

Actually, here is a better example. I disagree with the KKK and any other racist groups. Their message is one of hate and intolerance, and the world would be better off without that message. But I still support their right to free speech, because keeping speech free is more important to me than limiting it to punish racist groups. In this case, I'm pro-free speech, not pro-KKK.

The distinction is in what you actually support. It's not that I'm in favor of abortions as a birth control solution (I'm actually quite against it, I believe there are far better solutions). But I also don't think I have the right to enforce that view on other people, so I'm pro-choice, not "pro-abortion". Maybe they are just words, but I think of them as a representation of the idea that not everything is some black and white issue where you either support one viewpoint or the other.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

The fetus is not close to being a baby by the time they have the abortion, normally. It probably has the brain power of an ant, if that. And we happily squish ants every day.

It seems to me like you should become a jainist.

Afraid not.

Galleries of Images of Aborted Children

But then there's the question of whether or not that fetus even has the brain power to feel anything.

Abortion and the Unborn Baby: The Painful Truth

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Abortion and the Unborn Baby: The Painful Truth

Ok, got me there. However, that is just one site from one source, and clearly anti-abortion source at that. I guarantee there is plenty of evidence pointing the other way.

Its not that I am pro abortion. However, the real thing is that I do not believe I have the right to tell someone else they can't do somethng to their own body because I don't believe it is right. Do you really believe that because you don't believe in abortions that nobody should be able to have them?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Why do anti-abortion folks always jump straight to PBA (soeaking of words, the medical term is 'intact dilation and extraction', but anti-abortion people always use the term 'partial birth abortion' as an appeal to emotion).

There are many of us who are pro-choice, but uncomfortable with late-term abortions for non-medical reasons. When the anti-abortion argument immediately jumps to late-term issues, it isn't a very interesting discussion for people like me - I would support the idea of banning abortions beyond the first trimester, except in the case of medical necessity (toxemia, etc).

But statements about PBA are not arguments against abortions in general, and never will be.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

so was having sex with young boys at one time. Worry not rip, people receive in themselves justice for there sins.

it's the negative personal consequences that occur from abortions that we should help publicize in order to help reduce abortions. Make sure the selfish-reasons for not killing your unborn are well understood.

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm all for choice if the choice is between keeping the child or putting it up for adoption.

I don't consider taking the life of an unborn a legitimate choice.

Well, too bad. I guess it sucks to hold fanatical beilefs and the rest of the civilized world to disagree with you.

Sticking a sharp object into the back of a baby's skull and sucking out its brains is civilized?

so was having sex with young boys at one time. Worry not rip, people receive in themselves justice for there sins.

it's the negative personal consequences that occur from abortions that we should help publicize in order to help reduce abortions. Make sure the selfish-reasons for not killing your unborn are well understood.

So I'm sinning for believing that I don't have the right to tell someone whether or not they can have an abortion?