Pro-Israel pressure strong in US

[Lemon law]

Has Israel bought a no restrain needed vandalism license from the UN?---well either has Hezbollah either---but expect Hezbollah to get shelter and aid from all of your neighbors now.

All Israel has done is made Hezbollah more popular. Collective punishment no longer works----how long will it take Israel to learn that?

But I do agree its in the interests of the USA to make Hezbollah vanish---when that is not posssible---anyone making Hezbollah stronger is going to run up against US displeasure.
What the hell do you think Condi was telling Israel before she was told to butt out.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: firewall

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
So firewall, you are against Hizbollah no longer posing a threat? After all, you wouldn't want to be one of those sheep wanting peace now, would you?

Hizbollah poses a threat but not as severe as Israel touts it to be. A unilateral ceasefire isn't beneficial nor fair where Israel shall keep bombing the Lebanese people. If I am hypothetically in the middle of a fight with someone (started by the other person for any reason), if the cops stop me but allow the other person to keep attacking me, I won't be too pleased and would resist the cops and try to counter-attack the other person. Only if the cops stop both of us, will I fully cooperate.

It is time we realize it and take action against these lobbies. Unless we do that, we will remain mere sheep.

You said it yourself.

Indeed I did.

A well spun web. You start off minimizing Hizbollah waging war, as if it's somehow acceptable to allow. Then you cite Israel would not stop.

The continuous problem has been the terrorist groups. If they don't stop waging war, what are you going to do to them except fight back? Israel is fighting back and it should continue to do so until Hizbollah surrenders or dies.

We cannot allow more people to die in the long run because you want Hizbollah protected in the short run. It?s the exact same thing as ?Peace for our time?. While your aim is to immediately stop the war, you must first understand that allowing the aggressor protection cost millions of lives in WW2, and would do so again today.

 

[Lemon law]

You still don't have clue do you Jaskalas,

Look at it from someone else point of view for a damn change----now cast Israel in the role of Goliath---who stole other people's land and oppresses its neighbors---and if any dare oppose Goliath, he kills that person and everyone in the vacinity--calling it justice.---but as we know---might makes right.

Then along comes Hezbollah in the role of David----and David has a slingshot---but instead of killing Goliath---he just makes Goliath mighty uncomfortable.---first time in 58 years that has happened.

Which is the closest the Arabs have come to forcing the Israelies to honestly confront their sins also at the peace table. It ain't rocket science to guess lots of more people will get slingshots also.---but as Goliath chases David---dodging a plague of gnats all the way---David will just run into Iran---or Syria---just daring Goliath to start administering collective punishment there also.

Hey I am on a roll here---I am making Hezbollah sound like a modern day Moses---whats next---a plague of frogs?---but instead of let my people go---they will settle for some equal rights---instead of this Israelie might makes right crap they have been getting away with for so long.----and its the party who wants peace that is willing to make the tough concessions
to make a just peace possible------its progress because the other side finally has a tactic that can make Israel want peace.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Lets be realistic, the current war at Lebanon got this existantial dimension just because of the sensation-seeking media coverage. Hizbullah has absolutely no strategic implication on Israel, and can only cause discomfort - more to Lebanon than to Israel.
The strategic problem will arise if Hizbullah isn't defeated and serves as a role model for other hooligans.

Your assumption that all the Arabs want is to sit near the negotiation table is "somewhat" naive, looking at past wars will suffice for proving this.

 

[imported_peachee]

It is now known that Israel's attack on Lebanon is based on Israel wanting Lebanon's water supply.

 

[buggati]

Refer to this post: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1909701&enterthread=y It has a great analysis of Right wing media

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Wouldn't it be cheaper to move Israel to the United States, to say the Nevada desert? We could move say the top one foot of land too so it would still be the same Holy Land.

That's a great idea. They're already used to the climate. We have plenty of land. And it would make trading with them so much easier.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: peachee
It is now known that Israel's attack on Lebanon is based on Israel wanting Lebanon's water supply.

Are you sure you're not confusing water with oil?



... LOL

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Tom


Can you read ? I already said that if you had said Israel has a lot of influence, that would be a fact.

But that is different than saying they have too much influence, which is an opinion.

And you brought up "under-representation" of Arab viewpoints.. what specific Arab viewpoint is it you think is underrepresented, if it isn't the viewpoint of Hezzbollah or their ilk ?

Hmm, so in your mind- the Arab position and the Hezbollah position are all one in the same? Arabs are basically all just "terrorists"?

No, but it could be successfully argued that the Hezbollah position and Iranian position are one and the same.

And no, Arabs are NOT basically all terrorists. There are ideally plenty of moderate Muslims who find a way to reconcile civil law with religious law. Unfortunately, either they are too fearful (for their lives) to state the obvious, or for whatever reason, are simply unwilling to do so. But I suspect that Islamic fundamentalists who believe that sharia should be the ultimate law governing man, are more likely to be terrorists. And although it is a cancerous interpretation of Islam that drives them to attack the West, I think their goals are essentially fascist in nature.

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
At least the American people are smartening up, and starting to question our unfailing support of Israel.

Our national policies shouldn't be controlled by a special interest lobby.

You really enjoy relying on that ancient canard: a Jewish cabal controls a nation's foreign policy? Because sadly, that is what your comment amounts to.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: firewall

Originally posted by: Tom
I believe if you check into it you'll find that the two largest recipients of US aid are Israel, and Egypt.

As I have said before, considering that Egypt gets aid for recognizing Israel, this aid is actually indirect aid to Israel. Hence, the ultimate beneficiary is Israel in either case.

I guess if you think peace only benefits Israel, you could look at it that way..


I think the basic issue when discussing the Middle East is, there seem to be some people who think the destruction of Israel is negotiable, which means there's nothing for Americans to talk about.

And that isn't because of some pro-Israel lobby.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: MrPabulum

Originally posted by: jpeyton
At least the American people are smartening up, and starting to question our unfailing support of Israel.

Our national policies shouldn't be controlled by a special interest lobby.

You really enjoy relying on that ancient canard: a Jewish cabal controls a nation's foreign policy? Because sadly, that is what your comment amounts to.

You are blind if you don't see the Jewish influence in American politics. Politicians may not like Jewish people, and some politicians may even be anit-semitic, but when it comes to Jewish money, all politicians love it.

There are many things I admire about Jewish people. Even though they are only 2% of American population, they have one of the highest education level and income level among all ethnics in the US. They hold important positions in government, media and other top American companies. They have strong beliefs, they are unified in sharing those beliefs, and they are not timid in getting those beliefs out there and make them happen.

That's all good qualities. But the question is, should the other 98% of American just stand there and see the Jewish people, using their money and influence, pusing things that benefits 2% of the people?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: MrPabulum

Originally posted by: jpeyton
At least the American people are smartening up, and starting to question our unfailing support of Israel.

Our national policies shouldn't be controlled by a special interest lobby.

You really enjoy relying on that ancient canard: a Jewish cabal controls a nation's foreign policy? Because sadly, that is what your comment amounts to.

You are blind if you don't see the Jewish influence in American politics. Politicians may not like Jewish people, and some politicians may even be anit-semitic, but when it comes to Jewish money, all politicians love it.

There are many things I admire about Jewish people. Even though they are only 2% of American population, they have one of the highest education level and income level among all ethnics in the US. They hold important positions in government, media and other top American companies. They have strong beliefs, they are unified in sharing those beliefs, and they are not timid in getting those beliefs out there and make them happen.

That's all good qualities. But the question is, should the other 98% of American just stand there and see the Jewish people, using their money and influence, pusing things that benefits 2% of the people?

People, whether they are Jewish, Arab, or Irish, are free to spend their money to express their political viewpoint. It's called the 1st Amendment.

That is the way we Americans like it. Nobody has to "just stand there" either, everyone can participate.

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: MrPabulum

Originally posted by: jpeyton
At least the American people are smartening up, and starting to question our unfailing support of Israel.

Our national policies shouldn't be controlled by a special interest lobby.

You really enjoy relying on that ancient canard: a Jewish cabal controls a nation's foreign policy? Because sadly, that is what your comment amounts to.

You are blind if you don't see the Jewish influence in American politics. Politicians may not like Jewish people, and some politicians may even be anit-semitic, but when it comes to Jewish money, all politicians love it.

There are many things I admire about Jewish people. Even though they are only 2% of American population, they have one of the highest education level and income level among all ethnics in the US. They hold important positions in government, media and other top American companies. They have strong beliefs, they are unified in sharing those beliefs, and they are not timid in getting those beliefs out there and make them happen.

That's all good qualities. But the question is, should the other 98% of American just stand there and see the Jewish people, using their money and influence, pusing things that benefits 2% of the people?

People, whether they are Jewish, Arab, or Irish, are free to spend their money to express their political viewpoint. It's called the 1st Amendment.

That is the way we Americans like it. Nobody has to "just stand there" either, everyone can participate.

Unfortunately some people haven't figured this out yet and resort to incessant whining about "the Jews." Or worse, they become suicide bombers.

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Todd33
I think most of you are getting far OT. The point of the article is simple. If a conflict breaks out like the current one, it would be nice if the US and other respected (lol) countries were unbiased mediators. We are about as unbiased as Iran is. We will never give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who is fighting Israel, no matter what circumstances. We are a pro-Israel country. We cannot be expected to offer any UN resolution that does not read like Israel wrote it. It will fall to other countries who do not have lobbyist pressure, arms sales, etc. that bias there view of one side or another.

Why should the US be unbiased? There are two sides to this conflict, only one resembles what the US, or any other Western country, represents.
Why shouldn't the US be biased in their favor? You can't look at the Arabs, ALL controlled by dictatoric regimes, and Israel as equals.

Just like the US wouldn't look at China and the UK as equals. What's your point?

You prove my point. Why should the Arab world not be anti-American? We do not support them equally or with respect. So if any conflict or contention comes up, we just automatically side with Israel and treat the Arab country like dirt? You wonder why they burn our flags and distrust us? We tout the Lebanese democracy as a example in the region and then when push comes to shove with disregard them and treat them like second class.

They'll love you even more when you're all Muslims. So what? Is your goal pleasing primitive, cruel countries that are stuck somewhere in medieval times, some of whom actively support terror against the US?

You are just like the people you are against. Close minded, dehumanize the "other" side, extremist viwpoints, etc. These same people lived in harmony with the Jews in the middle ages, it was the Christians who marched through the ME slaughtering Arabs and Jews alike. The problem isn't genetic, it's just learned from generation to generation, just like your views. It will never get better with fighting, only worse.

The current sect of fundamentalist Muslims rampaging against the West are not the heirs to the Arabs of 500-600 years ago, who surpassed Europe in mathematics, medicine and science. But you exaggerate the extent to which the Islamic nations of the past lived in harmony with Jewish and Christian populations. Other religions were tolerated for practical (read: economic) purposes, and Andalus was the best example of this. Even then, Muslim rules did not hesitate to slaughter communities within their realm. With Europe's (and consequently the U.S.'s) ascendancy from the 16th c. onward, these Muslim nations either descended from the top of the global pyramid, or simply dissolved. Since then, the Arab world has been unable to compete with the majority of European nations, and as Bernard Lewis has repeatedly argued, this has resulted in a massive inferiority complex.

No one denies the horrible massacres committed against Muslims and Jews during the Crusades. Likewise, no one is interested in reinvigorating a 6th c. (pre-Reformation) Christianity. But therein lies the difference. Judaism and Christianity have both undergone measurable and necessary changes to adjust to the realities of the post-Enlightenment world. The Muslim world has unfortunately not. Whatever measures Western nations make to guard against Islamic fundamentalism, the Muslim world will have to adjust to a world where civil law supersedes religious law. Otherwise this conflict will not end.