Probably nothing can be done...but I will ask anyway...

[leeland]

I am my grandmother's P.O.A. (power of attorney) since she had a stroke. As a result i have taken over all her finances which are in a few choice words "a dumpster fire".

Since she had a stroke she hasn't been much help figuring out things as to why they are the way they are.

Recently I got a notice from the county she lives in that she is getting sued by Discover credit card for an unpaid balance.

As she was usually good about paying bills I was shocked...

upon investigation, and a lengthy fact finding mission...I realized she was the unfortunate recipient of a phone scam.

The time line still doesn't really make a ton of sense unless this individual was intending to really nail her on her personal account as well as her credit card account.

Cliffs
She had a person call her, gain her trust...

Dates simply to portray how fast this can happen.

June 22nd - convinced her to cash a bogus check mailed to her (6,995), and in the same day take a cash withdraw of 6,000 (how the bank didn't stop her is still in question).

Then she apparently mailed the money Fex Ex to 'someone'.

June 24-25th - Then the check bounced 2 days later, her account is now negative 5,100 dollars

June 24th - she took a 4,000 cash advance from a C.C.

June 26th - Then a day after that she deposited 3,900 dollars back into her account

This happened last June (I just found out about it via fact finding from the bank). Apparently there was some sort of investigation done by the police but nothing was able to be done.



I am guessing nothing can be done about the lost money...

If anyone has ever dealt with a scam situation, is there anything that you could recommend doing? My grandmother screwed her self by apparently taking cash advances on her C.C. and then for whatever reason never paying on the bill, which then defaulted and went to collections.

now my big hurdle is going to be trying to figure out what to do about this law suit in small claims court for a shade under 9 grand...

Since she took the money out on her own (Cash advance at her own bank) the C.C. company will still want their money back!



Word to the wise, when someone asks you to be a medical and / or financial power of attorney for someone...

Think long and hard about doing it, I did it simply because there was no one left in my family that would do it and my grandmother had a stroke (serious one).

Not all situations are like mine...I seriously could write a book on the shit I have uncovered...how people prey on the elderly is just sickening...

I would say divert some of these drone strikes over in the middle east and find some of these dirt bags that do these terrible things to senior citizens.

 

[deustroop]

Amen bro
Call the local TV channel for a feature on the issue.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Try for a kickstarter, maybe it'll go viral and she/you will be set for x years in the future.

 

[leeland]

I am not sure if you are serious / joking about that kickstarter comment...doing something like that for me wouldn't feel right trying to fix her problems from money from other people.

The debt isn't a back breaker...it is certainly a drain for her if she indeed has to pay it out of her SS and small pension but we will see...

I feel like there isn't much that can be done in regards to saying 'whoops' basically on her behalf since she did this on her own, before her having a stroke and was more or less just a victim but still probably having to responsible for the debt when it comes down to it.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Since Discover has held on to the debt instead of selling it to debt collectors, you can try writing them with the full details including notes from the bank and any police reports. They might forgive the debt as a PR goodwill gesture.

Remember that you personally are not liable for anything.

Perhaps you need to have her declare bankruptcy to try to protect whatever assets are left like a house and any pension money coming in, but I have no idea whether that will accomplish anything.

Also, you might start looking into what assistance programs your state offers for the elderly and disabled. She might qualify for subsidies, reduced property taxes, etc. and they might offer non-financial help too.

 

[highland145]

Does she own her house? If they get a lien, that'll be a PITA down the line.

And what Dave said. I also assume that she doesn't have access to her $$/credit cards.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Banks aren't usually too willing to forgive that type of debt. The onus is always on the depositor. A google search will probably find a ton of examples of this happening and the banks saying oh well. They couldn't get any more negative publicity on the subject than they already have.

You could always try the CFPB ombudsman but in most cases banks will only work on a way to repay the amount. They won't eat the loss ever. Since it's gone to collections they probably no longer hold it so you'd be left dealing with the collection agency.

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/cfpb-ombudsman/

 

[Zee]

maybe bankruptcy? or payment plan or something with discover. or have someone loan her the money until she passes away and gets the executor gets the money and repays back with interest

 

[leeland]

Hi Dave,

Well they did pass it to a debt collection agency, which is basically how I personally found out about it...

I don't know what the limits are on a small claims limit...but if it is anywhere near 9,000 dollars they basically let the account balloon up to 9,000 dollars and then locked it. Then it went to collections.

When I finally got a hold of the debt collection agency to figure out what was all going on, it took 5 business days of farting around with a POA paperwork...then finally when it was all cleared up, I was told that my grandmother had representation with another company and that i coudln't talk to them.

I then found out a debt collection protection agency somehow got involved on her behalf (they said she called which she wouldn't / couldn't have) to which she apparently agreed to pay them 20% of whatever they saved her lol.

I told them to get bent when I finally got to talk to a real person.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I am not sure if you are serious / joking about that kickstarter comment...doing something like that for me wouldn't feel right trying to fix her problems from money from other people.

"Little old lady who got fleeced and the son trying to help her" is a pretty solid kickstarter/gofundme model, better than most I've seen. Hell, I'd donate to it. Just saying, there may be plenty of people out there willing to help for shit like this, if only to gain some karma points for when it inevitably happens to them and theirs.

 

[leeland]

Zee - I guess my inintial thought is some sort of payment plan back to the credit agency...and if they won't accept that they will just try to garnish her SS or pension payment...

I got a letter this week from the courthouse for an "Order for Financial Disclosure and Financial Disclosure Statement" form that I am supposed to fill out.

I haven't had a chance to read through all the documents sent with it, but it basically looks like a document that needs to be filled out to see if she qualifies for some level of garnishment.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Can't the CC company do a chargeback on the scam? Normally they are good for dealing with scams and yoiu arn't responsible. But since it's been going on for a while maybe it's too late? You'd still have to pay whatever else is on there though.

I wonder if she can declare bankrupcy, that might be the easiest way out if it's an option. But since she's already being sued it might be too late.

 

[highland145]

Small claims is $15K and under here (S.C.).

 

[DaveSimmons]

I then found out a debt collection protection agency somehow got involved on her behalf (they said she called which she wouldn't / couldn't have) to which she apparently agreed to pay them 20% of whatever they saved her lol.

That might be one to pass on to your state's Attorney General's office as fraud.

You need to get all of this in writing. Phone calls can and will be denied by the people on the other end.

Also, don't fail to show up for any court hearings. That gives them a default judgment. If your grandmother missed hearings because of the stroke you might be able to undo them but that's just a guess.

 

[leeland]

Does she own her house? If they get a lien, that'll be a PITA down the line.

And what Dave said. I also assume that she doesn't have access to her $$/credit cards.

Yeah, she has a house, and she has a loan on the house which is probably 70% of the value! Again, no idea why she would have a loan on the house and she can't recall details...it is a real shit show basically.

I suppose if things do go nuclear bankruptcy might be an option if it gets to be too bad for her, but so far it has been manageable, just very time consuming.

 

[leeland]

Can't the CC company do a chargeback on the scam? Normally they are good for dealing with scams and yoiu arn't responsible. But since it's been going on for a while maybe it's too late? You'd still have to pay whatever else is on there though.

I wonder if she can declare bankrupcy, that might be the easiest way out if it's an option. But since she's already being sued it might be too late.

well, the scam worked that they had her deposit the bogus check, and withdraw the money out of her account and mail it.

I am at this point assuming she took a cash advance on her CC to either fix her negative balance or do even more damage to send the money to the individual since the dates listed on the transactions don't really line up.

I am still missing pieces of the puzzle from her bank at the moment to confirm a few things.

SO...in reality the CC company doesn't care, they just see a 4,000 dollar cash advance...they aren't going to care that it was a result of a check scam...I would presume they are going to be like 'too bad, so sad..."

 

[highland145]

70%....that sucks.

A lesson to the rest of us...keep track of your elder's finances if you can. My Grandmother was scammed back in the early 90's. I check my Mom's every day just like I do mine. It's a habit formed from checking after the business account.

 

[DaveSimmons]

SO...in reality the CC company doesn't care, they just see a 4,000 dollar cash advance...they aren't going to care that it was a result of a check scam...I would presume they are going to be like 'too bad, so sad..."

That's usually the case, but not always. If Discover still owned the debt it would be worth trying to get them to forgive it but with debt collectors that won't work. It's possible the collectors will settle for much less than $9,000 though since they probably bought the debt at a steep discount.

That's just from reading random snippets in the paper, I've (thankfully) never been in this kind of trouble.

 

[leeland]

That might be one to pass on to your state's Attorney General's office as fraud.

You need to get all of this in writing. Phone calls can and will be denied by the people on the other end.

Also, don't fail to show up for any court hearings. That gives them a default judgment. If your grandmother missed hearings because of the stroke you might be able to undo them but that's just a guess.

There were a few factors on her missing the court appointment, one was I didn't know what I should do...two, I didn't even know what it was for, and I was failing at getting any answers...I didn't find out about the court hearing until the week before it was going on (heard about it on Saturday via letter, and the court hearing was the following week Tuesday...9 days later). it took literally the entire week of arguing with the debt collection agency to gain minimal verbal access to what the charges were for. it wasn't until the week of the court appointment that they said they would mail me a copy of all her credit card statements which is how i found the cash advance.

Discover credit card wouldn't help me at all, even with telling me what the charges were for because the account was 'closed / frozen' and sent to collections. I can't say I blame them, I assume they sent letters saying she hadn't paid and at that point what are they supposed to do...probably don't give a shit...and it would be more costly to even deal with it now, vs cutting the losses.

 

[leeland]

70%....that sucks.

A lesson to the rest of us...keep track of your elder's finances if you can. My Grandmother was scammed back in the early 90's. I check my Mom's every day just like I do mine. It's a habit formed from checking after the business account.

Absolutely good advice, one person I work with made the comment about taking over the elder family member's bills so they can't be in charge of making financial decisions and giving them access to an account with minimal funds to avoid situations like this.

 

[DaveSimmons]

> missed the court date

Being a stroke victim with diminished capacity is one good reason. The collection agency refusing to provide you with written documents in a timely manner is another,

But I'm no lawyer.

In your shoes I'd see if there is a state agency or office that helps the elderly, and also write the state attorney general's office about the collection agency not providing you the documents about the debt when you needed them for the court appearance. Both might be able to offer advice on what to do.

Also, is there a local TV news "troubleshooter" who helps out with fraud and such? They might see this as a good story to get involved with: "debt collectors prey on stroke victim"

 

[highland145]

Another thought...it may have gone to collections for Discover but I can't see that they would sell it to someone else if they're still looking for $$ via the court system. And what Dave said above....again.

And I wonder if they can even sell it after going through the courts and, let's say, getting a lien or judgement. Something in the back of my mind about it but I'm in S.C.

 

[Linflas]

I am POA for my mother, she has dementia/Alzheimer's and I feel for you. The scammers are endless that prey on these situations. Fortunately she is now in a care facility and isolated from having this happen to her now. It really depressed me when I started digging into her finances all the scams she had fallen for before I put a halt to all of it. I was pretty much told what you have been told here which is contact the state's attorney general etc. You are going to find that the true barriers are ahead when you have to deal with anything Federal, they don't recognize POA's so for Social Security etc. you will need to deal with their bureaucratic maze to get yourself declared as the person authorized to deal with her affairs. Oddly enough for taxes the POA is perfectly fine, go figure.

 

[SearchMaster]

Ugh - I hate scammers with a passion, especially those that prey on the elderly.

My neighbor, who is like a grandmother to my kids and is in her early 80s, still has her mental acuity and is generally very skeptical of people trying to get into her pocketbook. However she is also technically naive, and got one of those "Hi we're from Microsoft and your computer is flooding the internet with packets, you must have a virus" calls. Fortunately they only took her for $250, though I did have to reformat her computer after she allowed him to remote in and "fix her problem". She's wise enough not to have any of her banking websites auto-login or bookmarked and she keeps a close eye on them.

 

[Miramonti]

My grandmother was scammed by a Nigerian for over two years. It was unbelievable reading through all of her thousands of facebook messages after she passed. His very first message was a nice poem sent to her randomly, and once she replied, began grooming her with more love poems and notes for an ENTIRE YEAR before he began asking for money. He constantly told her how beautiful her eyes were, and she ate it up, yet I don't think he ever saw a photo until more than a year later. Her appreciation and trust was so deep after a year, that he could use so much guilt against her if she didn't want to send money or became suspicious, by using phrases like 'after all we've been through', and 'you know me better than that, I care for you too much.' She lost $15-20k in total, yet could have a lot more if the scammer really went for the kill instead of a ton of constant little requests. She was 83.

I know someone who works at a Kroger and can see all of the western union wires going through the store, and in this moderately busy store in not-a-huge city...there are so many WU wires going to Nigeria, you might sh!t your pants to realize how many people are actively getting scammed and how much money they are getting daily. Yet there is little the store can do (and probably less that Kroger actually wants to do, since it is very profitable for them.)

Regarding credit card debt, the longer you wait to pay it, the more leverage you have imo. Discover may even charge off the debt on their own without you ever knowing it, which essentially means they can't collect it anymore (there are legal precedents for this.) You can find this out on her credit report. Even tho this debt has gone to collections, its still likely controlled by discover and not sold. When I was going to file bankruptcy, I decided to negotiate with every credit card a settlement, which ultimately averaged 23 cents on the dollar. Discover only settled at 40% tho, but each of the negotiations had the debt collector (usually Indian firm) contact the credit card company to get approval for a proposed settlement. In one, I planned to settle a $10k bill with Amex, but happened to check my credit report to find they already charged it off (which no one ever told me in the many conversations I had with them), so I didn't have to pay them anything.