Problems with NEC FP2141SB 22 inch aperture grill displays

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Yeah man this is strange. The research I did prior to this purchase was fairly deep, but it was also in the middle of November (and my current FP2141SB-BK was MADE in November ) so who knows what could've changed since then. My logic at the time was "since it's new, and it's predecessor was top notch, I assume it will be a top quality monitor, probably the best in it's class." I never found anything but isolated complaints now and then, and the monitor ran out of stock at sites often, so I figured all was well. Also, as an "unrelated" bit of info (unrelated at the time), I learned about a month ago that a large portion of the online e-tailers share a warehouse network, so if one runs out of stock (one site advertised this fact cause it DOES sound good), they all do. What I thought to be a large sales volume could have actually been very small. AND, I THINK, the FP/DP SuperBright series were built after the NEC-Mitsu merger, whereas the DP2060u was on sale before as a Mitsubishi only monitor. This is turning into some Sherlock Holmes type of thing. Pieces of info coming together. Perhaps there's an NEC bad QC conspiracy ? Oh well, if they shut us up with free displays for life, I won't argue .

Then there's the question - Why if the two monitors are actually the same, is the NEC selling for less? One guy's theory (totally unsubstantiated and may well be hogwash) is that the NEC has cheaper electronics. Seems very unlikely since the specs are identical across the board. But is it possible that they pick out the better specimens and call them Mitsubishis? LOL I got two replies today to two inquiries I made today to techsupport@necmitsubishi.com. I wonder if I shouldn't reply to the last and ask point blank if they are having a lot of issues with the new line of 22" displays (ours). I may well get a candid response.

 

[FacelessNobody]

They could very well be picking the good monitors and call them Mitsubishis. It's like what nVidia does with its GPUs (4400 vs 4600 GPU for example). Please do reply and ask if they've been having problems. I was going to email them and ask them to have someone look at this thread, start an AT account, and then start talking to us. Come on, four monitors for three guys, soon to be SEVEN when we all get our replacements? They need some serious communication with us, plus an NEC tech on AT could earn them some points with enthusiasts, if he is open to a variety of questions, that is.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

TG you should definitely get another one, the geometry on both of the ones I've had so far has been perfect (except for linearity on monitor 1) and fully tunable for me.

OK, see that doesn't make me feel much better because everything was peachy except for the geometry. I now see a new order number for my return so it should be just a couple of days at most before mine is shipped. I'll update this thread with how it all turns out.

Fingers crossed on BOTH hands!!

The person who set up my RMA today told me that they expedite replacement orders, so it shouldn't take long. How and where do you see the info on your "new order number"? Did they send you an email? I've not heard from them yet, email-wise. I asked about how I would find out about tracking, etc. and she said she didn't know. When I ordered Monday I was told I would get it probably around the beginning of the following week, which would be 7+ days. It turned out to be 2 days! Will they be delivering Monday (MLK Jr.'s birthday)?

Faceless, I know you are in another boat here, not having ordered through Dell. Are you dealing with NEC/Mitsu direct or amatteroffax.com?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
They could very well be picking the good monitors and call them Mitsubishis. It's like what nVidia does with its GPUs (4400 vs 4600 GPU for example). Please do reply and ask if they've been having problems. I was going to email them and ask them to have someone look at this thread, start an AT account, and then start talking to us. Come on, four monitors for three guys, soon to be SEVEN when we all get our replacements? They need some serious communication with us, plus an NEC tech on AT could earn them some points with enthusiasts, if he is open to a variety of questions, that is.

Hey, go for it. What do we have to lose? Send them the link to the thread. They might have to subscribe to read it, I guess. Heck, you could subscribe for them and tell them the username and password...

As far as culling the merchandise is concerned, I think it's common knowledge that Intel (and probably AMD too) sorts through their CPU's and tests them and gives the better performing ones higher rated clock rates. I guess they lock down those rates sometimes, sometimes not. The methods for unlocking them are well known.

 

[FacelessNobody]

At this point, I'm through with amatteroffax.com. I've been satisfied with their help thus far (except for the return shipping charge ) but all three parties (amatteroffax, Me, and NEC) agree that it's now it's an NEC problem. NEC has been very quick to help me too, but I haven't gotten any emails saying my replacement has been shipped. I did, however, get the prepaid FedEx dealy, but I was told to wait until my replacement arrived before sending my current one out.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
At this point, I'm through with amatteroffax.com. I've been satisfied with their help thus far (except for the return shipping charge ) but all three parties (amatteroffax, Me, and NEC) agree that it's now it's an NEC problem. NEC has been very quick to help me too, but I haven't gotten any emails saying my replacement has been shipped. I did, however, get the prepaid FedEx dealy, but I was told to wait until my replacement arrived before sending my current one out.

OK, let me ask this: What exactly is wrong with THIS one? This one has 6 black pixels, also called "off" pixels, I believe (I forget the site I went to that had this info or the person who filled me in). Are there any other problems with this monitor? Not belittling your concern, mind you - it's at least 6 times worse than mine, I gather.

Edit: BTW, I just sent N/M tech support an email asking them if there have been a lot of issues with the November 2002 crop of these displays. I described yours and Tourguide's problems in as much detail as I understood them. I stopped short of inviting them to join our discussion in this thread. I'll leave that honor to you.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Oh the honor was mine . I sent a very polite but firm email to NEC tech support asking them to join in and at least get involved with the enthusiast community. Joining in on AT would be more than any other company has done so far. Hell, maybe they can offer us deals, too . This monitor has the six black dots, as well as the strange vertical lines, one of which is darker than the AG lines against a white background . Monitor #1 for me was the part-of-the-image-flickering, stretched-out-top-third-of-display-screwed-up-linearity monitor.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Oh the honor was mine . I sent a very polite but firm email to NEC tech support asking them to join in and at least get involved with the enthusiast community. Joining in on AT would be more than any other company has done so far. Hell, maybe they can offer us deals, too . This monitor has the six black dots, as well as the strange vertical lines, one of which is darker than the AG lines against a white background . Monitor #1 for me was the part-of-the-image-flickering, stretched-out-top-third-of-display-screwed-up-linearity monitor.

Man, I've really gotta wonder if I shouldn't count myself lucky to have the one I have... Or else try a CPD-G520 instead. They have lemons too, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Rediculous is right, and that should startle NEC a little more than it probably will. Anyone reading this thread will think a little less of NEC, even if it all works out well for us. While enthusiasts like ATers are definitely not the largest consumer segment, our influence extends quite far. Who writes the product reviews? Who, when asked "what *product* should I get?" is known to give out recommendations? Who buys all the top-of-the-line equipment when it's introduced? Also, our very problem will repeat itself. Anybody who searches for easily accessible customer reviews on the NEC FP2141SB-BK and Mitsubishi DP2070SB-BK will probably come across this thread (until it gets buried). If this is the only recent customer experience info available, how many people will that frighten away? That's probably all an exaggeration but believe most of us would consider damage control from NEC to be a smart move. In the long run, will this really affect NEC's business? Hell no, unfortunately. VIA is a classic example. Many people hate their products but they still turn a profit. ATi is a more current example with their 9500 through 9700 Pro video cards. Many users with VIA and SiS chipsets have nasty problems with the two (I'm a victim of that myself). Just check out rage3d.com for many irate user's experiences with that. Let's hope NEC realizes that effort now pays dividends later.

 

[TourGuide]

OK. You don't have this near an unshielded speaker, do you? I haven't done a thing with the geometry except moving the image left <---> right and up vs. down, and stretching/compressing horizontally and vertically. I don't see any geometry problems that motivate me to want to mess with the other controls just yet, although there's supposed to be rotation, trapezoidal (I think), pincushion (I think), and probably several others. You might try moving the monitor, believe it or not. Try rotating it's position, say 90 degrees and see if that has any effect. The earth's magnetic field can really affect a monitor's geometry. I read that aperture grill monitors are especially hard to find with perfect geometry, although the aberations you describe sound like more than minor imperfections.

Not next to any unshielded speakers at all, and I've fooled with ALL the applicalbe geometry adjustments but as I said, one adjustment just screwes over some other aspect of the screen at this point. Tried the turn it 90 degrees thing and it had no effect. I would have been satisfied had I gotten a monitor I could have ADJUSTED into perfection, but this one just can't be coaxed into place no matter what. I could have cared less what the original picture looked like as long as I could make it right.

The person who set up my RMA today told me that they expedite replacement orders, so it shouldn't take long. How and where do you see the info on your "new order number"? Did they send you an email? I've not heard from them yet, email-wise. I asked about how I would find out about tracking, etc. and she said she didn't know. When I ordered Monday I was told I would get it probably around the beginning of the following week, which would be 7+ days. It turned out to be 2 days! Will they be delivering Monday (MLK Jr.'s birthday)?

I must have been talking to the pinhead on staff because I was told that it takes Dell 7-10 days to process the return order then generate an order number. In my experience, it turned out to be about 4 days. Which is still a PITA if you ask me. It shouldn't take that long. It looks like you and I will be getting our monitors on the same day.

Oh BTW Dan, I accidentally deleted and bounced your last email to me. Could you resend it? I still haven't gotten used to using mailwasher and your email slipped through without me removing the checkmarks. Sorry about that.

 

[TourGuide]

OK, now I am noticing other problems with this too. Like I have vertical lines, similar to the damper wires although running vertical instead of horizontal down the screen. I am definately glad I am sending this unit back.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Rediculous is right, and that should startle NEC a little more than it probably will. Anyone reading this thread will think a little less of NEC, even if it all works out well for us. While enthusiasts like ATers are definitely not the largest consumer segment, our influence extends quite far. Who writes the product reviews? Who, when asked "what *product* should I get?" is known to give out recommendations? Who buys all the top-of-the-line equipment when it's introduced? Also, our very problem will repeat itself. Anybody who searches for easily accessible customer reviews on the NEC FP2141SB-BK and Mitsubishi DP2070SB-BK will probably come across this thread (until it gets buried). If this is the only recent customer experience info available, how many people will that frighten away? That's probably all an exaggeration but believe most of us would consider damage control from NEC to be a smart move. In the long run, will this really affect NEC's business? Hell no, unfortunately. VIA is a classic example. Many people hate their products but they still turn a profit. ATi is a more current example with their 9500 through 9700 Pro video cards. Many users with VIA and SiS chipsets have nasty problems with the two (I'm a victim of that myself). Just check out rage3d.com for many irate user's experiences with that. Let's hope NEC realizes that effort now pays dividends later.

I don't think Google searches come up with our thread, unless I'm mistaken. Can you find our thread in a Google search? I think that at least one of us should write a well considered and carefully composed review and put it up on Cnet.com or epinions, Amazon.com or similar. It's very true that this will be very influential as you suggest. I tried HARD to find a customer review and couldn't. If I'd found a review such as I would be likely to write at this point, I doubt I would have ordered this monitor. I'm not looking at it right now because I don't have room where my first machine is located for it. I'm using my 17" CRT. I think you guys should RMA until you are satisfied with what you get. Have your heart set on the NEC or abandon it and get a Sony CPD-G520 or something else, it's up to you. Myself, I've virtually decided at this point to keep the one I have. Honestly, I believe that one black pixel is less than 1/100th the problem that the horizontal wires represent! It's like a speck of dust, no more. I'll have trouble keeping the screen clean enough where it's the predominant such speck. Given the problems you guys report I think I should count myself fortunate to have one that's so relatively virtuous. Perfection? I haven't encountered a perfect monitor. Not a CRT, anyway. I'm not very experienced compared to a lot of people. I used a 21" at work for a month or two. It was on lease and they took it away from me and I went back to 17". I've used a number of 17" monitors, none better than the one I'm looking at now, and it's absolutely inferior to the NEC 22". Really, the issues I have with it are these:

1. It's definitely not as sharp in the lower left hand corner. It's still good, but not quite as sharp down there. I don't normally read small text down there anyway. I scroll before I get that far and besides, I don't normally read small text - I enlarge it to where I'm very comfortable with it, typically something like Arial 14 point. That font looks very sharp on this display, all over.

2. On TourGuide's notice, I looked for some Batman flare at the top of the image at the corners and I found a slight flare. I don't think it's a big issue. It's probably between 1/16th and 1/32nd inch flared out from perfectly vertical. When I tried to correct it I found I couldn't get it better than the default settings, so I figure I can live with it. Test patterns, to my eye look virtually perfect if not absolutely. I can determine some lack of precision on the boundaries but mainly because I have the edge of the case to compare against. Otherwise, I might not even notice that. Adjusting and noticing the effects, I dedided that whoever adjusted my monitor in the factory probably had access to a configuration system of hardware and/or software that enabled a much better adjustment than I am able to obtain if I play with the adjustments. Maybe after a year or two or more of use, I can improve things over the factory defaults, but I think that the factory defaults are probably what I will stick with (besides the aforementioned left/right and stretching). You can reset any particular setting to defaults by selecting the adjustment and hitting the "reset" button and confirming. Or if you are in the main menu, you can reset an entire submenu similarly. I did this for the moire, convergence, etc. submenu, and the trapezoidal, pincushion, etc. submenu, after messing with the adjustments and deciding that I'm probably better off with the defaults, which I gather were arrived at via test equipment in the factory.

3. The superbright function, at the highest setting ("2"), causes some ghosting. I guess I won't use the highest setting, even for movies. The "1" setting ("off" is the 3rd), looks fine and works fine, AFAIK, so I'll use it. I like this feature more than anything because I don't like to walk away from a monitor when it's bright, especially if it's mine! I figure it depletes the useful life of a monitor to run it unnecessarily at bright settings. Of course, I have my system set to turn off the monitor after some minutes of disuse (20, right now).

I'm not certain, I might have a look at a replacement monitor if it gets to me before I have to ship the one I have, however unless I'm sure the one they send me is better than the one I have, I'm not parting with it. I might just call and cancel the RMA. Truly, I'm leaning that way.

I'm sure that NEC will try hard to ramp up their QA, and so far I'm getting quick and apparently at least partly personal attention via email. Their responses look to be largely boilerplate but I see a personal touch. Somebody has read my emails, I believe! I've seen far worse. I'm contacting the manufacturer of my video card (BFG) next week to make sure my card supports DDC/CI before I pursue that problem further.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
OK, now I am noticing other problems with this too. Like I have vertical lines, similar to the damper wires although running vertical instead of horizontal down the screen. I am definately glad I am sending this unit back.

Looks like you AND Faceless are seeing this aberration. I haven't noticed anything like that.

 

[Muse]

I must have been talking to the pinhead on staff because I was told that it takes Dell 7-10 days to process the return order then generate an order number. In my experience, it turned out to be about 4 days. Which is still a PITA if you ask me. It shouldn't take that long. It looks like you and I will be getting our monitors on the same day.

Oh BTW Dan, I accidentally deleted and bounced your last email to me. Could you resend it? I still haven't gotten used to using mailwasher and your email slipped through without me removing the checkmarks. Sorry about that.

This is my 2nd order from Dell and I've had occasion to call them a number of times. It took me over an hour to get a human who was in a position to initiate my RMA yesterday. She was very apologetic about how long and painstaking the RMA process was, and I assured her I was simply delighted to actually have a person on the line who would help me instead of transfer me somewhere else. What number did you call?????

My impression is strongly that Dell has gotten pretty top heavy in their support system. Complex, many departments and not enough coordination, too many people who aren't heads up on what's really going on. I talked to some very good people but they seem to be the exception in their system.

I have no idea when my replacement monitor is apt to arrive if I don't intervene and stop the RMA process. What I do know is that Airborne Express is supposed to show up at my door on Tuesday morning after 11:00 with the shipping label. That's as much as I know. I'm given to believe that I don't have to give them the box at that time, but can call them later to pick it up.

I resent that email to you, Tourguide. I use Mailwasher too, and have stuck with it in spite of the problems I had with it early on. It's pretty effective and nice once you get the hang of it. I installed the latest beta a few days ago but was getting some very annoying behavior, so I installed the "last stable version" instead and I seem OK.

BTW, guys, this link was brought to my attention by the guy who created it (lead technician at Monitorsdirect.com) yesterday. It looks like a really cool resource to test your display and bone up on the technical aspects, terms, etc.

 

[TourGuide]

Looks like you AND Faceless are seeing this aberration. I haven't noticed anything like that.

In messing about trying to fix the problem I've noticed that degaussing seems to remove the lines. We shall see if they come back over time.

Myself, I've virtually decided at this point to keep the one I have.

Are you sure you want to do this Dan? I plan to RMA mine until I get one I can adjust to my standards, or one that is perfect out of the box. The G520 I had was as close as I've ever come to achieving that. It really makes me wonder if I shouldn't have asked for another 520. :/

BTW, guys, this link was brought to my attention

Saw that. I bookmarked it too. That's one of the benefits of participating on the boards - the resources you are directed to.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Yeah that monitor test kicks ass! I like it and thank whoever brought it to our attention. My monitor walked all over that test, too. The only problems I noticed both involved the color red. Its vertical convergence is a touch off, and its color purity isn't that of green, blue, and white, but it's still really good. TourGuide is right about the lines. Over use (and a little degaussing now and then), most of the vertical lines on this monitor have vanished, but I've still got three or four including one really dark one that's obviously not being projected by the monitor, but rather is on the inside of the screen like the AG lines and the spots. And, like TourGuide, I plan to RMA till satisfied.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

Looks like you AND Faceless are seeing this aberration. I haven't noticed anything like that.

In messing about trying to fix the problem I've noticed that degaussing seems to remove the lines. We shall see if they come back over time.

Good tip. Thanks. I haven't deguassed even once yet. I shall next time I fire up the disply

Myself, I've virtually decided at this point to keep the one I have.

Are you sure you want to do this Dan? I plan to RMA mine until I get one I can adjust to my standards, or one that is perfect out of the box. The G520 I had was as close as I've ever come to achieving that. It really makes me wonder if I shouldn't have asked for another 520. :/

I'm not sure. I have the weekend to think about it. Like I say, I'd rather keep the one I have than let it go without having a look at its replacement. I feel a little guilty playing Dell/NEC like this, but I'm just not knowledgeable. Obviously I'm entitled to a display with no bad pixels, but the prospect of getting one with "perfect" geometry and perfectly uniform text display may be an illusion. I just don't have enough experience or knowledge to say.

BTW, guys, this link was brought to my attention

Saw that. I bookmarked it too. That's one of the benefits of participating on the boards - the resources you are directed to.

Right, I've gotten some tech support for free and extensive sometimes from some people with serious credentials. I love Anandtech forums.

BTW, I started thinking about reset to defaults and I have a feeling that this is best when you are planning on using the "recommended" settings: 1600 x 1200 at 85 Hz. I bet they make the adjustments in the factory at those settings and don't bother to check out the others.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Yeah that monitor test kicks ass! I like it and thank whoever brought it to our attention. My monitor walked all over that test, too. The only problems I noticed both involved the color red. Its vertical convergence is a touch off, and its color purity isn't that of green, blue, and white, but it's still really good. TourGuide is right about the lines. Over use (and a little degaussing now and then), most of the vertical lines on this monitor have vanished, but I've still got three or four including one really dark one that's obviously not being projected by the monitor, but rather is on the inside of the screen like the AG lines and the spots. And, like TourGuide, I plan to RMA till satisfied.

I first got the idea of this monitor from reading the review at Cadalyst.com. It sounded quite a bit better than the Sony CPD-G520's review at the same site. It got me thinking, although I'd heard nothing else anywhere including these forums. So I started the thread seeking recommendations for a 21+" display and you said you had this monitor and you pointed me to Tom's Hardware's review of the 2060 and I was really interested. Couldn't find customer reviews of the new ones, but those few of the 2060 at Cnet.com, which were so positive and detailed I decided to order. You know the rest.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Yup, she's got potential . And given all that info we had, we could certainly have not forseen this predicament. Based on my (really shitty--two bad mobos, two bad vid cards) luck with this system I thought monitor #1 was a fluke. Subtract these stupid annoying problems and we'd be enjoying one hell of a monitor. Amazing, this is my 11th system build, too. 1-10 had no problems with anything. Now that I go to make one for myself, luck craps on me .

 

[TourGuide]

I first got the idea of this monitor from reading the review at Cadalyst.com. It sounded quite a bit better than the Sony CPD-G520's review at the same site.

I have to say, that if it weren't for the goofy geometry problems this monitor would walk all over that G520 for color reproduction and just about everything else too. The colors on the G520 comparatively are more washed out. On the NEC they are more brilliant and true to life.

Subtract these stupid annoying problems and we'd be enjoying one hell of a monitor. Amazing, this is my 11th system build, too. 1-10 had no problems with anything. Now that I go to make one for myself, luck craps on me .

I think at least some of this goes back to the fact that we (at least I know it's true with me) acquire a taste for better and better hardware the more we are around it and educate ourselves about it. I know my standards are different now than they were 5 years ago or more.

 

[Muse]

Well, I think that my geometry is quite acceptable. It isn't perfect but it's very good, IMO. So you guys should take heart. If my experience is any indication, you can get one with decent geometry. I wish I had room for that monitor where I'm sitting. I think I might be able to squeeze it in for a few days but I'd have to remove a special shelf I made for my scanner (lightly used, admittedly). Anyway, it's going to go in another room.

 

[Booster]

Your situation is nothing out of the ordinary, I had terrible image quality problems with my 17" NEC. Of course, that size is a low-end product unlike yours, but it just shows you. The image was t e r r i b l e, I swear. AFAIK, NEC and Mitsubishi monitors by far aren't the same. They may have the same specs (don't all the different ones?), but the quality of NEC monitors is definitely lower as far as my experience goes.

And, on a side note, today's cheaper than ever monitors are much worse tuned than they used to be even as little as 5 years ago. This is a real problem for all the brands. You're more likely to see huge misconvergence, jittering, crappy uniformity on the screens as the quality standards are going down.

 

[GrumpyMan]

I don't know about the NEC's but my Mitsu 2060u has perfect geometry with deep rich colors and crisp text. If this is due to better hardware I'm not sure. Of course I had to go through 2 of them to get a good one too. The first one I ordered did not have the text qualilty that I was looking for. Some of the letters seemed to be lighter than others across the screen. Of course they RMAed it immediately and thank god the second one is perfect. Rough handling is usually the culprit in these circumstances, the boxes are so big that it pisses off the UPS guys and they just throw them around and stuff. But it's hard to find a good place that sells high end monitors in town.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Booster
Your situation is nothing out of the ordinary, I had terrible image quality problems with my 17" NEC. Of course, that size is a low-end product unlike yours, but it just shows you. The image was t e r r i b l e, I swear. AFAIK, NEC and Mitsubishi monitors by far aren't the same. They may have the same specs (don't all the different ones?), but the quality of NEC monitors is definitely lower as far as my experience goes.

And, on a side note, today's cheaper than ever monitors are much worse tuned than they used to be even as little as 5 years ago. This is a real problem for all the brands. You're more likely to see huge misconvergence, jittering, crappy uniformity on the screens as the quality standards are going down.

The more I find out about this the more I think I should be satisfied with my monitor, one black pixel and all. I doubt that people realize just how tiny this pixel is. Sitting at a normal distance from the screen (2 feet, according to NEC), you can only distinguish that pixel if the background is light (white, yellow, etc.), and you are looking directly at an area no more than a square inch or so. It is the size of a small grain of salt - very tiny indeed. I swear, the horizontal wires are far far more of a problem. Inasmuch as I can identify no other issues that I can identify as evidence of substandard quality, I believe I should count myself lucky. However, I wonder if this display might deteriorate. My Nanao is 7 years old and it's been a rock the whole time. I don't know that I can expect such luck with this monitor. Well, it IS warrantied for parts and workmanship for 3 years by NEC. If something goes wrong or I decide I don't like that pixel problem, I may ask for a Mitsubishi in exchange. Maybe the QA was better with those, who knows?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: GrumpyMan
I don't know about the NEC's but my Mitsu 2060u has perfect geometry with deep rich colors and crisp text. If this is due to better hardware I'm not sure. Of course I had to go through 2 of them to get a good one too. The first one I ordered did not have the text qualilty that I was looking for. Some of the letters seemed to be lighter than others across the screen. Of course they RMAed it immediately and thank god the second one is perfect. Rough handling is usually the culprit in these circumstances, the boxes are so big that it pisses off the UPS guys and they just throw them around and stuff. But it's hard to find a good place that sells high end monitors in town.

Oh, that's another thing. Yes, my text is not equally as crisp all over the screen and that's my major complaint. The box was clearly abused, and YES, I'd think to blame UPS's workers, be they drivers or warehousemen. One of the packing forms was broken basically all the way through. Somebody really tossed that sucker - NOT good for a monitor. Maybe I will not cancel my RMA and see if the next one is better.

I wonder what they do with RMA'd monitors. I bet they readjust some of them and sell them again, maybe as refurbs. If a CRT loses its convergence and/or focus due to rough handling maybe they can correct it with adjustments.

Yes, I couldn't find this monitor in town although I didn't look everywhere. When I bought my Nanao I did search extensively and exhaustively and absolutely couldn't find one on display, and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, not far from Silicon Valley, and the whole area is probably THE high tech mecca of the USA. I wound up driving to Silicon Valley and picking up my monitor in a box. I'd never laid eyes on it until I pulled it out of the box.