Problems with NEC FP2141SB 22 inch aperture grill displays

[TourGuide]

I think I've decided that if the next one that comes isn't perfect (or dang close to it) I'm going to exchange for a Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK. I probably should have gone this way right from the get-go but that's the way it goes. For another $10 I shouldn't have even thought about it. Oh well. Live and learn.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
I think I've decided that if the next one that comes isn't perfect (or dang close to it) I'm going to exchange for a Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK. I probably should have gone this way right from the get-go but that's the way it goes. For another $10 I shouldn't have even thought about it. Oh well. Live and learn.

Please keep us posted, whatever happens. We don't really know if they cull the best to Mistu, but it's certainly worth entertaining the idea. For a few more bucks you can try the Mitsu and may have better luck. Like I said, one of my packing styrofoam forms was busted and that does concern me. Somebody tossed that box pretty brutally. Do you have any idea at all when or how you will get your replacement? Did you get any emails from Dell? What number did you call when you requested your RMA, or did you go through a transfer-->transfer-->transfer before you got to the "right" person? I got an RMA reference number that I'm supposed to put on the outside of the box, but no emails from Dell. I was told that they expedite RMAs and I think they cross ship but I'm wondering. I really don't want to let go of my monitor until I see the replacement. IOW, I REQUIRE cross shipment at this juncture. If I knew I couldn't live with my monitor, I wouldn't, but I'm unwilling to chance that the next will be better. If your next NEC doesn't cut it and you get a Mitsu instead that's OK, I may go that route too. Hopefully, they will still honor that 10% discount and free shipping.

 

[TourGuide]

Please keep us posted, whatever happens.

Will do.

My monitor comes in tomorrow, if Airborne is to be believed. To get my RMA I called 1-800-624-9897 which is their customer care line for home and home office purchases. There was no transfering business with me. I just gave them an order number and I had my reference number. Then it was like 3 days until the replacement was shipped.

I'll update after I've had a chance to test the incoming hardware.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

Please keep us posted, whatever happens.

Will do.

My monitor comes in tomorrow, if Airborne is to be believed. To get my RMA I called 1-800-624-9897 which is their customer care line for home and home office purchases. There was no transfering business with me. I just gave them an order number and I had my reference number. Then it was like 3 days until the replacement was shipped.

I'll update after I've had a chance to test the incoming hardware.

Are they cross shipping. IOW, do you get to see your new one before you ship back the former?

BTW, I'm now looking at my NEC 22". I made my first network cable (had to modify the el cheapo crimper), and it's got my new box (and monitor) connected to the Internet. Whoooopee.....

Ya, know, that dead pixel actually has a function. If I can find it I can use it to see if I'm sitting a good distance from the monitor. If I can't focus on that little sucker, I have to more closer or further away. My only concern, really, is that another monitor might have crisper and more uniform text. I wish there was some place I could go where I could see a reference awesome 21" display that I could play with but I don't know of any. This isn't too bad, though. Sure beats the crap out of my 17", no contest. I'm already spoiled.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Before I chose the NEC over the Mitsubishi, I did spot one difference between the two. If you read the NEC-Mitsu site's description of both, you'll see that the Mitsubishi comes with NaviSet software whereas we have to download NaviSet for the NEC. As for inspecting the monitors and naming the good ones Mitsubishi, I personally have a hard time they're giving any of these monitors a good inspection in the first place. If they put my current FP2141SB up for a quick test, they would've easily seen the big vertical line and some of the dots have they done one solid color test. I've found websites where the price difference between these two monitors is only $2. NEC would have a LOT of freaking nerve to charge $700 some dollars (not on Dell, but elsewhere) for a product known to be inferior. I could be wrong, but it seems far fetched that NEC would allow itself to be seen as "crappier".

 

[TourGuide]

Are they cross shipping. IOW, do you get to see your new one before you ship back the former?

They're not cross shipping, and that is a good thing because I'll be able to inspect and test the replacement before I send the original back. I can see I am going to have to be very careful and meticulous about the examination too.

it seems far fetched that NEC would allow itself to be seen as "crappier".

I've got to agree with you there. The 2070 does appear to have some added features that the 2141 does not, which I do not really care about IF the replacement is acceptable. All questions will be answered tomorrow.

 

[Muse]

What features does the 2070 have that the 2141 doesn't? I inspected the specifications (detailed) at the NEC/Mitsu website for both and it appeared to me that they were identical in every respect. I wasn't aware that Naviset was supplied with the Mitsu and not the NEC, but that doesn't prove that there's any difference other than the stencil on the case saying Mitsu rather than NEC. I agree that it's a stretch to think that they would cull the good ones and call them Mitsu's, however if you keep getting lemon NEC's you might want to try your luck with the 2070. Maybe you'd get one that was manufactured in a different time window, for example early Dec. or late Oct. My monitor has pretty good text all over but careful inspection shows it's very definitely sharper in some places than others. If it could be uniformly as sharp all over as it is in the best places I'd be ecstatic!

I thought cross shipping meant they'd ship a new one out before receiving the one you have. If they do that and allow delivery before they pickup the one you have, you could take your pick, I figure. I would have no problem explaining that to them. I was ready to ship out my dead pixel monitor and wait on a replacement, but reading your posts has made me decide that doing so would be pure folly. I would explain that to Dell if necessary. I think I'm quite justified to have that attitude under the circumstances.

 

[FacelessNobody]

I would explain that to Dell if necessary. I think I'm quite justified to have that attitude under the circumstances.

Oh definitely. Dell should be smart enough not to give you any flak, too. If they do, point em here .

I wasn't aware that Naviset was supplied with the Mitsu and not the NEC...

Check this out (direct from NEC-Mitsu's site):

NEC FP2141SB-BK description: Experience the ultimate in screen performance with the 22? (20? viewable) NEC MultiSync FP2141SB CRT monitor. This model?s flat screen virtually eliminates glare and distortion, while providing excellent sharpness and brightness, and a minimalist cabinet design with recessed cable connections frees up desktop space. Its sRGB capabilities provide for better color-matching.

Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK description: With its superior screen display and dynamic cabinet design, the 22? (20? viewable) Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB CRT monitor brings you to the forefront of technology. This model?s flat screen provides high resolution, while reducing glare, and NaViSet(TM) software allows you to adjust screen settings using your mouse and keyboard.

Elsewhere in the site, it's only mentioned that the FP2141SB-BK can use the NaviSet software, but says nothing about it actually having it. Still, this is all deductive logic, I could be wrong. It's my current belief that they're absolutely identical except one comes with a CD and the other doesn't. Oh I suppose the silver paint on the front is changed too (except for the SuperBright marking ).

 

[TourGuide]

The Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK features the U-NX electron gun that includes an additional lens for improved focus and convergence. Using GlobalSync® technology, the Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK can counter cross-talk between monitors and the earth's magnetic field delivering consistent brightness uniformity.

That is from the Dell website. That is what I was thinking about when I said more features. I think it has the additional lens and the globalsync.

 

[Muse]

The wording doesn't rule out the Naviset is a download, IMO. Companies are cutting costs and not supplying a CD is cost cutting. I printed out the manual even before I got shipment. If I return the one I have I'll include everything that was with it, manual included.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

The Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK features the U-NX electron gun that includes an additional lens for improved focus and convergence. Using GlobalSync® technology, the Diamond Pro 2070SB-BK can counter cross-talk between monitors and the earth's magnetic field delivering consistent brightness uniformity.

That is from the Dell website. That is what I was thinking about when I said more features. I think it has the additional lens and the globalsync.

I doubt that the NEC doesn't have those exact same features although the marketing/etc. may call it something else. Anyone want to research this?

 

[Muse]

This is the manual at N/M's website for the 2070u, and on page 4 it lists the same contents of the box as what comes with the NEC. No CD. I see no difference yet between the two based on what I see at N/M's website, but Dell does indicate different things. What that means, I can't say. I'm going to print out the manual (the pages in English) for the 2070u and compare it with the one for the 2141 and see if I can find something.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Aaaahh yes, the manuals. I should've thought of that . I never heard of that electron gun, but our FP2141SB-BKs DO have GlobalSync. You'll see it in your manual, and I think it may even be mentioned by name in the monitor's OSM. (Edit: I checked and it is in the OSM, go to the first tab with the tools, and you'll see the adjustments that allow you to change the corners are called GlobalSync controls). It's also clearly labeled in NaviSet. Also, if the Mitsubishi had a different electron gun, would it not perform differently?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Aaaahh yes, the manuals. I should've thought of that . I never heard of that electron gun, but our FP2141SB-BKs DO have GlobalSync. You'll see it in your manual, and I think it may even be mentioned by name in the monitor's OSM. (Edit: I checked and it is in the OSM, go to the first tab with the tools, and you'll see the adjustments that allow you to change the corners are called GlobalSync controls). It's also clearly labeled in NaviSet. Also, if the Mitsubishi had a different electron gun, would it not perform differently?

I think they are really the same monitor. Although you can find extremely minor differences in the manual, my combing through things indicates that they are spurious. For instance, the cabinet dimensions are shown as the same in the manual in millimeters but different in inches. What can that mean? You go to the website and the dimensions are shown as the same in mm and inches. GlobalSync is on page 13 of both manuals. I haven't messed with it, but my thought was that everything was tweaked at the factory for best performance and the recommended settings (1600 x 1200 85 Hz), but a bumpy trip might have changed that, I don't know.

They are apparently the same monitor with two different names. When did NEC and Mitsubishi merge? Did one buy the other? I assume NEC was bought by Mitsubishi.

 

[Muse]

TourGuide and Faceless:

I just PM'd you guys with NEC/Mitsu's reply to my inquiry about whether or not they were seeing a lot of problems with this display. In a nutshell, he said "no." However, read for yourself. 4 baduns out of 4 is alarming, seems to me.

 

[FacelessNobody]

According to the PDF from the Commission of the European Communities, NEC and Mitsubishi merged in 2000. I think they just hooked up as opposed to one purchasing the other, "combining NEC's leadership in LCD technology with Mitsubishi's expertise in CRTs." Back when I asked ATers if the NEC and Mitsubishi monitors were the same, the guy who runs that monitor website and posts here (gosharkss I think his name is) confirmed that they were, and (I think it was him) said the Mitsubishi costs more because the Mitsu name can carries more brand recognition in the monitor world than NEC.

 

[TourGuide]

You guys are probably right in saying that NEC and Mitsu monitors are one in the same. I just found the global sync commands in the OSD.

I just got the new one plugged in and I *think* I have one I can live with. Is it perfect? No, it does have it's flaws, but the geometry on this, which is VERY good at default, seems to be tunable to near perfection, which is good enough for me. The only other flaw that I can find with it is the color purity of the red gun is off in a small section of the left part of the screen. This fact would be virtually undetectable if it weren't for those monitor tests I have bookmarked. I'm probably keeping this one, unless it develops, or I see major hairy problems in the next few days.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
You guys are probably right in saying that NEC and Mitsu monitors are one in the same. I just found the global sync commands in the OSD.

I just got the new one plugged in and I *think* I have one I can live with. Is it perfect? No, it does have it's flaws, but the geometry on this, which is VERY good at default, seems to be tunable to near perfection, which is good enough for me. The only other flaw that I can find with it is the color purity of the red gun is off in a small section of the left part of the screen. This fact would be virtually undetectable if it weren't for those monitor tests I have bookmarked. I'm probably keeping this one, unless it develops, or I see major hairy problems in the next few days.

Did you get to see this monitor before departing from the former one? What tests are you running? Are they the ones at Monitorsdirect.com? Running that, I too see what looks to me to be some nonuniformity of pure red on the left side (ESPECIALLY lower) of the screen. I see a little on the right side, but it's 10 times more pronounced on the left. I'm partially color blind, so I'm not the best one to judge color purity, however I may be equiped to detect on this test. How uniform is your text? Is it the same at the corners as in the center, etc. etc.? Talking small text here - 8 point. Are you getting perfect color convergence? I know, monitorsdirect says that NO monitor has perfect convergence, so I'm not worried about that, but I see quite a bit of misconvergence, about the width of the line when split out in colors. Curious what you are seening. More curious about the text, though. That's right at the top of my priorities. BTW, what video card are you using? Are you getting DDC/CI support - i.e. is your Naviset working? I still can't get mine to work and I've tried about everything. I wonder if it's my video card. Faceless has an ATI Radeon 9700. I have BFG Asylum ti4200 geforce4 and my other computer has an MSI geforce2 Pro, and I've tried both without success. I'm running the latest WHQL certified nVidia driver on both, 40.72. I called BFG yesterday and the people I'd talked to had never heard of DDC/CI. They said they'd do their homework and I should call them in a few days if I still need help.

Glad you like your new one. Congrats. When did you set up your RMA? I still haven't heard from Dell about mine. I have no idea at all when to expect a replacement. Airborne is due to deliver my shipping label for the one I have in 5 hours.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
According to the PDF from the Commission of the European Communities, NEC and Mitsubishi merged in 2000. I think they just hooked up as opposed to one purchasing the other, "combining NEC's leadership in LCD technology with Mitsubishi's expertise in CRTs." Back when I asked ATers if the NEC and Mitsubishi monitors were the same, the guy who runs that monitor website and posts here (gosharkss I think his name is) confirmed that they were, and (I think it was him) said the Mitsubishi costs more because the Mitsu name can carries more brand recognition in the monitor world than NEC.

That's what one would think. It doesn't make sense that they would have differences and make no effort at all to demonstrate this much less hide the fact. Do they publish an MSRP? That they CAN control, but what the market is asking, supply/demand has a big hand in, obviously. "That monitor website" you mentioned, I take it to be monitorsdirect.com, right? Yeah, I remember that gosharkss username, come to think of it. I guess he's near San Jose. He may even be reading our thread... :Q Go Sharks, Go Raiders....

 

[Gosharkss]

I came across your thread, yes I'm still around. To answer your questions, NEC and Mitsubishi merged their monitor groups and created a new company called NMV. NMV sells NEC and Mitsubishi branded monitor products. To my knowledge the FP2141 and the 2070 are identical units.

 

[TourGuide]

Did you get to see this monitor before departing from the former one? What tests are you running? Are they the ones at Monitorsdirect.com?

1. Yes.

2. The ones on monitorsdirect.com

3. Yes.

Running that, I too see what looks to me to be some nonuniformity of pure red on the left side (ESPECIALLY lower) of the screen.

I have this in the extreme left/middle of the screen. It's not huge and it certianly isn't so noticable that I see any color irregularity in any graphics I have been able to test it with. I probably would not even know it is there were it not for this test.

How uniform is your text? Is it the same at the corners as in the center, etc. etc.? Talking small text here - 8 point. Are you getting perfect color convergence?

Convergence is simply excellent. Text is uniform and crisp, even very small text on a 1600x1200 screen (haven't tried higher as I have no use for this) corner to corner. The color convergence is near perfect. I goofed around with it, trying to improve it and mearly managed to get it out of whack. I went back to factory defaults and it looks great.

BTW, what video card are you using?

I'm running a Gainward GF4 Ti4600 with the 40.72 driver set just like you. I haven't tried the Naviset utility but after I've had a chance I can let you know if it works for me or not. I've no idea if my vid card supports DDC/CI, whatever that is. I've never had occasion to need it, or be concerned about it.

When did you set up your RMA?

It was about a week for me from phone call to delivery. You ought to be able to check the website under your account to get a detail of the RMA. It will appear as a new order.

One thing they screwed over on mine was the return label. They never included it in this box, so they had to ship me another via snail mail. I attribute that to the dingbat who took my phone call.

I was prepared to be calling for another monitor, but I'm satisfied for now. Hope you guys have as good a luck with yours. Let us know how things go.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Remember my request for some communication on this thread from NEC? I got a reply, and PMed the response to you Muse, TourGuide, and Gosharkss. Have a look.

 

[TourGuide]

THAT reply was a sell out. There should be nothing they're not willing to address and Faceless, you're right - we didn't pay for a messed up product.

 

[Muse]

It's amazing that the CS Rep would show you those comments. He's clearly not a person of conscience and he's not too smart to have shown you that. If I buy a Cadillac whose power windows aren't working, it still may be the best car I've ever had. That doesn't absolve the manufacturer from their responsibility to provide me with a working product. How much #$%@!^ gamesmanship do we have to employ here to get service? Well, that CS Rep is just one fish in NEC's pond. I'm sure there are people there with better morals.

My shipping label wasn't delivered to me yesterday, as I was told it would be. TourGuide, your experience with excellent text sharpness uniformity has me wanting to see the replacement. My uniformity leaves much to be desired. And there is that black pixel, and just the fact that the packing form was busted all the way through makes me nervous. A monitor shouldn't be treated that way.

 

[FacelessNobody]

They must put all the smarter people on phone duty. Everyone I've talked to at NEC over the phone has been very helpful. Personally, Gosharkss reply to that message is what has convinced me to RMA till satisfied. He said he wouldn't accept a monitor with a missing phosphor, and he's our monitor expert around here, so I'll take his advice. An enthusiast's computer is an ongoing project anyway, and I have time. Also, both of my monitors have had excellent text sharpness.