Problems with NEC FP2141SB 22 inch aperture grill displays

[Muse]

I just got my new monitor today via UPS: NEC FP2141SB-BK, ordered from
Dell. Presumably, this is the same monitor as the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro DP2060U. It's got a dead pixel about 3/8 inch below the top wire, almost 2
inches in from the left side. I've never noticed a dead pixel in a
monitor before. I've heard of them on laptops and LCD monitors but not
CRTs. Are these common in CRTs? It's very tiny but it's just plain
black. This has a Diamondtron tube, aperture grill, .24 dpi. Should I
complain about this and seek an RMA? Would you? Thanks for your help.

 

[heliomphalodon]

I'd just call up Dell and tell them that the monitor is defective. I doubt that they'll grill you on the exact nature of the defect. When I was unhappy with an LCD panel that I bought from them, they shipped me a brand-new one, no questions asked -- and the new one came complete with a pre-paid shipping label to return the defective unit.

Give Dell a chance to show you their great service. Just don't wait too long -- their "total satisfaction" guarantee last only 30 days from the invoice date, if I remember correctly...

 

[TourGuide]

Hey Muse,

I ordered from Dell too. You were actually the one who prompted me I believe with the other thread you were running. I just got off the phone with Dell about the geometry on my monitor. It wasn't what I expected so I asked for a replacement.

If I were you, I'd ask them to replace it. I personally could not live with that defect.

FWIW - Dell customer service is incredible. They'll ship you a replacement, you put the defective one in a box and call UPS or whomever the courier is and they come to get it. That is all there is to the process. They have a 100% customer satisfaction policy and I personally am totally impressed by this.

Good luck.

 

[JuicyFruit]

Totally. My P991 just gave out a few weeks ago. At the time you call, make sure you're at your computer. They're gonna want to troubleshoot over the phone with you.

They'll ship you a new one same day even. Put the old one in the box and call Airborne for a pickup.

Easy as cake.

 

[Muse]

bump

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
Hey Muse,

I ordered from Dell too. You were actually the one who prompted me I believe with the other thread you were running. I just got off the phone with Dell about the geometry on my monitor. It wasn't what I expected so I asked for a replacement.

If I were you, I'd ask them to replace it. I personally could not live with that defect.

FWIW - Dell customer service is incredible. They'll ship you a replacement, you put the defective one in a box and call UPS or whomever the courier is and they come to get it. That is all there is to the process. They have a 100% customer satisfaction policy and I personally am totally impressed by this.

Good luck.

Are you talking about the NEC FP2141SB here? It had bad geometry? The main reason I'm hesitant to seek an RMA on the monitor is that the only thing I know to be wrong with it at this point is that one dead pixel. Other than that, it's simply the greatest monitor I've ever used. I'm afraid that the replacement would be worse! That one tiny pixel is a very small problem. Since I know where it is, I notice it, but if I didn't know where it was I wouldn't. It looks like a spec of dust, black dust. Anyway, all of 4 people who responded to my post (3 here and one on a newsgroup) said that I should RMA it.

 

[Peter]

RMA it, this shouldn't be - particularly not in that spot where usually your application drop down their menus. When you do, mind that "Dead Pixel" is not the right term since CRTs don't have pixels. What you have there is a spot of dirt in the aperture mask or in the CRT glass itself.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Peter
RMA it, this shouldn't be - particularly not in that spot where usually your application drop down their menus. When you do, mind that "Dead Pixel" is not the right term since CRTs don't have pixels. What you have there is a spot of dirt in the aperture mask or in the CRT glass itself.

Thanks. I'm told: This happens due to missing phosphor material or an obstruction in the
grill.

I'm on the phone right now and they're setting up the exchange.

 

[b4u]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



... just kidding ... go ahead ...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: b4u
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



... just kidding ... go ahead ...

Oh, man, you scared me! LOL... Actually, 6 out of 6 people voted for RMA. It's all arranged! LOL...

 

[TourGuide]

Are you talking about the NEC FP2141SB here? It had bad geometry? The main reason I'm hesitant to seek an RMA on the monitor is that the only thing I know to be wrong with it at this point is that one dead pixel. Other than that, it's simply the greatest monitor I've ever used. I'm afraid that the replacement would be worse! That one tiny pixel is a very small problem. Since I know where it is, I notice it, but if I didn't know where it was I wouldn't. It looks like a spec of dust, black dust. Anyway, all of 4 people who responded to my post (3 here and one on a newsgroup) said that I should RMA it.

Yes this is the NEC FP2141SB. Yes, the geometry IS bad on it. By bad, I don't mean the worst I've ever seen, I just mean it can't be fully corrected through the controls. There is a bow in the vertical edges that simply cannot be fully compensated for no matter how much I mess with it.

I'm afraid that the replacement would be worse!

This is my fear too, and almost caused me to live with the defects, but dangit I paid $665 for this thing and I want it to be right. I've seen monitors with perfect geometry and that is what I want, or REALLY close to it. That is what I expected from this monitor.

I know tubes vary from monitor to monitor, I just didn't expect to get one I couldn't tune to perfection.

If it weren't for the geometry it IS the best monitor I've ever owned.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

Are you talking about the NEC FP2141SB here? It had bad geometry? The main reason I'm hesitant to seek an RMA on the monitor is that the only thing I know to be wrong with it at this point is that one dead pixel. Other than that, it's simply the greatest monitor I've ever used. I'm afraid that the replacement would be worse! That one tiny pixel is a very small problem. Since I know where it is, I notice it, but if I didn't know where it was I wouldn't. It looks like a spec of dust, black dust. Anyway, all of 4 people who responded to my post (3 here and one on a newsgroup) said that I should RMA it.

Yes this is the NEC FP2141SB. Yes, the geometry IS bad on it. By bad, I don't mean the worst I've ever seen, I just mean it can't be fully corrected through the controls. There is a bow in the vertical edges that simply cannot be fully compensated for no matter how much I mess with it.

I'm afraid that the replacement would be worse!

This is my fear too, and almost caused me to live with the defects, but dangit I paid $665 for this thing and I want it to be right. I've seen monitors with perfect geometry and that is what I want, or REALLY close to it. That is what I expected from this monitor.

I know tubes vary from monitor to monitor, I just didn't expect to get one I couldn't tune to perfection.

If it weren't for the geometry it IS the best monitor I've ever owned.

It IS a crapshoot. My pickup is scheduled so I have my fingers crossed on the next one, also the FP2141SB. You know, I could have lived with that tiny black speck. The geometry is pretty good out of the box and I haven't even tried to improve on it. My Nanao, now 7 years old, looks the same AFAIK as the day I took it out of the box except that I think it's a little dimmer, but still adequate for everything but motion stuff - DVD's, and games I guess. I couldn't tweak the geometry to perfection on the Nanao, but if I didn't know where to look for the small warp in the left vertical edge, I wouldn't notice. It's pretty close. However, there's no doubt that the NEC is a lot sharper than the Nanao. It's the sharpest CRT I've ever seen. I just noticed a few minutes ago that some areas of the screen are remarkably better than others. The middle bottom is nowhere near as sharp as the top 1/2 for text. I'm more likely to be reading in the upper portion of the screen, but it would be great if it were uniformly sharp. here are 2 or 3 very interesting customer reviews of the NEC-Mitsubishi Diamond Pro DP2060U, the immediate predecessor of this monitor. These reviews definitely factored into my decision to get the FP2141SB. Scroll down the page around 1/2 way and you will see the reviews.

I just realized something. I reread some of the reviews and one guy ("hui from los angeles, ca ") said that there's some moire that comes up in certain circumstances but he doesn't adjust it out because if he does, it causes a slight fuzziness with text. I had adjusted the moire earlier today, before noticing the lack of uniform sharpness of the text. I just removed the moire adjustment (reset it to 0.0), and the fuzziness went away. The text is sharp everywhere on the screen, nearly uniform. It is definitely sharper and more uniform than my Nanao, which was the best CRT I'd ever seen for text. I'm very impressed. I hate to send this off for that tiny black fleck. I just hope I don't wind up kicking myself.... LOL

I couldn't find a driver at the NEC/Mitsubishi website and couldn't find a monitor to choose in my Windows 2000. I downloaded and installed the Naviset software and then my monitor was properly designated in Device Manager. However, when I bring up the Naviset adjustment page in Display Properties it says "No DDC/CI monitor found." There's some help in the "i" tab saying what to check for if you get this, but I have been unable to resolve this. I tried both inputs on the monitor, I'm using the supplied cable, a BFG Asylum ti4200 video card, hardly legacy equipment, with the 40.41 nVidia driver (probably not the latest, but recent), which I figure should certainly support DDC/CI displays. I'm stumped on that one.

Edit: I just got an email reply from techsupport@necmisubishi.com, concerning my inquiry about not being able to find a driver for the monitor and was directed to this page. It's there. I'll try installing it and see if I still have no DDC/CI support. Nope, it still says "No DDC/CI monitor found." I sent off another inquiry to tech support at NEC/Mitsu.

 

[TourGuide]

couldn't find a monitor to choose in my Windows 2000

I just emailed you the Win XP driver that you pulled off that page. lol!

Sorry, just trying to be helpful. I find it odd that there wouldn't be a 2000 driver readily available. :/ I found it would run under XP with just the Plg and Play driver, but then you can only get 85 hz refresh and it is SO much nicer to be able to run 120 or 100 hz, at least to my eyes.

The text on my monitor is very sharp and uniform corner to corner. It is equally as good as the G520 I had until it developed the focus problem.

It almost made me want to cry with mine, because I knew within about 45 mintues of messing with mine that I couldn't live with the state of the geometry. I just REALLY hope that the next one is better geometry wise with everything else being equal.

Hey, did you know it's going to take 7-10 days for them to generate an order # on the RMA? The up side of that is that they're shipping it overnight. Cripes, I can only imagine what THAT would cost out of pocket. Probably close to $300. (no sh*z)

 

[FacelessNobody]

Hi Muse

I'm still waiting for FP2141SB #3 to arrive. Quality control for these tubes must be craptacular at best. The problems I've seen users have on the net so far (including the ones I have) are: Black dots (dead pixel, both of us have this, except I have six as opposed to your one), screwy vertical linearity (stretchy image, I had this), vertical lines (I had this, and no, not AG lines which are horizontal ), parts of the monitor flickering (me too), and TourGuide's geometry problems. I would expect much better for high-end products actually made in NEC's motherland Japan. TG you should definitely get another one, the geometry on both of the ones I've had so far has been perfect (except for linearity on monitor 1) and fully tunable for me.

 

[TourGuide]

TG you should definitely get another one, the geometry on both of the ones I've had so far has been perfect (except for linearity on monitor 1) and fully tunable for me.

OK, see that doesn't make me feel much better because everything was peachy except for the geometry. I now see a new order number for my return so it should be just a couple of days at most before mine is shipped. I'll update this thread with how it all turns out.

Fingers crossed on BOTH hands!!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Hi Muse

I'm still waiting for FP2141SB #3 to arrive. Quality control for these tubes must be craptacular at best. The problems I've seen users have on the net so far (including the ones I have) are: Black dots (dead pixel, both of us have this, except I have six as opposed to your one), screwy vertical linearity (stretchy image, I had this), vertical lines (I had this, and no, not AG lines which are horizontal ), parts of the monitor flickering (me too), and TourGuide's geometry problems. I would expect much better for high-end products actually made in NEC's motherland Japan. TG you should definitely get another one, the geometry on both of the ones I've had so far has been perfect (except for linearity on monitor 1) and fully tunable for me.

Where did you find others' complaints about theirs?

Ah, now this just feeds my malady. My worry is that I should really just keep this one with its TINY TINY flaw because the next one(s) will be worse! Oh no. I've actually been thinking, maybe, just maybe the replacement will arrive before they come to pick up the one I have now. If that's the case, I can send back the worse of the two. Maybe I should call them and tell them I can't keep my Tuesday morning appointment with Airborne Express when they bring me the sticker for the box. Actually, the rep I talked to repeated several times that I don't have to give them the box at that time. I can call them and have them pick it up later. This has me thinking. Honestly, if the one they send me now is worse, I just may decide to keep this one. I haven't gone over it with the fine toothed comb, but there's only one "off" pixel and the geometry looks at least as good as my Nanao and I haven't even futzed with it. The focus and convergence look darn good to me. That off pixel looks just like a tiny spec of dust, big deal. I wasn't able to find a single customer review for either the Mitsubishi 2070 or the NEC 2141 (same monitor, presumably).

 

[FacelessNobody]

Baaaaaahhhhhhh sh!t where did I find em? I failed to reproduce whatever search I made, but you know, I think it was a CAD forum! Also, I wonder how many other users are as picky as we are ?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

couldn't find a monitor to choose in my Windows 2000

I just emailed you the Win XP driver that you pulled off that page. lol!

Sorry, just trying to be helpful. I find it odd that there wouldn't be a 2000 driver readily available. :/ I found it would run under XP with just the Plg and Play driver, but then you can only get 85 hz refresh and it is SO much nicer to be able to run 120 or 100 hz, at least to my eyes.

The text on my monitor is very sharp and uniform corner to corner. It is equally as good as the G520 I had until it developed the focus problem.

It almost made me want to cry with mine, because I knew within about 45 mintues of messing with mine that I couldn't live with the state of the geometry. I just REALLY hope that the next one is better geometry wise with everything else being equal.

Hey, did you know it's going to take 7-10 days for them to generate an order # on the RMA? The up side of that is that they're shipping it overnight. Cripes, I can only imagine what THAT would cost out of pocket. Probably close to $300. (no sh*z)

I could only get 85 Hz in Win2000 with the Plug and Play monitor also. I ALWAYS notice 60 Hz and it bugs me bigtime, but anything over that doesn't really bother me. I don't know that I've ever used over 85 Hz, though, and who knows, I may prefer 100 or more if I try it.

Can you describe your geometry problems? I'm really curious what they are. Of course, if you cannot ignore them you HAD to RMA. Myself, I still find it a little hard to justify RMAing this monitor, but now particularly in light of the fact that my odds of getting a better replacement don't look especially good considering the experiences being reported in this thread.

Was anyone able to get the Naviset working? Mine still says "No DDC/CI monitor found."

I was thinking about the cost to them of RMAing. I can't believe that it just comes out of Dell's pocket. The faults are with NEC/Mitsu's monitors and they have to absorb a lot of the cost of RMA's. That's my thinking, although I have no facts to back that up.

 

[TourGuide]

Can you describe your geometry problems? I'm really curious what they are.

I'll try - There is a concave hook to the vertical edges of the screen that I cannot remove with any conceivable adjustment of the OSD. Every time I tweak one adjustment it @#%^'s up another aspect of the edge which I then cannot compensate for again.

The very best I could do with it is reasonably aligned on the left side of the screen (in general), and the right side has a lean in to the top margin. In addition the top of the screen (both sides) has the batman effect with hooked protrusions pointing to the outside of the screen.

I fully admit I am probably more sensitive to this than others may be, but dag-nabit, I want this sucker to be like that G520. I want to fool with the horizontal/vertical size and have it be perfect out-of-the-box! I just don't think this is too much to ask as other manufacturers are achieving this - I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Baaaaaahhhhhhh sh!t where did I find em? I failed to reproduce whatever search I made, but you know, I think it was a CAD forum! Also, I wonder how many other users are as picky as we are ?

Never heard of CAD forum before but I found it easy. Searching it I couldn't find anything on any monitors at all... Was it the NEC you saw reviewed or the Mitsu?

I'm going to have to consider keeping the one I have. I'll see if I can take a peak at another before I let the one I have out the door... Good luck, guys!

 

[FacelessNobody]

Naviset functions perfectly in WinXP Pro, which I guess doesn't help you much . Also, AND WE CAN'T PROVE THIS MEANS ANYTHING, a site I purchase computer parts from (www.pagecomputers.com) has pulled the following monitors off their main sales inventory: FP2141SB-BK, DP2070SB-BK, FP912SB-BK, and DP930SB-BK (I think it's 930). You can find them for sale if you search for them specifically, but it's strange that they're not on the "main" site. Again, this could be nothing and probably is, but it is suspicious, particularly because all those monitors are in the same family/design of CRTs. Maybe they've been getting assloads of returns? Who knows. I should stop trying to scare myself. They are in stock when you search for them specifically.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Ohh, no no no. CAD forums as in Computer Aided Drafting . You know, the professionals that these caliber monitors are meant for, instead of general users and gamers like me .

Oh hell, I see, you forgot an "a". Whoops .

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Naviset functions perfectly in WinXP Pro, which I guess doesn't help you much . Also, AND WE CAN'T PROVE THIS MEANS ANYTHING, a site I purchase computer parts from (www.pagecomputers.com) has pulled the following monitors off their main sales inventory: FP2141SB-BK, DP2070SB-BK, FP912SB-BK, and DP930SB-BK (I think it's 930). You can find them for sale if you search for them specifically, but it's strange that they're not on the "main" site. Again, this could be nothing and probably is, but it is suspicious, particularly because all those monitors are in the same family/design of CRTs. Maybe they've been getting assloads of returns? Who knows. I should stop trying to scare myself.

Hmmm... this calls for a full scale investigation. Actually, this is the type of info that doesn't always spread easily. Maybe I'll post in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video newsgroup. Maybe someone will have the inside dope, assuming there is any... like you say, it could just be our imagination... However, between us, how many of these have we looked at and still not found one without obvious defects? 4, right? And there's the ones you just read about on some forum. How many was that? Maybe the 2060 had better QC.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Yeah man this is strange. The research I did prior to this purchase was fairly deep, but it was also in the middle of November (and my current FP2141SB-BK was MADE in November ) so who knows what could've changed since then. My logic at the time was "since it's new, and it's predecessor was top notch, I assume it will be a top quality monitor, probably the best in it's class." I never found anything but isolated complaints now and then, and the monitor ran out of stock at sites often, so I figured all was well. Also, as an "unrelated" bit of info (unrelated at the time), I learned about a month ago that a large portion of the online e-tailers share a warehouse network, so if one runs out of stock (one site advertised this fact cause it DOES sound good), they all do. What I thought to be a large sales volume could have actually been very small. AND, I THINK, the FP/DP SuperBright series were built after the NEC-Mitsu merger, whereas the DP2060u was on sale before as a Mitsubishi only monitor. This is turning into some Sherlock Holmes type of thing. Pieces of info coming together. Perhaps there's an NEC bad QC conspiracy ? Oh well, if they shut us up with free displays for life, I won't argue .

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

Can you describe your geometry problems? I'm really curious what they are.

I'll try - There is a concave hook to the vertical edges of the screen that I cannot remove with any conceivable adjustment of the OSD. Every time I tweak one adjustment it @#%^'s up another aspect of the edge which I then cannot compensate for again.

The very best I could do with it is reasonably aligned on the left side of the screen (in general), and the right side has a lean in to the top margin. In addition the top of the screen (both sides) has the batman effect with hooked protrusions pointing to the outside of the screen.

I fully admit I am probably more sensitive to this than others may be, but dag-nabit, I want this sucker to be like that G520. I want to fool with the horizontal/vertical size and have it be perfect out-of-the-box! I just don't think this is too much to ask as other manufacturers are achieving this - I have seen it with my own eyes.

OK. You don't have this near an unshielded speaker, do you? I haven't done a thing with the geometry except moving the image left <---> right and up vs. down, and stretching/compressing horizontally and vertically. I don't see any geometry problems that motivate me to want to mess with the other controls just yet, although there's supposed to be rotation, trapezoidal (I think), pincushion (I think), and probably several others. You might try moving the monitor, believe it or not. Try rotating it's position, say 90 degrees and see if that has any effect. The earth's magnetic field can really affect a monitor's geometry. I read that aperture grill monitors are especially hard to find with perfect geometry, although the aberations you describe sound like more than minor imperfections.