Problems with PNY Ti4400 (long)

[QAGuy]

I am having problems that began with the installation a PNY Ti4400 in Windows 2000 Professional. What is happening is that the screen will blank out for a second occasionally, or lock up, or the computer will shut down unexpectedly.

MSI K7 Master mb (AGP Pro slot)
Enlight 300W PS

The fan on the video card heatsink is working.

The CPU/chassis temperature is in the high 50's/low 30's C (and while putting a house fan on the case will slightly lower the temp, it did not affect the problem).

I have tried many different versions of the Nvidia drivers: 27.42, 30.82, 41.09, 44.03, 52.16. I didn't get a lockup with 41.09, but it was only a short test compared to longer ones for the others and I was getting the blank outs and leftover bits of closed windows would sometimes remain on screen. I have tried several methods of removing drivers, including control panel uninstall, manual deletion of registry entries and program files, safe mode, etc...

The problem doesn't seem to occur when running in safe mode, but I have only tested this way for a short time.

PNY's web site refers to a blanking out problem and suggests at least a 300W PS, with a 350W one recommended. Also, that an AGP 2.0 slot is required. From what I (think I) know, the AGP Pro slot will work with AGP 2.0 cards. As far as I can tell, this slot will support AGP 1.0 and 2.0 cards physically AND electrically.

There is a yellow plastic tab in the AGP slot that reads "remove safety tab..." and the rest is obscured by the video card. Since I am typing on the referenced machine, I can't check if there is more written below that. *Should I remove this tab?* I'll check it out more closely next time I shut down the PC.

I haven't contacted PNY yet, but will do so if I cannot get this solved shortly.

*Does anyone have any ideas about the specific cause of my problems or what to do about it?*

Thanks!

 

[Rage187]

That sooo sounds like you need a bigger power supply.

400W's is cheap, pick one up.

 

[jiffylube1024]

It might be a PSU problem, but Enlight usually makes good power supplies. What are your voltage rails like (+3.3V, +5V, +12V) ? If they're considerably lower than their rated speeds it's the PSU.

It sounds like it could be your CPU - running in the high 50's is pretty hot. What kind of CPU do you have, and what kind of cooling?

About the AGP Pro slot - leave the tab on there - that's just for the extra pins needed on an AGP Pro card (no mainstream card made by either Nvidia or ATI uses AGP Pro). However, you might want to try reinstalling the video card into the slot to make sure it's perfectly aligned. AGP Pro slots are much larger, and it's easier to accidentally install the card so that it's not sitting in just perfectly.

I thought I fried my video card one time because it wouldn't post and gave me a weird beep code but it was just the video card was ever so slightly misaligned in the slot.

 

[QAGuy]

Rage187, thanks for the suggestion! Are their any PS that you like in particular?

Jiffylube1024, thanks for the reply! There is indeed rated Vo of 3.3, 5, and 12 and these register slightly lower in the bios, IIRC (i.e. 3.27, etc...). The 5V and 3.3V rails are listed on the PS as 165W max, 12V as 120W max...
The PS is listed as 300W max. Maybe it puts out lower sustained V.

The CPU is an AMD Athlon (Thunderbird) 1.2GHz @ 1.33GHz. I have been running this CPU for several years and it has never had a problem with this temperature (or even higher). The cooler is a Thermalright copper HS something or other (SK-6, IIRC) and some fan that was recommended as a match (low to mid 20's CFM, IIRC). The PC is upstairs in one of the warmest rooms in the house (the one I selected as my office due to it being prewired with a second phone line).

I will try reseating the card, as well.

 

[QAGuy]

Using the below link (thanks again, Nohr):

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

it seems like my PC requires ~ 283W minimum. Does this help any of the conclusions, especially the "better PS needed" one?

 

[Lonyo]

Personally a PSU problem sounds unlikely.
My PC "requires" 350w or so, and I have a 300w which has worked fine with both a Ti4400 and a 9800np.
This is with a higher powere consuming processor, probably more RAM as well.

Have you tried un-overclocking? I'm not sure of the specifics of your board, but if you're running the AGP out of spec. frequency it *might* cause an issue of some sort.
Maybe try upping the AGP voltage if it's possible on the board?

 

[QAGuy]

Okay, I've reseated the card and am now running the CPU and PCI bus at stock speed. Their is no setting that I saw in the BIOS for AGP bus speed, so I assume it was running based on a multiple of either the CPU (0.5) or PCI (2) bus clock.

Lowering the desktop color depth to 16 bit (from 32) has helped for some reason.

I won't know for a while if the problem is eliminated.

 

[Viper96720]

Video card is going down the toilet. I had a PNY 4400 that looked ok in 16bit color but bad in 32bit.

 

[QAGuy]

Since the problem is still occurring after upgrading 4n1 and BIOS, I have ordered another PS and will try it out when it arrives.

Does anyone else have any ideas?

 

[QAGuy]

I got and installed a new 550W power supply. I ordered a single fan 500W one and got the dual fan 550W version, but I'm not complaining. My old PS did not have a power connector for the AGP slot, while this new one does. I haven't had it long enough to say for certain that it has totally fixed the problems, but it seems like it has. It certainly has improved the system's stability. I will follow up in this thread if problems continue, but it looks like the 300W PS was just not cutting it.

Thanks again, Rage187.

 

[QAGuy]

The problems are continuing.

I was getting lockups in Win98 when loading saved games in Undying and the new power supply has helped with that.

The problems in Windows 2000 are continuing, though, and now seem to be occurring in Win98, too (dual boot PC).

So, right now it looks like I had several problems. The new PS helped solve one, but the blanking out and locking up are not only continuing, but getting worse. The getting worse part may be due to the fact that I have had to shut down Windows many times with the power button after hard lockups.

I have tried reinstalling service pack 4 for Win2K and reinstalling service pack 1 for IE6, but neither seems to have helped. Chkdsk finds no errors.

The lockups and blanking out do NOT seem to be occurring in Win2K safe mode with or without networking support. Would this indicate that the problem is a driver issue?

Any ideas?

 

[jiffylube1024]

It could very well be drivers, especially with you changing them so much. Have you tried a clean windows reinstall?

 

[MichaelZ]

the age old solution of *formatting* works best for me. i understand this is a pain in the Ahole but sometimes this is the only solution unless you want to buy new hardware without even knowing the problem

it sounded like a PSU problem but turns out it wasn't. i would suggest formatting ur PC and reinstalling the card to see what happens. IF this still happens after a format then we can conclude that the card is at fault and it's time for a upgrade. since you run 2 OS's and both have the same problem could mean your video card is faulty.

from experience, i've seen lots of people have problems with PNY Verto Ti's. just recently someone i know had a shorted out PNY Ti4200. at least they have lifetime replacement warranty...

 

[QAGuy]

Jiffylube and Lazyboy, thanks for the responses!

I have considered reinstalling some version of Windows, but have been avoiding it due to the inconvenience it would be.

I guess I should just get on with it.

 

[QAGuy]

I am still having blanking out and lockup problems after formatting and installing Windows XP (instead of 2000) and then 52.16.

It is difficult to predict when the problem will occur and whether it will be a momentary blank out or a lockup where the monitor will no longer detect the video signal (monitor's power LED changes from green to orange). It sometimes happens at startup or shutdown, when searching for files, when using IE, when in add/remove programs, etc...

Is it time to give up on this card or is there something else I should try?

 

[Keysplayr]

QA, do you have another computer, or a buddy with a PC you can try your 4400 in?
That would be the ultimate way to check if its your video card or your mobo. OS need not apply then.
If the problem persists in another machine, you know without a doubt that the vid card has gone south.
If the problem never happens, most likely its your mobo. I am ruling against OS problems because you dual boot and the problem
happens in both. Give that a try if you can.

Keys

 

[QAGuy]

Keys,

I do have another PC, but it is older than the one I am using now. It uses an Abit BM6 motherboard. I will have to look into what type of AGP slot it has, since PNY claims that an AGP 1.0 slot won't cut it.

That was the only reason I haven't tried the card in the older PC. But, I will try it out now.

Thanks!

p.s. I have also changed the AGP speed to 1x/2x (from 4x) in the BIOS to see if that helps with stability.

 

[Keysplayr]

Good Luck, let us know what happens.

Keys

 

[QAGuy]

I put the card in my other PC and it didn't have any problems after one day.

I moved the card back to my faster PC (with the AGP set at 1x/2x in the BIOS) and have not had any problems in a few hours. I will keep an eye on it for a while, but it looks like this card is fine, after all.

So, I will either run this card at 2x or get a new motherboard.

Thanks for the help, Keys and everyone else!