programming

[ding5550123]

I am trying to learn a programming language. I'm thinking JAVA. It's my first language. It needs to be free. It also needs to be compatible with XP. Witch is best?

 

[DaveSimmons]

What kind of programming?

C / C++ are used for application development more than C# or java. C# is used for a lot of corporate internal-use programs, java is used mostly for linux/othernix server-side development.

 

[beggerking]

goto microsoft.com and download visual studio express 2005
free

 

[mundane]

If you're doing this on your own, you're facing an uphill battle. All three of the languages varieties mentioned (C/C++, C#, and Java) have decent online guides for first-time programmers. I'd like to also put up a vote for Python. It's a very, very simple language to learn, and except for the white-space strictness, a very forgiving language. The downside is that you might pick up some practices that a) can't be easily applied to other languages or b) are bad form in those. With the addition of wxPython and wxWidgets, you can make graphical applications with surprising ease.

BTW, all languages mentioned so far in this thread are compatible with XP. And with the introduction of the Mono project (for C#), all can be used on *nix as well.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What kind of programming?

C / C++ are used for application development more than C# or java. C# is used for a lot of corporate internal-use programs, java is used mostly for linux/othernix server-side development.

Coming from a C++ developer with 18 years of experience, don't start there . There's a lot of threads here going into why in detail.

C# and Java are reasonable places to start. Visual Basic is even more reasonable. Python has been mentioned, and there's Ruby as well.

You want something high level where you can focus on program architecture, algorithms, flow control, branching, variables, etc., and not get swept up into complicated build environments and low-level constructs like pointers.

Pascal is also still a pretty good choice. It's always been my experience that the concepts you need to master translate well from one language to another. In my day-to-day work and farting around I am routinely flipping between C#, VB, Java, HTML, XML, CSS, and Javascript.

 

[IceBreakerG]

I'd say C#. C++ is used more, but it also had like a 30yr head start over C# too. So its an unfair comparison. But in all fairness, C# and java are based off of C++. I started out programming in VB4, then moved to VB6, then VB.NET, .NET 2003 and now .NET 2005. Since .NET 2.0 framework came out, i've kinda stopped programming in VB.NET and switched to C#. C# is a very nice programming language, and like beggerking said, just go to Microsoft's website, and you can get Visual Studio 2005 Express for free. Thats a great deal byself even if you don't plan to use every language (keep in mind, with vb.net and C# you can code asp.net pages with ease). Here's the link to the Visual Studio Express site:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx

 

[Stuxnet]

I agree that C# is a good place to start. I've slung Java, C#, and VB.NET professionally and I don't think Java is the best beginner's language now that .NET is as mature as it is. On the surface Java isn't difficult, but when you get into the nitty-gritty, .NET is simpler and more forgiving. I say C# simply because that seems to be the trend (over VB.NET), but it's not unreasonable to expect a developer to know both. Heck, they're practically the same language... syntax alone separates them (for the most part). A lot of developers make a huge fuss over which they should learn, when in fact, if you know one well, the other can be picked up in a matter of hours or days.

C#/VB.NET can be free. Visual Studio Express + SQL Express = no excuses.

 

[professor1942]

Another vote for C#... you can start with an introductory Java book though and switch over easily since the two languages are practically identical.

There's an excellent book by Barnes and Kolling out there (Objects First with Java) which does a good job of teaching OO concepts and basic programming principles. Once you've gone through that, you'll be able to figure stuff out on your own pretty easily.

C++ is a pain in the rear

 

[Stuxnet]

Professor brings up a good point. As a beginner, your primary goal right now should be forming a solid OO foundation. I can't tell you how many developers I've met (and work with), at all levels (junior to senior to leader) who have no OO understanding whatsoever. It's a real pain in the ass, and with the proper understanding of those concepts, you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the other code jockeys out there.

 

[beggerking]

vb.net vs c# is really a non issue.. they both compile to the same MSIL and run on the same CLR, so its basically the same language only depends on preference.

that said, vb is the more beginner friendly language and has some useful classes to help things out.

C# has a more widely adapted syntax ( as in jscript etc). Its case sensitive and that helps in making you a better programmer.

IMHO, you should start with vb.net then pick up C#.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Professor brings up a good point. As a beginner, your primary goal right now should be forming a solid OO foundation. I can't tell you how many developers I've met (and work with), at all levels (junior to senior to leader) who have no OO understanding whatsoever. It's a real pain in the ass, and with the proper understanding of those concepts, you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the other code jockeys out there.

Object-oriented concepts are important, but if the OP is just starting out then frankly it's not a big concern, imho. First, just about any popular language he chooses will have support for basic OO concepts at this point. It'll be there for him when he can grasp it. Second, until a beginner understands the basics of variables, stepwise execution, branching, operations, algorithms, and decomposition of a problem into functional/procedural elements and data, OO ideas will be more or less lost in the fog.

 

[Cooler]

C/C++. Once you learn this any other language is piece cake. C/C++ allows for high and low level accessed. (you can write in asm ect) . C# is another good choice but since it is made by Microsoft the standard is constantly changing and lack of few features such as multiple inheritances make it a turn off in my opinion. Of course C# has a lot of base classes for rapid window development. Java is nice too but most places I work with only use java as a last resort as it is indeed slower(not complied into binary untill runtime) and does not allow direct low level access at all.

 

[ding5550123]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What kind of programming?

C / C++ are used for application development more than C# or java. C# is used for a lot of corporate internal-use programs, java is used mostly for linux/othernix server-side development.

it's really just local apps for kepping tabs on stuff.

 

[ding5550123]

Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
If you're doing this on your own, you're facing an uphill battle. All three of the languages varieties mentioned (C/C++, C#, and Java) have decent online guides for first-time programmers. I'd like to also put up a vote for Python. It's a very, very simple language to learn, and except for the white-space strictness, a very forgiving language. The downside is that you might pick up some practices that a) can't be easily applied to other languages or b) are bad form in those. With the addition of wxPython and wxWidgets, you can make graphical applications with surprising ease.

BTW, all languages mentioned so far in this thread are compatible with XP. And with the introduction of the Mono project (for C#), all can be used on *nix as well.

I've tried Python but the online manual were confusing. (Might've looked in the wrong spot)

 

[notfred]

Online manuals for every language are going to be confusing if you don't know how to program.

 

[mundane]

Originally posted by: ding5550123

Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
If you're doing this on your own, you're facing an uphill battle. All three of the languages varieties mentioned (C/C++, C#, and Java) have decent online guides for first-time programmers. I'd like to also put up a vote for Python. It's a very, very simple language to learn, and except for the white-space strictness, a very forgiving language. The downside is that you might pick up some practices that a) can't be easily applied to other languages or b) are bad form in those. With the addition of wxPython and wxWidgets, you can make graphical applications with surprising ease.

BTW, all languages mentioned so far in this thread are compatible with XP. And with the introduction of the Mono project (for C#), all can be used on *nix as well.

I've tried Python but the online manual were confusing. (Might've looked in the wrong spot)

It can be confusing. If you're still motivated to try it, once you've downloaded and installed python, visit Getting Started to get the basic concepts. In a few hours, you'll know how to program in Python, or at least the syntax. The catch is there's still many, many libraries to learn and the appropriate programming patterns (but that's true of any language).

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What kind of programming?

C / C++ are used for application development more than C# or java. C# is used for a lot of corporate internal-use programs, java is used mostly for linux/othernix server-side development.

Java is also used on atleast one safety critical military system worked on. Albeit, as the GUI for it. Java is gaining ground there which is BIG!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

IMHO, learn Java.

Here is your development environment.
http://www.eclipse.org/

Go DL Java 1.5 (or is it 5 now???) and install

Profit.

Just learn a hello world program. Google is your friend

Afte you get the hang of it, you should then try out C/C++ or (fearrr) C#. C# is a crappy version of Java, just so you know. Just Microsoft trying to monopolize yet another industry.

You should atleast give C++ a whirl down the road just so you understand memmory alocation better.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Professor brings up a good point. As a beginner, your primary goal right now should be forming a solid OO foundation. I can't tell you how many developers I've met (and work with), at all levels (junior to senior to leader) who have no OO understanding whatsoever. It's a real pain in the ass, and with the proper understanding of those concepts, you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the other code jockeys out there.

Software sucks .. but it's the only field that is constantly evolving. It's not like a structural engineer that just needs to deal witha different materials different constants.

Anyways, alot of older programmers that did structured programming have a hard time coping with OO. It's not their fault really. They have kids alot of the time and families. Prioorities change is all. I should state that I was in schol as OO was just starting to take off (about 10 years ago). So I understand how hard it can be learning OO software first hand. I am a pro now though

Anyways, the point is true. You ned a firm grasp of OO, not a particular language. Go with Java because it's simply easier to learn and the concepts are what matter most. Once you understand hte OO concepts, learning a language is essentially a non-issue.

 

[fierydemise]

I just started learning C++ a few months ago from a book and I didn't have any problems getting into it, I did have a little experience with basic but I was basically starting from nothing. I haven't had any real problems picking up C++ so I'll vouch for it not being too tough.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

I'd personally encourage java as you wouldn't need to recompile or anything for cross-platform compatibility. Then I would be able to run it in linux.

Get Eclipse if you decide to go with java. Its an awesome ide.

 

[leggomyeggroll]

You probably want to begin with Java or C#. I wouldn't recommend VB, the syntax is a bit different in the sense that you don't use brackets to enclose scopes etc. But I also encourage you to learn C/C++ because you will gain a better understanding of memory management as Java and C# has a built in garbage collector. I know tons of people who've been spoiled with that feature and have no clue how variables and objects are stored or how references functions. Start off with learning the basic idea of how to program in a high level language, get Java it's easy and free and relatively easy to install and setting up the environment. Java's website also have a very useful API for you to look up.

 

[leggomyeggroll]

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
I'd personally encourage java as you wouldn't need to recompile or anything for cross-platform compatibility. Then I would be able to run it in linux.

Get Eclipse if you decide to go with java. Its an awesome ide.

actually i believe he should try textpad first before he jumps into getting a true IDE, right now he needs as much independent coding as possible

 

[Sunday Ironfoot]

Originally posted by: leggomyeggroll

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
I'd personally encourage java as you wouldn't need to recompile or anything for cross-platform compatibility. Then I would be able to run it in linux.

Get Eclipse if you decide to go with java. Its an awesome ide.

actually i believe he should try textpad first before he jumps into getting a true IDE, right now he needs as much independent coding as possible

I agree, complex IDEs hide away details that a beginner programmer needs to know, such as Servlets registration in the web.xml in Java web apps. And don't get me started on Wizards :disgust: For Java I'd recommend JCreator Lite (http://www.jcreator.com), it's basically a glorified text editor for Java.

IMO you should start with either Java 1.5 and C#.NET 2005, once you learn one it's fairly easy to transition over to the other. Both are fairly big players in the industry right now, so you'll stand a good chance of getting a job. Once you're proficiant in those then you could move onto low level C++ if you wanted to.