Project HTPC powerhouse

[rbV5]

After several small upgrades, I've decided its time to take my PC to new heights of entertainment.The big plan includes analog/digital audio and video recording/editing/viewing/listening, local and remote single player/multiplayer gaming and whatever else I come up with during the project. I have not married myself to any particular technology, and I want to look forward without holding back waiting for the next big thing. I'm familiar with most aspects, and capable of making about anything work as long as its actually possible, but am very interested in the thoughts of like-minded folks.

My simple requirements:

PC based system, x86 architecture. Best of class gaming performance, broadband connectivity, Digital/Analog Audio/Video capture and display/output, including HDTV and my guitars, digital camera and dv camcorder. High quality, large display over 50" diagonal capable of displaying 4:3 and more importantly Widescreen HD video as well as high resolution gaming. Sound system worthy of such a system. Multi-function remote, and overall user friendliness is also very important. I'm willing to including cutting-edge technology (obviously), but stability, usability and COST<--- are the major players here.

I regularly cruise here, AVSforum and Rage3d, and I already have a good idea of the components that are required. I just need your thoughts/helpful advice.....

Motherboard(s)? I like my ALI board but...This ASUS A7N8X (NFORCE2) looks like it may be the ticket?
CPU(s)? HS/F? My XP 1600? Alpha Pal is nice but, the delta fan is bit loud for HTPC....
Video Card? MY current AIW 7500 is notgunnadoit, AIW 9700 PRO Package is on the top of my list.
Capture Card(s)? MyHD MDP-100 HDTV card?
Antenna: Basic rooftop mount for OTA HD, Sat dish seems limited to few channels, already have digital cable for SD...but?
Video Display(s)? Leaning toward LCD projector (Sony VPL-HS10) and DIY screen, but this the key to the whole show, so...?
Soundcard(s)? Terratec dm6 fire would be nice for recording my guitar.....
OS? I like XP pro.
Speakers? They gotta be better than my z560's or why bother
Case? My Antec, she's nice...loud, big..but nice...300 watt antec smart power maybe a bit light?
Storage? My Maxtor RAID array works well, but.....
Cables?
Digital Camera? I'm lost here.
dv Camcorder? I love my Dad's Sony TR-v9, but the canon ZR40 looks more my budget.
Mouse/keyboard? I like my Logitech cordless desktop pro, but....
Other/forgetting?

Budget $0 to $10,000 US Dollars (cheaper is better says the wife) (must work says me)

 

[freeflap]

having just helped a friend do this, I can offer some insight.

Case: coolermaster 600 / 630 for a match to your audio components.

board: Gigabyte 7vaxp (but any with built in 6 channel audio and s/pdif out will do.)

processor: athlon 2000+ is more than enough

Video: agree with aiw 9700 pro, especially if games are important to you. if not, just get a Geforce 4200 and the haupauge.

HD decoder: haupauge has one that was reviewed by stereophile's ht mag. got positive reviews.

projector: if you watch DVD primarily, then get the Infocus screenplay 110. Absolutely amazing pic from dvd. Native 16:9 DLP projector. great color and contrast. 1000 lumens is ok if your room can be made very dark. They have a new projector called the X1, but it's not out yet. should be interesting since MSRP is $1700!! a steal. If you are more interested in HD, then the Sanyo PLV-70 is the best on the market. Big bucks though, 6k+.

screen: Da lite high contrast cinemavision. You can buy this by the square foot from bhphotovideo. Frame it yourself on 2x1 boards with a staple gun and suspend on the wall. you will have a 10 foot dia screen for ~ $300.

a/v receiver: denon, Harman kardon, onkyo, all good choices.

Audigy2 platinum EX if recording is important to you. it will record in 24 bit / 96k

DIW speakers are a great way to get amazing sound on a tight budget. remember, retail speakers are marked up 500%-1000% the cost of the raw materials. try www.speakerpage.com for kits. You will need to have some basic woodworking skills. I have the towers. Total cost was under $300 per pair, and they sound better than speakers in the 1500-2000 price range. I can email pics if you are interested.

digital camera: canon G3, Nikon 5700 are both excellent options. I have the G1 and am still very happy with it.

hope that helps.

 

[rbV5]

Hey thanks freeflap, your help is appreciated, especially since you just threw one together.

My room is adjacent to my kitchen, so it will have plenty of light at times. I will have normal direct view displays however, for the majority of gaming and everyday SD/VHS TV watching. The room will be able to be completely darkened at any time however, and the widescreen display will be for HDTV, movies, and some gaming..maybe browsing? as well. Its my place and I'm going to be doing some serious remodeling here, so I'll be getting the digi-cams first to document my little project, and I've got no real restraint as far as design/time goes and the wife is on board so, it needs to be impressive enough to make it worth it to me (it will be hehe).

That canon G3 looks impressive!

 

[HendrixFan]

For video capture, the Telemann Hipix DTV 200 gets rave reviews from the HT Forums I have browsed through in the past. It has been on my list of HT upgrades for whenever I get done with college, unless something better comes along.

For recording, I think the Terratec is a fine choice, much better than the Audigy. The DSP is much better than the Audigy, and I would assume the DACs are as well. Until the M-Audio Revolution comes out, I would think the Terratec is the best all in one solution for people looking for surround sound DVDs and gaming, and also for recording.

I would also suggest getting a XP 1600 if you can find one of the AGIOAs or ARIOAs. You can overlock them to XP 2100 speeds, and in most cases, UNDERVOLT it while you do so. THat would allow you to get a Thermalright AX-7 with a quiet fan, so your CPU doesnt disturb your audio experience.

 

[bearxor]

Im going to take a depature here and totally suggest one of the P4 Shuttle boxes.

Lets face it, Socket A is going away. Get a P4, and you'll be able to upgrade processors for years, where as Athlons will most likely not be made after 2003 (available perhaps, but not scaling in clock speed anymore), plus the small square case will definitely look better than some old PC in a Home Thater setup, and a black one would look great stacked under a black gamecube .

Just think, you'd have two ATI chips on top of another

Personally, I'm kind of holding my breath for an announcement of a Radeon 9500 Pro AIW

 

[rbV5]

Yea, Line6 POD into the Terratec will be sweet methinks. Small case is not needed, all my components will be built into the side wall in nice custom Oak cabinets, and into a custom coffee table/Display/playing surface in front of the Couch, all out of site. I'm not considering upgrade path because the technology changes rapidly enough, and I've got 5 kids waiting for hand me downs for my old stuff, Intel setup isn't out of the question however, but it'll be hard to top getting a quieter fan, a XP 2700/2800 and some corsair ram if I feel the need for more performance initially.

My main concerns are: Using DVI for my projector connection with a single head card, A projector with HDCP DVI connector for future MPAA BS, and a HDTV PC card that works well with OTA signals in Windows XP.

Thanks for the input btw, keep it coming

 

[freeflap]

correct me if I'm wrong, but DVI has severe length restrictions. VGA will still give you great pic and most LCD projectors have inputs for VGA and can handle significantly longer leads. Otherwise, you will have to place LCD near HTPC.

 

[laugh]

audigy is for gaming. for HTPC, totally stay away from the cheap Creative line.

Get midiman or Turtle Beach if you want some entry level sound. $200 can get a nice card.

Talking about "HTPC powerhouse", first you need a good ROOM with good WALLS!

Next, a good receiver. Next, a set of good floor stand speakers.

Next, some good cables -- it'll cost you a fortune.

Frankly, AMD is bad choice for HTPC. You never can build a real quiet PC based on AMD. I run my HTPC on TUSL-2 w/ 1G Tualatin, 235W power supply, it's very quiet, but still some noise. I don't need very fast speed for watching Divx and DVD, so Tualatin is good enough, and if I really need speed, I can o/c it to 1.3G which runs close to P4 2G according to Sisoft Sandra.

Anyway, just some random thoughts...

 

[rbV5]

correct me if I'm wrong, but DVI has severe length restrictions.

I'm hearing 5 meters for maximum resolution, which will work fine, the HTPC will be located ~1/2 between the projector and the coffee table/console, but I'll be researching that to be sure.

Get midiman or Turtle Beach if you want some entry level sound. $200 can get a nice card.

Actually, I'm starting to look at building it around the N-Force 2, the ASUS deluxe model I was looking at earlier today looks sweet, and the onboard sound looks like it has potential. As far as noise, the components will be mounted in a wood cabinet with a remote fan supplying the cooling other than the CPU and Video card. This will be used for timeshifting and video/audio encoding/editing and best of class gaming, so whether Intel or AMD, 1 or even 2 GHz isn't going to do it.no..no..no

I'm not looking at recreating a movie theater, this is for entertainment of all kinds, at all hours and is located in the middle of everything at my house.

 

[syf3r]

I'm actually in the process of putting a very similar machine together.. The uses I'm planning for this machine include DV capture from mini-dv cam, dv-editing, audio-capture, audio editing, dvd authoring and viewing out to tv, high-end audio filtering, audio/video out to an AV receiver, etc. The machine's primary master drive will be one of those genica removable drivebays from compgeeks.com. That way I can have a 40Gb drive in a pullout, and have it set up to multi-boot different OS's tweaked for audio and/or video editing, or simple dvd/music/game playing. Here's what I'm planning so far:

case: Chenbro (I think) servercase. This is the link to it, not sure if the manuf is Chenbro

motherboard: Tyan Thunder i7500 s2720 (though I'm still researching this. Perhaps the Tyan Thunder i860 or something else).

proc(s): 2x Intel P4 Xeon 2200

memory: 2x512Mb RIMM

video: ATI 8500DV (but I still need advice on the video card) I need the tv-tuner and it must have strong capture capabilities... My primary needs for video are the ability to compress to MPEG-2 and also to capture from cable tv at high-resolution. Anyone with suggestions, please throw them in... I'd rather do one card, as opposed to a video card and a hauppauge or something like that, but in the end it's the quality I'm looking for, so I'm open to the idea of a separate, solid, capture card.

audio 1: STAudio DSP24 Media 7.1. This is a 7.1 decoder card with a breakout box. I'll include the specs here because they're just too insane to leave out:
2 simultaneous analog input channels, 24bit/96kHz
8 simultaneous analog output channels, 24bit/96kHz
AKM4529 ADC/DAC >100dB S/N ratio (a-weighted)
2 channel S/PDIF I/O (optical + coaxial), 24it/96kHz
total 4 audio input channels and 10 audio output channels
MIDI I/O (one 16 channel input, one 16 channel output)
onboard hardware synthesizer (DREAM / Roland GS soundset)
built-in internal soundcard (AC-97 Codec): CD In, Aux In, Headphone
connectors on frontpanel (9.5" box):
1/4" headphone output with adjustable gain
1/4" balanced microphone input with adjustable gain
switchable 48V phantom power support
2 RCA connectors (Line or Phono/RIAA input)
switch to select Line/Phono input signal
optical & coaxial S/PDIF I/O
connectors on backside (9.5" box):
MIDI I/O (DIN)
25pin D-SUB connector to PCI-card
8 RCA output channels
3 1/8" outputs for channel 1~6
connectors on PCI-card:
mic in (for PC-microphones)
1/8" line in to connect onboard soundcard or TV card
25pin D-SUB connector to ext. box
2 internal anlog inputs (CD / Aux)

audio 2: probably some turtle beach or maybe a soundblaster card of some kind. Haven't thought this one through yet but it will be used primarily for the lower-end stuff like listening to music and playing dvd's and an occasional game, and for monitoring the primary sound card.

Contrary to what freeflap stated above, the audigy does not record at 24bit. It's one of those little things they don't tell you about in their specs. Creative has always been shady about their specs and ratings on their cards. The Audigy cards record at a max of 16, and play at a max of 24. The STAudio 7.1 plays and records at 24. It's also got a built-in line level amp so if you're like me and have a big vinyl collection, you can plug your turntable right into the computer and capture at line-level.

storage: 2x 100Gb drives for video editing, and the 40Gb pullout mentioned above.

mmedia 1: CD-RW for starters, which I already have, and which I'll replace with a DVD-RW about 3 months later, or as soon as affordable.
mmedia 2: DVD-ROM drive


So, whatcha'all think...?

/syf3r

 

[rbV5]

syf3r, I'm glad you mentioned the burner, I'll be adding a DVD burner (unkown) and "perhaps" a D-VHS for recording the HD stuff, although I may wait a bit for prices to get more reasonable.

I'm aware of the Audigy 2's 24>16>24 recording, but I don't buy into the "Creative bashing" hoohaw, I use my SB Live currently to record my guitar with Cakewalk Sonar, and it works very good....till now, of course.

also to capture from cable tv at high-resolution

LOL, unless you're talking HD, there is no "high-resolution" cable TV, but the 8500dv will handle full resolution NTSC/PAL very easily, and MPEG-2 captures are excellent with MMC (your proposed hardware will handle it easily) however, all the AIW Radeon cards will do that, the 8500 dv adds firewire....the AIW 8500 adds 128MB memory and performs on par with the regular 8500 card.

I notice you don't mention a display, not driving a home theater display?

 

[syf3r]

Not really bashing Creative, just stating fact. I actually emailed them once a few years bck when the first Live! series boards were current, asking them what the exact specs were for that series in terms of S/N, THD, etc. No specs were listed on the site, for any of their cards until the last 2 years. Before that time it was all "superior sound quality" and "unrivaled clarity" which, really, doesn't mean much to me. So I asked them what the exact specs were, and got a form-reply repeating promises of "superior sound quality" and so forth.
Anyway, yeah, I realize the 'high-resolution cable signal' stuff sounds funny. I was writing that at around 3 in the morning, and was bound to lose it somewhere along the way. I did, in fact, mean full-resolution NTSC signal capture. This machine will be used mainly for dv and audio editing, more of a postproduction rig than the theater features you are aiming for, but it will be fully integrated into my current home theater setup which is, admittedly, in need of some upgrading starting with the receiver. That's going to be the next project after this machine is fully up and running, and once I can budget it. I wish I could do the whole thing in one shot but it's not possible. I'm hoping that by waiting I'll be able to find a solid receiver that will handle the 7.1 that the computer will be capable of. So for now, you're right, my only display from the machine will be a television and a monitor. Once I can afford a larger screen I will upgrade, but I've got to do this in pieces. The computer is going to be costing in the mid-2k's and that's all I can do for the moment, but I think I'll have a pretty capable post rig that, with the pullout master drive, can be easily converted into a machine geared for games, music and movies simply by swapping the maindrive.
So anyway, yeah, my goals for the machine are not as broad as yours in the short-term. The real home theater integration will come later. I want to gain experience with video post first, and then build a high-end system around the editing rig.


/syf3r

 

[Baronz]

Originally posted by: bearxor
Im going to take a depature here and totally suggest one of the P4 Shuttle boxes.

Lets face it, Socket A is going away. Get a P4, and you'll be able to upgrade processors for years, where as Athlons will most likely not be made after 2003 (available perhaps, but not scaling in clock speed anymore), plus the small square case will definitely look better than some old PC in a Home Thater setup, and a black one would look great stacked under a black gamecube .

Just think, you'd have two ATI chips on top of another

Personally, I'm kind of holding my breath for an announcement of a Radeon 9500 Pro AIW

I believe the P4 socket design is supposed to change around when they hit 4ghz, so it's not going to be forever.

I think both designs will have about the same lifespan.

You also can't fit a 9700 or geforce 4 into one of those little boxes.

 

[rbV5]

The Sony VPL-HS10 projector seems to fit the bill, they are just now starting to arrive here in the states.

 

[rbV5]

I purchased and installed the MyHD MDP-100 HDTV capture card. I'm awaiting my antenna to pull in the OTA HD broadcast. It also has an analog tuner, and had no installation trouble, and exists alongside the current AIW so far(I haven't completely put them through the paces). I'll do a mini review once I've installed the antenna and configured the digital tuner if anyone is interested.

 

[Lizardman]

I am putting together a HTPC too. I was wondering what software do you guys use to capture video from your TV tuner. Also do you know of any good programs which can schedule times to record shows like a tivo does. I just feel that that the software that comes with the happauge wintv card isnt very good. Plus I cant get it to work properly.

The main goal of my box is just to record TV shows and movies.

 

[777php]

I'm putting together a HTPC with the upcoming Shuttle SN41 SFF PC and using a Radeon AIW 8500 as my capture card. As for software I am either going with Snapstream for PC or Freevo for Linux. I'm not sure which one I am going to implement yet.

 

[Lizardman]

thanks for info on the software 777 I am checking out Snapstream now.

 

[rbV5]

I have seen HDTV and it is good.....got my antenna (Channel Master STEALTHtenna) and just hooked it up in my living room. There are 7 stations broadcasting digital TV in the Portland area(plus a couple duplicates), but still in its infancy so broadcasting is inconsistent...but....OMG, the IQ is just fantastic on my monitor(wish it were widescreen, or an apple cinema display) Watched Frasier in HD and it was great quality, then some PBS documentry that looked to be upconverted to 1080i (still nice). Fox was kinda iffy, and looks like they are broadcasting 480p (when it came in, it look pretty good, and the aspect ration was correct for full screen 4:3)

So far, I'm impressed. Need to get the antenna up in the air (wife says to get it out the family room) AIW 9700 pro is in Portland awaiting delivery by FEDEX, and I'm still on the fence for the rest of my components.

 

[codehack2]

Originally posted by: rbV5
After several small upgrades, I've decided its time to take my PC to new heights of entertainment.The big plan includes analog/digital audio and video recording/editing/viewing/listening, local and remote single player/multiplayer gaming and whatever else I come up with during the project. I have not married myself to any particular technology, and I want to look forward without holding back waiting for the next big thing. I'm familiar with most aspects, and capable of making about anything work as long as its actually possible, but am very interested in the thoughts of like-minded folks.

My simple requirements:

PC based system, x86 architecture. Best of class gaming performance, broadband connectivity, Digital/Analog Audio/Video capture and display/output, including HDTV and my guitars, digital camera and dv camcorder. High quality, large display over 50" diagonal capable of displaying 4:3 and more importantly Widescreen HD video as well as high resolution gaming. Sound system worthy of such a system. Multi-function remote, and overall user friendliness is also very important. I'm willing to including cutting-edge technology (obviously), but stability, usability and COST<--- are the major players here.

I regularly cruise here, AVSforum and Rage3d, and I already have a good idea of the components that are required. I just need your thoughts/helpful advice.....

Motherboard(s)? I like my ALI board but...This ASUS A7N8X (NFORCE2) looks like it may be the ticket?
CPU(s)? HS/F? My XP 1600? Alpha Pal is nice but, the delta fan is bit loud for HTPC....
Video Card? MY current AIW 7500 is notgunnadoit, AIW 9700 PRO Package is on the top of my list.
Capture Card(s)? MyHD MDP-100 HDTV card?
Antenna: Basic rooftop mount for OTA HD, Sat dish seems limited to few channels, already have digital cable for SD...but?
Video Display(s)? Leaning toward LCD projector (Sony VPL-HS10) and DIY screen, but this the key to the whole show, so...?
Soundcard(s)? Terratec dm6 fire would be nice for recording my guitar.....
OS? I like XP pro.
Speakers? They gotta be better than my z560's or why bother
Case? My Antec, she's nice...loud, big..but nice...300 watt antec smart power maybe a bit light?
Storage? My Maxtor RAID array works well, but.....
Cables?
Digital Camera? I'm lost here.
dv Camcorder? I love my Dad's Sony TR-v9, but the canon ZR40 looks more my budget.
Mouse/keyboard? I like my Logitech cordless desktop pro, but....
Other/forgetting?

Budget $0 to $10,000 US Dollars (cheaper is better says the wife) (must work says me)

A couple of items here seem to contradict each other...

1) Why go Nforce 2 if your looking at another add in sound card? Yeah, Dual Channel DDR is nice and all, but it's not all that utilized on the AMD platforms (i.e. lack of CPU bandwidth).

2) From the comment "High quality, large display over 50" diagonal capable of displaying 4:3 and more importantly Widescreen HD video as well as high resolution gaming"... I take it that you are going to be using this setup on an HDTV. Why pair this with PC speakers (i.e. logitech z560)? Take $2000 of that $10000 budget and get yourself a good reciever and speakers.

Just my $.02... but I'd go for the Shuttle XPC based off of the Nforce 2 (when availible, or go with the Shuttle XPC SB51G & a P4), add in an XP 2400+ , 512mb of PC2700, a big fat WD 200GB HD, a Sony DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW Drive, a AIW 9700pro with the component out adapter, a HDTV tuner card of your choice, a copy of XP Home/pro, a copy of ShowShifter (HTPC Interface Program) and finally add in an ATI Remote Wonder.

Good Luck,
CH2

 

[step-dawg]

Acutally, the Audigy 2 does do real 24bit recording. The older Audigy 1 did the 24>16>24. Check out this review on Tom's Hardware

The Audigy 2 Platinum eX is definately something you could consider.

 

[rbV5]

1) Why go Nforce 2 if your looking at another add in sound card?

I want a pro level card for recording, the terratec card fits the bill, but not particlarly good for gaming which of course the n-Force should be excellent, if the onboard handles recording as well, no need for the extra soundcard, and maybe I can live without the breakout box. The nForce 2 board allows me to do that, I've never even installed the driver for the onboard sound of my IWILL board. Most everything I've seen on the A7N8X looks good to me, the dual nics will come in handy.
Q]Why pair this with PC speakers (i.e. logitech z560)? Take $2000 of that $10000 budget and get yourself a good reciever and speakers.[/quote]
Fact is, the z560's are excellent gaming speakers, and do 4.1 for DVD's pretty fair as well, so I'll be able to suffer through. I want something exceptionally better. I'm in no big hurry, and the sound side will be more of a DIY than the video side. We'll start out with the basic Philips model they threw in with the Philips 55PP9352 Display we sprung for this weekend. The projector I'm looking at isn't readily available yet, and lighting issues turned us toward the RPTV instead for now.

I may go with the shuttle setup yet. I was checking them out in Fry's yesterday, and they can look pretty sweet! I'm just installing my components on my current rig now anyway to test everything out (My AIW 9700 Pro Retail just got here via FEDEX as we speak) They're not delivering the display untill Christmas, I wont even start ripping into the remodel untill after that..I've got some time.

The Audigy 2 Platinum eX is definately something you could consider

Hey cool, thanks for that.

 

[codehack2]

Computer speakers in the living room would be tough for me... I've just gone through the process of completely gutting and rebuilding my Home Theater setup (New 57" 16:9 HDTV, New THX reciever, New progressive scan DVD Player, New CD/MP3 Changer, New Speakers, all new cabling etc.). On the speaker side I started with a $299 Onkyo (HT in a box) 5.1 Setup. Wasn't statisfied and returned it after a week for a $700 JBL (HT in a box) 5.1 Setup. Wasn't satisfied and returned it after a week and ended up spending about $1700 on custom JBL Studio Series 5.1 setup. Now I'm happy... very happy The logitech's are great, I own the Z680's and love them.... for my office. A true HT Audio setup is a whole new league. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't sell yourself short in audio arena... If your doing a true HT setup, which it sounds like you are, do it right the 1st time.

Good Luck,
CH2

 

[rbV5]

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't sell yourself short in audio arena... If your doing a true HT setup, which it sounds like you are, do it right the 1st time.

Agree totally, sound is next after video. I want to get the right components the first time, so I'll be spending a bit of time to research.
AIW installation was a breeze, everything seems ok. Time for a little gaming break methinks! (I quickly ran it though UT, 4x FSAA 16 tap everything maxed OpenGL 6218 drivers...Ohh man) Capture works fine, lots of new stuff to check out in MMC8...sweet.

 

[codehack2]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't sell yourself short in audio arena... If your doing a true HT setup, which it sounds like you are, do it right the 1st time.

Agree totally, sound is next after video. I want to get the right components the first time, so I'll be spending a bit of time to research.
AIW installation was a breeze, everything seems ok. Time for a little gaming break methinks! (I quickly ran it though UT, 4x FSAA 16 tap everything maxed OpenGL 6218 drivers...Ohh man) Capture works fine, lots of new stuff to check out in MMC8...sweet.

I'll make one more recommendation on telling you how to spend your money and then I'm done

Make sure you set aside $80 for; AVIA Home Theater Calibration DVD($40) & a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter($35).

I just ran through my setup and calibrated both audio levels and video settings and let me tell you before & after is like night and day. The AVIA DVD is an unbelievable asset for the Home Theater nut.

Drop me a PM and let me know how the whole setup goes... outside of PC's... I'm HomeTheate A/V freak

Also, I'd just like to go on record as saying that the current crop of HDTV's (Projectors too), are the second coming for Home Theaters. Price point and features have finally hit the sweet spot.

CH2